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Chronos
 
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 20 on 10/2/2006 5:49 PM >
|  | | | Posted by ryanxpromise
In case you didnt know, you can be charged with B and E regardless of how you get in a building. If its walking in an open door or climbing in an window or cutting a lock off, if your in there fucking around where your not supposed to its b and e. If your on the PROPERTY surrounding the structure and its posted THATS trespassing. So dont kid yourself your breaking in to a building no matter how you look at it. Lastly there is nothing wrong with cutting off a pad lock if thats the only way you can find in. If you explore by means of "If i cant find a open door or window then I dont go in" then thats you. Not everyone lives by this made up b and e ethics code.
Ps if this sounds jerky I apologize, just saying what I think and sometimes I can come off as a jerk.
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That's not necessarily true, it varies from place to place. In general, yes, if you open an unlocked door you can be charged with b&e.
I know not everyone has the same ethics here, but I was going by ethics that I thought were pretty basic and also are posted on this site.
Genuine urban explorers never vandalize, steal or damage anything...
While it's true that some aspects of the hobby happen to be illegal, it's important not to confuse the words "illegal" and "immoral".
So yes, cutting off a lock is unethical. I don't see how somone could dispute that.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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blackhawk
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| |  | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 21 on 10/2/2006 8:38 PM >
|  | | | If building's abandoned, opening a door without tools or force will not result in a B&E charge if no other crime is commit such as vandalism or theft. Occupied active sites are another matter. Any tools on your person can prove to be an expensive liability. Tools show intent to force entry and premeditation to commit a crime.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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ryan
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| |  | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 22 on 10/4/2006 3:33 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
If building's abandoned, opening a door without tools or force will not result in a B&E charge if no other crime is commit such as vandalism or theft. Occupied active sites are another matter. Any tools on your person can prove to be an expensive liability. Tools show intent to force entry and premeditation to commit a crime.
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Tell that to the new bedford police dept, and court system.
I climb stuff!
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blackhawk
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| | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 23 on 10/4/2006 4:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by ryanxpromise
Tell that to the new bedford police dept, and court system.
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Not familiar with that penal code, and don't really get up that way. Normally cops are reluctant to charge someone with a felony unless they feel it's warranted. I know of state properties that have been vandalised by looters, and though felony charges were brought against them it was for the amount of theft, and for burglary, but not B&E as there was no forced entry.
I'm curious under what circumstances you've seen this happen in regard to abandoned buildings (electric off, etc)?
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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yoviher
 
