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earthworm
      
location:
General Area
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 60 on 7/28/2006 9:36 PM >
|  | | | Oh come on now, I know that you think, perhaps secretly think, that the law at the very least does not apply to you. Thats why you are able to make the "ethical" choice to even trespass; its how we all speed and run red lights from time to time; its how some of us shoplift packs of gum and any other number of petty crimes we all commit. Make the jump to "the" law not really applying to anybody. The best reason not to tag in a location is that it gets boarded up if its trashed. Other than that I really don't have anything against it.
Tourism, human circulation considered as consumption is fundamentally nothing more than the leisure of going to see what has become banal. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| |  | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 61 on 7/28/2006 9:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by earthworm
Oh come on now, I know that you think, perhaps secretly think, that the law at the very least does not apply to you. Thats why you are able to make the "ethical" choice to even trespass; its how we all speed and run red lights from time to time; its how some of us shoplift packs of gum and any other number of petty crimes we all commit. Make the jump to "the" law not really applying to anybody. The best reason not to tag in a location is that it gets boarded up if its trashed. Other than that I really don't have anything against it.
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Are you referring to the statement I just made? Learn your penal codes, and then tell me what i just stated is misleading. Do your homework. You'll never get turned down from a rental property lease for speeding tickets, or running red lights.
I don't like vandals, taggers are vandals. You don't have to be a lawyer to figure it out.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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ian_evil
location:
Providence, Rhode Island
Gender: Male
we hope you have enjoyed our program.
| |  | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 62 on 8/2/2006 1:51 AM >
| | | | For me, graffiti is not an issue of legality, but ethics. (Just like YOU and YOUR oppinions about breaking trespassing laws.) I've considered other people's points of view, looked at the way other societies and countries handle the issue, and come to the conclusion that tasteful, intellegent, well excecuted street art is perfectly healthy, if not necisarry.
So I don't care. This is UER. There are plenty of street art websites where blackhawk would be the asshole. I also haven't met too many people this anal about graffiti in person. Not even people who I've tagged. But whatever. This is what message boards are for, right?
I also think its awesome how I'm criticized for having one stencil. I have a trunk full of stencils and I've painted most of them dozens of times. But there's only one picture of one stencil on the internet. So I only have one stencil.
I also remembered this:
Which isn't mine.
[last edit 8/2/2006 2:53 AM by ian_evil - edited 2 times]
[center][b]New England Industrial Culture Online[/b]
Stencil/Graffiti, Street Art - Industrial/Exprimental Music - Urban Exploration
"[i]We are the ones you had to dehumanize.[/i]"[/center] |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 63 on 8/2/2006 3:30 AM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
For me, graffiti is not an issue of legality, but ethics. (Just like YOU and YOUR oppinions about breaking trespassing laws.) I've considered other people's points of view, looked at the way other societies and countries handle the issue, and come to the conclusion that tasteful, intellegent, well excecuted street art is perfectly healthy, if not necisarry.
So I don't care. This is UER. There are plenty of street art websites where blackhawk would be the asshole. I also haven't met too many people this anal about graffiti in person. Not even people who I've tagged. But whatever. This is what message boards are for, right?
I also think its awesome how I'm criticized for having one stencil. I have a trunk full of stencils and I've painted most of them dozens of times. But there's only one picture of one stencil on the internet. So I only have one stencil.
I also remembered this:
Which isn't mine.
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This one isn't yours?
It be interesting to put with those people who's property you have tagged in touch with you and see if they're still so mellow.
If a piece of shit thinks I'm an asshole, I'm glad he knows his place.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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ian_evil
location:
Providence, Rhode Island
Gender: Male
we hope you have enjoyed our program.
| | | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 64 on 8/2/2006 3:50 AM >
| | | | Yeah that's me. Out of curiosity where did you find that one photo of me so carelessly destroying private property with brutal impunity?
