Infiltration

Poll Question: Would you train to improve skills?
Total Votes:	39
1. Waste of time.	9	23.08 %
2. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best... so yeah.	22	56.41 %
3. Good idea, but I've got no time.	8	20.51 %

Blue90 location: TN Shiny. \|	Training and Such < on 7/27/2006 3:39 AM >

	Before i start, this portends mainly to Infil, so if you reply with remarks about Sam Fisher and the like, please forgive me if i don't mind you. Has anyone here ever thought about exercises to improve teamwork, stealth, social engineering skills and awareness on trips? I've heard suggestions on UER before, but i was unable to find any with the search feature. i have some ideas, but i wanted to see if anyone was interested before i posted it. Thanks in advance for any help. This is the way the world ends.

Pravus location: Chicago Area Gender: Male Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"... \| \| \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 1 on 7/27/2006 3:47 AM >

	One thing that helps alot is knowing how the people think that you are with.. you should know that if something happens everyone there breaks and knows what everyone is going to do.. have a plan setup on meeting places, even if it's not at the car, or only one person is getting the car and then goin on rounds to pickup people from thier set points.. But really the main thing thats gunna help is knowing how the people your with will react, other then that it's mostly common sense.. Live to Serve, Serve to Live..

Blue90 location: TN Shiny. \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 2 on 7/27/2006 3:53 AM >

	That's the sorta thing I'm talking about! The best preparations you could have is knowing those you're with! Also, I have trouble with people starting to joke around when on a trip, even in infil, and I don't wanna believe it's something i can't help. I really think there are some things we can do when just hanging around to improve ourselves. This is the way the world ends.

grassy This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Yeah, I'm MAX ACTION... So what? \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 3 on 7/27/2006 4:08 AM >

	Training is practice. i have never taken a photograph in my life exploring should be done at home, where it's safe

Pravus

location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male

Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 4 on 7/27/2006 4:23 AM >

Posted by Blue90
Also, I have trouble with people starting to joke around when on a trip, even in infil

normally we are screwin around pretty much whenever we go out, but we know when to be serious.. joking around just makes it more enjoyable..
Alot of the things you want to know how to improve, social engineering, situational awareness, teamwork isn't really something that can be 'trained' you just kinda hafta do it.. some people naturally are aware of thier surroundings, others would miss a dumptruck smashing into thier neighbors house.. just keep your eyes and ears open and pay attention to detail.. Teamwork comes naturally with knowing your friends your with, if you don't really know the person well they will be a wildcard, where as a friend you know well a simple nod will let you know what he's about to do.. as for social engineering, I don't like people, but I can talk my way out of situations, but not NEARLY as well as someone who is naturally very charismatic...

Live to Serve, Serve to Live..

MindHacker location: Suburbs of DC Gender: Male If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder. \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 5 on 7/27/2006 12:54 PM >

	I'm not so much into group training, mostly because when I go out its either solo / one other. I have practiced climbing barbwire fence, using a grappel, using ascenders/etriers, and lockpicking though. Another thing is that you can 'practice' in day to day life, improving social engineering skills on random people (try engaging a stranger in a conversation... its hard to get them to talk), or walking quietly through hallways. You can also train your mind somewhat, but some of this training just kind of happens as you find yourself noticing open doors w/o looking for them, or compulsively trying to find a way to roof a building (in your mind. If you are running up to buildings trying to climb them and you can't stop it you need professional help). And I agree with pravus. After a certain amount of time with the same people in these situations, you can predict / read what they are going to do. "That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire

KTownUE location: Kenosha, WI Gender: Male Small town UE all up in the midwest. \| \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 6 on 7/27/2006 3:36 PM >

	Yeah sometimes I go to somewhere quiet, such as a lesser used place at my job or in public and attempt to listen and begin to train myself on what footsteps sound like. I love to try and sneak around in flip flops....kinda hard to do at times but great when you can pull it off. 5D Mk 2 with Grip 50mm f/1.2L \|\| Canon 70-200 f/2.8L IS \|\| 16-35mm f/2.8 L Mk. 2 \|\| Canon 580EX 2 Flash

DevilC location: Washington, District of Corruption Gender: Male I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views. \| \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 7 on 7/29/2006 7:21 PM >

	Join the military kid. Need some help and guidance with that one? Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.

