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Infiltration Forums > Archived UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff (Viewed 3674 times)
tzaone 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 80 on 8/7/2006 3:04 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
omg this is insannniiittyyyy

make moves
earthworm 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 81 on 8/7/2006 11:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Bobtheallmighty
you see "laws" dont matter and thats were we agree. the only law that really does mater is natural law. the only thing that will ever mater is your moral compass not some dumb ass words on a piece of paper made by the elite who happen to be part of the government. hell its natural law that allows everyone on this forum to go and trespass.....

the fact of the mater is, the laws of society should in no way be part of this argument. its all just grasping at straws.

Thats what I've been saying for a long time.
Posted by ian_evil
No. Your ignorant. Nice semi-colon. Nazis suck. Everything you've posted on this website has been "don't challenge the status quo, obey the law, and if you think for yourself, you're a piece of shit", so it's no surprise.

Thank you. I agree with most of what you said, but you lost me at any mention of the state. Its not that its about free speech; its about property rights in their minds.

Tourism, human circulation considered as consumption is fundamentally nothing more than the leisure of going to see what has become banal.
yokes 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 82 on 8/8/2006 12:10 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
How to Own an Arguement in 8 simple points.
With the notable exclusion of a "Suck it Trebek", this pretty much is a textbook case:

Posted by DevilC
* You are as self-centered and elitist as you are ignorant.
* The perception of graffiti is the SAME in Europe as it is here.
* Perhaps VANDALS and miscreants in Europe view their "expression" the same way you do. The courts and the people who must suffer and endure its scourge do not see it so kindly nor in such an artistic vein.
* The sense of community you described in Europe is exactly why they have such disdain for graffiti. America is a transient and restless nation, we have little value for place and space - that is why we are always tearing down old to build new. Europe is the opposite - they cherish their cities and buildings. There is no love for some disrespectful prick (I mean disenfranchised youth) who wished to convey his message with a stencil and a $2 can of paint. While people may find Banksey "cute" there is no love for his brand of "public art" as you claim.
* Have you ever lived abroad? Where and from when to when? Perhaps your lack of experience contributes to your narrow and misguided world view.
* I still do not see why your stenciling should be allowed whilst the markings of others not be. Explain to us why you are so special. What statement are you making? You invoke such strong cause while providing little evidence of justification. You are no Robert Banks.
* Would you suggest that we revoke the right of free speech? You seem to. I am at a loss to understand what you have been trying to say in 4 pages of posts. Vandalism in any form is not protected speech and it never has been seen that way.
* Blackhawk's (who is not a nazi) speech and grammar have been correct - it is you who has trouble building contractions and composing lucid sentances.





"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
tron_2.0 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 83 on 8/8/2006 12:34 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
i think his stencils are cool. get off his ass.

[quote][i]Posted by yokes[/i]
I find your lack of coziness.... disturbing.
[/quote]
earthworm 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 84 on 8/8/2006 2:05 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by yokes
How to Own an Arguement in 8 simple points.
With the notable exclusion of a "Suck it Trebek", this pretty much is a textbook case:

Hold on there slick, lets take a look at that a little closer. I'll number them to make it easier.
Posted by DevilC
*1 You are as self-centered and elitist as you are ignorant.

More of an insult than a point, but I'll take self-centered and elitist. Half a point.
*2 The perception of graffiti is the SAME in Europe as it is here.
Yet to back it up, thats just a statement. It's what you're trying to say with points 3 and 4.
*3 Perhaps VANDALS and miscreants in Europe view their "expression" the same way you do. The courts and the people who must suffer and endure its scourge do not see it so kindly nor in such an artistic vein.

thats one point.
*4 The sense of community you described in Europe is exactly why they have such disdain for graffiti. America is a transient and restless nation, we have little value for place and space - that is why we are always tearing down old to build new. Europe is the opposite - they cherish their cities and buildings. There is no love for some disrespectful prick (I mean disenfranchised youth) who wished to convey his message with a stencil and a $2 can of paint. While people may find Banksey "cute" there is no love for his brand of "public art" as you claim.
Nice back handed insults, but it started out with a good point, so one point.
*5 Have you ever lived abroad? Where and from when to when? Perhaps your lack of experience contributes to your narrow and misguided world view.

Assuming that DevilC has lived abroad, that's sort of a point, but more of just backing up some of the others.
*6 I still do not see why your stenciling should be allowed whilst the markings of others not be. Explain to us why you are so special. What statement are you making? You invoke such strong cause while providing little evidence of justification. You are no Robert Banks.
I still think that you said this in point one.

*7 Would you suggest that we revoke the right of free speech? You seem to. I am at a loss to understand what you have been trying to say in 4 pages of posts. Vandalism in any form is not protected speech and it never has been seen that way.
I don't see how missing the point counts as a point.