I was actually stopped by the Environmental Police or Park Rangers or whoever it was that was responsible for maintaining that location, and when they saw stencils (which they use just themselves label things) being using to make images, they thought it was hot shit. No lie. At no point was I told to stop.
I've taught a 'How to Stencil' class at a community center, talked with people who wanted me to put my graffiti over the crap on their building, and city workers who stuck around to watch me finish my stencils.
I still can't argue that I haven't broken the law. But you still haven't convinced me that matters.
[center][b]New England Industrial Culture Online[/b]
Stencil/Graffiti, Street Art - Industrial/Exprimental Music - Urban Exploration
"[i]We are the ones you had to dehumanize.[/i]"[/center] |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 65 on 8/2/2006 4:17 AM >
| | | | Agreed, you are careless.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Bobtheallmighty
 
location:
Somewhere over london, Ontario
Gender: Male
gotta climb.
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 66 on 8/2/2006 7:37 AM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
I still can't argue that I haven't broken the law. But you still haven't convinced me that matters.
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you see "laws" dont matter and thats were we agree. the only law that really does mater is natural law. the only thing that will ever mater is your moral compass not some dumb ass words on a piece of paper made by the elite who happen to be part of the government. hell its natural law that allows everyone on this forum to go and trespass. its natural law that drives people to pick up trinkets from sites, tag, stencil, paint, and whatever the hell else thay want to do. the fact of the mater is, the laws of society should in no way be part of this argument. its all just grasping at straws. one person trying to make them selves seem better then the other. its all useless bullshit and no amount of it is realy going to change anything when it comes to this subject.
[last edit 8/2/2006 7:38 AM by Bobtheallmighty - edited 1 times]
-bob
" <Samurai> you know, we aren't as far removed from animals as we'd like to think... i still have bowel movements that border on mystical... i mean almost orgasmic" |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 67 on 8/2/2006 3:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
Yeah that's me. Out of curiosity where did you find that one photo of me so carelessly destroying private property with brutal impunity?
I was actually stopped by the Environmental Police or Park Rangers or whoever it was that was responsible for maintaining that location, and when they saw stencils (which they use just themselves label things) being using to make images, they thought it was hot shit. No lie. At no point was I told to stop.
I've taught a 'How to Stencil' class at a community center, talked with people who wanted me to put my graffiti over the crap on their building, and city workers who stuck around to watch me finish my stencils.
I still can't argue that I haven't broken the law. But you still haven't convinced me that matters.
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So, why don't you write a letter to the city and offer to "beautify" public areas and get an official ok?
[last edit 8/2/2006 3:24 PM by Deuterium - edited 1 times]
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ian_evil
location:
Providence, Rhode Island
Gender: Male
we hope you have enjoyed our program.
| | | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 68 on 8/3/2006 12:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
So, why don't you write a letter to the city and offer to "beautify" public areas and get an official ok?
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Because if the state let one dude start writing all over something, everyone else would want to do it. Americans have this weird idea that they should get to do anything that any other American can do.
So when the right to free speech is extended to one person, that means it must be extended to everyone. And then you get people like blackhawk and his Waffen-SS roleplay troop having rallies down town. So if the state tells one person that they can put art on a wall, suddenly a million other people are going to want to draw blunts and penises and write ICP all over everything.
In other countries, the cultural perception of street art allows for a grey area where thoughtful, respectful and well executed graffiti is not treated as a blight. (And I mean other first-world nations with urban centers comparable to the United States. So don't tell me that people get murdered in Sudan so Spain's take on the issue of graffiti is invalid, ok?)
In America, the idea of private property is so precious to us. We can pretend, but there's no 'community' in the United States. The rest of the world thinks we're insane because most of us don't know our neighbors. In other countries, street art is seen as a way for the disenfranchised to have a public voice. Graffiti will never go away, so why suppress it? If you discourage the negative, and give direction to the positive, you can have a healthy way for this kind of art to exist. But in America, we think 'graffiti' is just poor inner city ethnic kids writing their names on people's houses.