Pravus

location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male

Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 8 on 7/29/2006 9:19 PM >

Posted by DevilC
Join the military kid.
Need some help and guidance with that one?

the military is a joke.. at least in my humble opinion...

Live to Serve, Serve to Live..

DevilC location: Washington, District of Corruption Gender: Male I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views. \| \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 9 on 7/29/2006 9:27 PM >

	* That's a nice blanket statement kid. What do you do for a living? * Well young man, if you receive your opinions of the military from MONGOOSE, I see why you may think that. * Depends upon what you do. Some jobs are jobs unlike any other. Is an Air Force paper pusher that never leaves the US really a warrior? No. Regardless - it speaks volumes about a person that they are willing to sacrifice their time and their lives. * As for the topic at hand. There is NOWHERE else in the world you can get the kind of technical and tactical proficiency with weapons and small unit operations than in the US military. Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.

AAExplorer location: Washington, DC Gender: Male \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 10 on 7/30/2006 12:07 AM >

	Climbing? Definitely. That is what I consider to be the most useful thing one can train to be "good" at UE. Rock climbing is good, but urban and tree climbing is better because it gives you a better feel for the landscape than nicely arranged rock climbing gyms.

DevilC

location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male

I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 11 on 7/30/2006 11:45 AM >

Posted by AAExplorer
Climbing? Definitely. That is what I consider to be the most useful thing one can train to be "good" at UE. Rock climbing is good, but urban and tree climbing is better because it gives you a better feel for the landscape than nicely arranged rock climbing gyms.

Excellent training point! Most respectable gyms these days do have a climbing wall - it's become rather shiekh. It's promotes good functional strength and allows you to become comfortable with handling yourself. Tree climbing? Yeah - ever seen a professional arborist or tree climber go up the side of a building?? Reminiscant of spiderman. . . .

Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.

manitou

location:
Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo
Gender: Male

I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world!

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 12 on 7/30/2006 6:22 PM >

Posted by DevilC
shiekh

The leader of an Arab village or family?

I think you mean "chic".

www.dkphotogroup.com

DevilC

location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male

I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 13 on 7/30/2006 6:40 PM >

Posted by manitou
The leader of an Arab village or family?
I think you mean "chic".

I meant what I said.
Yes a shiekh is an Arab tribal leader, I know quite a few personally.
Where I live/work it also can denote something fun, new, faddish, trendy, or sexy.

Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.

Wolfmaan location: Canada Gender: Male UrBex \| \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 14 on 7/30/2006 7:26 PM >

	UE, depending on what you plan on doing, and how you are doing it can encompass a wide range of skills. Most of those skill can defiantly be learned in the military but also privately including (but not limited to - Scuba Diving - Rock Climbing - Hiking - Camping - Rapelling All of these activities rely heavily on equipment and gut instinct and when done in groups will require you to learn to trust your life to the blokes you're with. Especially if you slip at 15m climbing a 5.10 - your life is in the hands of your belayer. Of course when you're filling up summer diving on shipwrecks and in caves, climbing 50m rock walls, hiking, camping, and rapelling off things, may not leave much time to explore abandonments! Send lawyers, guns, and money...

manitou location: Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo Gender: Male I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world! \|	Re: Training and Such <Reply # 15 on 7/30/2006 7:40 PM >

	Chic Sheikh I wonder what language they speak where you are. www.dkphotogroup.com

DevilC

location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male

I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 16 on 7/30/2006 7:45 PM >

Posted by manitou
I wonder what language they speak where you are.

I speak troll rather well too. . . . Eh?
Here in the US we speak English and Spanish.
Up your way it's French and English.
Why the flames on my colloquialism?

Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.

Blue90

location:
TN

Shiny.