*8 Blackhawk's (who is not a nazi) speech and grammar have been correct - it is you who has trouble building contractions and composing lucid sentances.
It doesn't matter if it was posted in 1337. You're splitting hairs. Its a few good points total, not an argument winner by far. so "suck it Trebek"
[last edit 8/8/2006 2:08 AM by earthworm - edited 1 times]

Tourism, human circulation considered as consumption is fundamentally nothing more than the leisure of going to see what has become banal.
yokes 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 85 on 8/16/2006 4:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Pro-vandalism people:

What's your opinion on the defacing of sites like the Brooklyn Bridge:



"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
DevilC 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 86 on 8/16/2006 5:32 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I never said "suck it Trebek."
Wow.
I stick with my original contention - graffiti is a trashy expression by the socially marginalized.
Spraying a bridge in that manner requires an iron will OR an unmedicated mental disorder.
I wonder what SaneSmith does for a living? Such antics are usually the work of the under/unemployed.

Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.
Tek-69 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 87 on 8/16/2006 6:01 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Throughout our history, the human animal has always left it's mark, some cave walls are all we have of our primitive history. I don't tag, make murals or anything else, but I can definitely understand why others do. For some people it's a desire to move you, for other's it's to piss you off, and for some it's merely a way of saying I existed and I was here. Personally I view tags the same way I view any other animal's markings, sometimes I like it sometimes I don't. Maybe it's the american in me but in a society where things are constantly torn down to build new things, there are always new places to explore and fresh new walls to look at. So what if someone tags or murals them? In a disposable culture, the tags you hate will be gone eventually anyway. Considering I'm new I won't lump myself into the UE fold quite yet, but you guys need to realise that whether or not you justify it to yourselves, society views UE'ers just like they do taggers, muralists, stoners and many other subcultures. You're all criminals and so am I and so are they. Just do whatever it is you do.

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blackhawk 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 88 on 8/16/2006 9:13 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tek-69
You're all criminals and so am I and so are they.


Speak for yourself.

I don't trash other people's property. I will steal your pic if I can though.

That bridge graf will be blasted off. Don't be so sure he got away; he wasn't as stealthy as he thought. Another couple grand of maintenance do to vandals. Swell.


Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
yokes 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 89 on 8/16/2006 10:18 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Blackhawk: actually, that one was done back in 1988. While it was mostly removed, part of it is still visible today. I don't think charges were ever brought one and the writer died in the 1990s.

"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
DevilC 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 90 on 8/16/2006 11:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by yokes Blackhawk: actually, that one was done back in 1988. While it was mostly removed, part of it is still visible today. I don't think charges were ever brought one and the writer died in the 1990s.

Nagasaki was vaporized 60 years ago this month AND you can still see some ruins and evidence of the blast. Does that make atomic warfare art?
Al-Qaeda's spectacular 9/11/01 attack was 5 years ago - yet I can still see some of the damage where I work. Does that make terrorism art?
Despite our divergent opinions - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you are never going to get a group of social deviants to agree on moral philosophy.
Returning to the central question. . . .
"Tags: No // Murals: Yes // Drain markings: Yes
We've all seen good sites ruined by an illegible Krylon scrawl. It wrecks places that might otherwise be post-apocalyptic. Freedom Tunnel-style murals are something different. If someone is willing to take on the expense, it'd be nice to see them cut out (yeah, right) and saved. Drain marks seem acceptable, i.e. 'DanB got this far.'"




Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.
Tek-69 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 91 on 8/17/2006 5:29 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by blackhawk


Speak for yourself.

I don't trash other people's property. I will steal your pic if I can though.

That bridge graf will be blasted off. Don't be so sure he got away; he wasn't as stealthy as he thought. Another couple grand of maintenance do to vandals. Swell.



I think maybe you missed my point. You don't get to choose whether or not you're a criminal, society does. I never said you trashed anyone's property, your crime is trespassing, maybe it's not a big deal to you but it is to some other people. Personally I don't think smoking weed makes me a criminal, but if you ask a cop or the old lady who doesn't know a bowl from a crack pipe, I am.

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blackhawk 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 92 on 8/17/2006 5:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tek-69


I think maybe you missed my point. You don't get to choose whether or not you're a criminal, society does. I never said you trashed anyone's property, your crime is trespassing, maybe it's not a big deal to you but it is to some other people. Personally I don't think smoking weed makes me a criminal, but if you ask a cop or the old lady who doesn't know a bowl from a crack pipe, I am.


You do choose. Many times UER members are not breaking any laws when they are pic taking in abandoned sites. If you are charged with trespass the severity of the charge is determined by what you did while there. Most people, cops included really could care less if all your doing is pic taking. Your goal should be to get your pictures without breaking laws.