location:
Puerto Rico
| | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 24 on 10/4/2006 8:37 PM >
| | | | I'm not familiar with the other penal codes, but the Puerto Rican penal code defines B & E the following way:
Any person who penetrates a house, building, or other construction or structure, or its dependencies or anexxes, with the purpose of comitting any crime of illegal appropiation or any felony will incur a misdemeanor.
Misdemeanor = fine and/or 90 days community service.
However, it turns into "aggravated breaking & entering" if its in an occupied building, and thus a third degree felony.
Third Degree Felony = between 3 to 8 years of prison.
Trespassing is also a misdemeanor.
It seems as in the Puerto Rican case it all depends on wether its an active or abandoned site. However, thats assuming you are charged.
Wether the dimwit cop who catches you red handed decides to arrest you and bring you in, depends on your first impression. He won't go easy on you if you are in a ninja suit with a six inch long knife.
Check your state's laws.
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 25 on 10/4/2006 9:34 PM >
| | | | what it breaks down to is more then likely how much paperwork the cop feels like doing.. technically if you have a screw driver on you they can have more then enough cause to charge you with B&E through intent because they can argue (and charge you) with possession of burglary tools.. normally I just bank on the laziness of cops, most cops don't wanna create a small shitstorm (for them and you) for some punk kid found in a run down/abandon warehouse.. but I am sure they have the option to charge you if they want.. or at least can charge you with enough BS to make it work
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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ryan
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| | | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 26 on 10/4/2006 10:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Not familiar with that penal code, and don't really get up that way. Normally cops are reluctant to charge someone with a felony unless they feel it's warranted. I know of state properties that have been vandalised by looters, and though felony charges were brought against them it was for the amount of theft, and for burglary, but not B&E as there was no forced entry.
I'm curious under what circumstances you've seen this happen in regard to abandoned buildings (electric off, etc)?
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Me abandoned house. Taking exteriors. Door was open I was next to it cops charged me with breaking and entering. Its weird because it was only a door to a porch there was no entry door open and none by me at all. Ma is lame.
I climb stuff!
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blackhawk
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| | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 27 on 10/4/2006 11:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by ryanxpromise
Me abandoned house. Taking exteriors. Door was open I was next to it cops charged me with breaking and entering. Its weird because it was only a door to a porch there was no entry door open and none by me at all. Ma is lame.
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That kind of shit fucks with your head, which sounds like that's what was intended. Once bitten, twice shy.
Did it stick in court? Did the prosecutor drop the B&E charges. Was it posted, and if so they stick you with a defiant trespass? Was the house a "hotspot" or the owner head hunting? I think your smart enough not to piss off cops, but they just arrested you right off the get go with the B&E charge?
Let me guess, they ended up dropping all charges, or they "nailed" you with a municipal trespass.
I'm always polite and nice with cops except on very rare occasions...to minimize the pain for everyone involved, especially me!
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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ryan
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| | | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 28 on 10/5/2006 2:37 PM >
| | | | Have not gone back for it. It probably wont stick because theres no proof of anything and there was no signs saying I couldnt be on the property. It just sucks because the area it was in the cops are notorious for bullshit like that. The owner was a cunt too.
I climb stuff!
Remember! Shop smart. Shop S-Mart \http://www.myspace.com/xitstheendx |
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blackhawk
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| | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 29 on 10/5/2006 3:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by ryanxpromise
Have not gone back for it. It probably wont stick because theres no proof of anything and there was no signs saying I couldnt be on the property. It just sucks because the area it was in the cops are notorious for bullshit like that. The owner was a cunt too.
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Sorry to hear that. It can be stressful and expensive. The owner is the one that most likely produced that reaction.
At the preliminary hearing you don't need a lawyer, and you can ask the officer in charge and/or the prosecutor to reduce the charges. Be humble and polite, as I'm sure you have been, and again explain you did mean to start such a fuss. You only were practicing your hobby of photography. Let him know you concern with having a misdemeanor on your record, even though this is a felony. Your goal is to reduce the charges to none a felony/misdemeanor level if possible; expect to pay fine though.
The prosecutor, and the owner may cut you slack; if they think they errored after they cool down a bit, they maybe ok to deal with. If they want to charge you with a felony and/or misdemeanor after you make that request, plead not guilty and get a lawyer. If they reduce it to a municipal trespass and loitering charge, expect to pay a couple hundred bucks. Say Thank You, and take it. As good as it gets.
A lawyer may be able to get all the charges dropped, but you still need to pay to retain his services in most cases. More than the municipal offenses would be, and there's no guaranteed he'll do any better. Most cops are reasonable if you are compliant, polite, and aren't doing anything outrageous. If you show you are concerned they will many times make an effort to work with you.
Hopefully things go well for you, and are somewhat easy to resolve with a minimum of damage.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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ryan
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| | | | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 30 on 10/5/2006 5:00 PM >
| | | | I already hired a lawyer. I'm not taking any chances with this.
I climb stuff!
Remember! Shop smart. Shop S-Mart \http://www.myspace.com/xitstheendx |
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juneaujeep
location:
Haines, Alaska
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 31 on 10/9/2006 7:46 AM >
| | | | If you have some bump keys and get caught by the cops they wont even think that they are actually tools to get into the building.
[last edit 10/9/2006 7:47 AM by juneaujeep - edited 1 times]
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Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 32 on 10/9/2006 7:54 AM >
| | | | Posted by juneaujeep
If you have some bump keys and get caught by the cops they wont even think that they are actually tools to get into the building.
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Yeah, if you just keep the bump keys on your keyring chances are they will go unnoticed. Much safer than picks, imo.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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rainman8889
 
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 33 on 10/9/2006 3:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
knock-knock....
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LOL! I was thinking the same thing blackhawk. 
[last edit 10/9/2006 3:41 PM by rainman8889 - edited 1 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Jef
 
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Hey Look at me....
| | Re: What's the best way to get around a lock?
<Reply # 34 on 10/9/2006 3:49 PM >
| | | | How come no one said to unlock the fucking thing...
We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste.
William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 |
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Ethics