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 17 on 7/30/2006 11:30 PM >

Posted by Wolfmaan
- Scuba Diving
- Rock Climbing
- Hiking
- Camping
- Rapelling

Cool, I'm already most of the way there!
Yeah, and Parkour is also a plus.

Thanks everyone, these are just the kind of things i was looking for.

This is the way the world ends.

Pravus

location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male

Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 18 on 7/31/2006 1:34 AM >

Posted by DevilC
* That's a nice blanket statement kid. What do you do for a living?

* Well young man, if you receive your opinions of the military from MONGOOSE, I see why you may think that.

* Depends upon what you do. Some jobs are jobs unlike any other. Is an Air Force paper pusher that never leaves the US really a warrior? No. Regardless - it speaks volumes about a person that they are willing to sacrifice their time and their lives.

* As for the topic at hand. There is NOWHERE else in the world you can get the kind of technical and tactical proficiency with weapons and small unit operations than in the US military.

In order:
Kid? I see your so vastly older then me and much wiser in age.. Get off your high horse I'm not impressed..

What do I do for a living? I don't really see how that applies to anything, but for the sake of argument I'm a tower monkey, I climb cell phone towers to repair and put up RF antennas, how thats relevant to anything in your argument I have no idea, but am interested to hear how it is..

Mongoose? I receive my opinions on the military from what I see, and also from everything I hear from almost anyone I have known to make it back home.. Also I don't see how every fuckup who "sacrifices" thier life or time is worth noting OR my respect.. But I think your argument on that subject is more then likely slightly one dimensional, as I am sure just like so many others the respect doesn't extend beyond US forces, or those we are allied with..

As for saying the only way to get good technical OR tactical training is through the military is a joke in its self.. Not everyone in the military will get good training in the slightest, I have no doubt that the higher in the foodchain the better the training, but not every beatoff cannonfodder grunt will rise to become a delta or a seal.. All of that aside I don't see how all this "proficiency" with weapons is going to help you in the hobby of UE? Do you UE with a small highly trained team armed with silenced P90s? I rather doubt it.. the best training combat wise that could possibly help you in the slightest is hand to hand combat and lets face it the military doesn't exactly train every grunt to be a world class melee combatant... Now to your argument on teamwork, lets say your military tour gave you some massive insight to working with a small team, guess what all thats next to worthless if you don't know the people you are with well enough to read thier reactions, as well as them having the training to make use of your training..

So to your argument that the best way to get UE skills up is to join the military I have to say you are a total moron.. If you want to serve your country or some other crap sure thats all good go for it have fun.. If your goal in joining the armed forces is to better the skills of breaking into a building you need to get your head checked.. I'm not saying the military isn't a commendable effort, but not for this effort..

And I am done derailing this thread nor in any way do I care to start some flame war with a zealot..
The best you could really get from a military background for UE is basically physical training and endurance, which there are easier and better ways to deal with that..

Live to Serve, Serve to Live..

DevilC

location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male

I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.

Re: Training and Such
<Reply # 19 on 7/31/2006 3:59 AM >

Posted by Blue90
Has anyone here ever thought about exercises to improve teamwork, stealth, social engineering skills and awareness on trips? I've heard suggestions on UER before, but i was unable to find any with the search feature. i have some ideas, but i wanted to see if anyone was interested before i posted it.

** Moving back on topic, or trying to.
* Blue 90 asked a rather juvenile and naive question, to which I responded with a rather flippant answer. I apologize because I should have been more helpful.
* Regardless of what Pravus concludes based upon his extensive life experience (and his comments smell like the opinions of someone who either cannot get in or is afraid to join the military) Blue90 just described some of the skillset a young soldier (in the right career field) would indeed leave the military with.
* I do not know how to respond to Pravus without sounding like the juvenile that he is. I never said it was the only way - but you cannot find another line of work that gives you so much responsibility and so much training at such a young age. Nope, not everyone is a Green Beret or a Navy SEAL - but if you want to train and learn you can walk away a master of just exactly what Blue90 asked about - and the American tax payer will have footed the bill. Thanks for climbing towers to pay my salary Pravus.

Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.

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