Walk down the street with your camera, and snap people's pics. Smile, and look sincere. Many people will smile, some pose, few if any will complain. The ones that scowl are a delight. Most people are comfortable with pic takers even when it's them. Vandals, thieves, arsonists, taggers/graffers, etc they are not tolerant of.



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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 93 on 8/17/2006 5:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by yokes
Pro-vandalism people:

What's your opinion on the defacing of sites like the Brooklyn Bridge:


Anything pretty and atypical, its a shame to mess up. If this were something clever and temporary... (and i knew him, and i was 20 then, and...) I might have been up there helping him.

But I'm pretty borderline. I have seen it ruin a site, and I have seen it add a little charm. I love the wording of the question, its like the "prolife vs antilife" and "prochoice v antichoice" issues.

~A criminal (society may like me, but that doesn't change squat)

"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire
TaP 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 94 on 8/17/2006 9:31 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
i'd like to remind all graffiti enthousiasts that there IS a private graffiti
forum where we appreciate images posted by members

http://www.uer.ca/...howallpb.asp?fid=1
[last edit 8/17/2006 9:32 PM by TaP - edited 1 times]


earthworm 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 95 on 8/18/2006 3:22 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by DevilC

It wrecks places that might otherwise be post-apocalyptic.



you seem to have a very narrow view of "post-apocalyptic" art. Not everything is going to be all "mad max" if you take away civilisation. Someone is going to steel paint from a home depot in the final riots before the blast/ zombie infection/ revolution/ rapture. And, how would those random wandering bands of survivers/ refugees communicate? So no one that writes "UR MOM <3 00===D" is going to survive? Or do you just think that not one human would survive, and that all our cities would "return to nature"? Thats a narrow ass view of the "apocalypse" if you ask me.

But aside from that you also seem to have a more narrow view of art than I. I would consider the remains of an atomic bomb blast art, just as you might consider your photo of a rusted pipe or pressure gage art (or what ever you're into when you explore). And yes, I would say quite a bit of art came out of the attacks of september 11th (but most of it was bad art), and that in a big sence it was theater ( many terrorist acts are just that, in that they inspire certain feelings in the beholder.)

Tourism, human circulation considered as consumption is fundamentally nothing more than the leisure of going to see what has become banal.
DevilC 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 96 on 8/18/2006 10:16 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Earthworm is onto something. . . . ;)
You contend, then, that art is the form regardless of the procedure or practice that wrought it?
Do you see the issue I am trying to raise though?
Treating this objectively versus subjectively yields very different results.
The tagging on the bridge is cool - even though it is meaningless to most and objectively not very artful?
What if I went down to the catacombs of say, Paris (hallowed ground to many of the UE'ers here!), and made a very prominent and very large "God bless the U.S." mural to illustrate Franco-American cooperation in two world wars?
What if I painted a large nazi swastika on the Temple Wall in Jerusalem because I am an angry muslim and I am convinced the holocaust never occurred? How about zombie eyes on the men carved on Mt. Rushmore?
This argument is so highly subjective - it is tantamount to the court saying "I cannot define obscenity - but I know it when I see it!"
I stand by my previous statement:
"Despite our divergent opinions - beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you are never going to get a group of social deviants to agree on moral philosophy."

Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings.
MindHacker 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 97 on 8/18/2006 2:35 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by DevilC
How about zombie eyes on the men carved on Mt. Rushmore?

"you are never going to get a group of social deviants to agree on moral philosophy."


Lets, and agreed.

"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire
TaP 


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 98 on 8/18/2006 3:11 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
beauty is in the eye of the paintcan holder


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Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 99 on 8/23/2006 9:51 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by CaptOrbit
...

OK, I’m in NO WAY comparing the items above to spray painting, (Though I seem to recall that Singapore so strongly discourages it you can be sentenced to a flogging for spray painting).



Just to clarify, Michael Fay was arrested for vandalising cars, by egging and spraypainting them. The kid was a dick, I knew him when I lived in Singapore, and he got what he had coming to him. I don't know whom of you here will remember this, but less than two months after he came back to the states, he was busted with two kilos of coke in his car. In singapore he would have been hanged. So, yes, there is a strong cultural difference, but, one day when my family went out to dinner, my mother accidentally left her camera on a subway bench. we didn't realize it untill we were at the restaurant, and figured it was too late. we returned over two hours later to find it sitting untouched on the bench. Was that because people were scared they would be caned if they took it? Not really, it's more of a common sense and honor thing.
Just some food for thought.

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Infiltration Forums > Archived UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff (Viewed 3674 times)
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