[last edit 8/3/2006 12:11 PM by ian_evil - edited 1 times]
[center][b]New England Industrial Culture Online[/b]
Stencil/Graffiti, Street Art - Industrial/Exprimental Music - Urban Exploration
"[i]We are the ones you had to dehumanize.[/i]"[/center] |
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hydrotherapy
Clever Girl
location:
Circle of Least Confusion
RPS is inside all of us
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 69 on 8/3/2006 3:39 PM >
| | | | I don't know what backwoods town you come from, but up here in the ghetto I call home, we have many, many condoned and even state/city-funded murals and projects to beautify walls, buildings, even factories.
So in short you're defending your utter resistence to "ask permission for [your] art" because you don't want everyone else to be allowed the same right? Damn you're selfish. And somewhat stupid.
| So if the state tells one person that they can put art on a wall, suddenly a million other people are going to want to draw blunts and penises and write ICP all over everything. |
I can't promise the state's gonna give you a thumbs up for wanting to draw a giant penis mural, but they just might. The NEA gave Serrano and mapplethorpe money to make art, controversial as it was, but I don't recall seeing a flurry of people taking photos of piss christs and homoerotic leather-clad penises after said grants were handed out.
So shut up and go spray your stencils.
Get down, girl, go 'head, get down. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 70 on 8/3/2006 5:32 PM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
Because if the state let one dude start writing all over something, everyone else would want to do it. Americans have this weird idea that they should get to do anything that any other American can do.
So when the right to free speech is extended to one person, that means it must be extended to everyone. And then you get people like blackhawk and his Waffen-SS roleplay troop having rallies down town. So if the state tells one person that they can put art on a wall, suddenly a million other people are going to want to draw blunts and penises and write ICP all over everything.
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You think your special? Well you you are, in your own mind. What's wrong afraid of some competition on legal wall space? Your ignorant as well as inept; you haven't a clue who Rommel was other than a vague notion of the time frame he occupied.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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ian_evil
location:
Providence, Rhode Island
Gender: Male
we hope you have enjoyed our program.
| | | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 71 on 8/3/2006 6:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by hydrotherapy
I don't know what backwoods town you come from, but up here in the ghetto I call home, we have many, many condoned and even state/city-funded murals and projects to beautify walls, buildings, even factories.
So in short you're defending your utter resistence to "ask permission for [your] art" because you don't want everyone else to be allowed the same right? Damn you're selfish. And somewhat stupid.
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I have no problem with state sanctioned artwork or being a part of it. We don't have many legal walls here, and we need more. But I reject the notion that graffiti needs a permit to be ok.
Posted by blackhawk
Your ignorant as well as inept; you haven't a clue who Rommel was other than a vague notion of the time frame he occupied. |
No. Your ignorant. Nice semi-colon. Nazis suck. Everything you've posted on this website has been "don't challenge the status quo, obey the law, and if you think for yourself, you're a piece of shit", so it's no surprise.
[center][b]New England Industrial Culture Online[/b]
Stencil/Graffiti, Street Art - Industrial/Exprimental Music - Urban Exploration
"[i]We are the ones you had to dehumanize.[/i]"[/center] |
|
blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 72 on 8/3/2006 8:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
No. Your ignorant. Nice semi-colon. Nazis suck. Everything you've posted on this website has been "don't challenge the status quo, obey the law, and if you think for yourself, you're a piece of shit", so it's no surprise.
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I do believe I use the semicolon correctly, at least I spelled it right.
I see you decided that you wouldn't use the word "asshole" again when you want to slander me. What's wrong no come back for this:
"It be interesting to put with those people who's property you have tagged in touch with you and see if they're still so mellow.
If a piece of shit thinks I'm an asshole, I'm glad he knows his place."
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It is you that is the inept fool of your own for providing evidence that incriminates yourself, and can be used against you in the future. You should quit while your ahead.
Please continue...
[last edit 8/3/2006 8:45 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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charon108
location:
Springfield MO
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 73 on 8/4/2006 4:50 AM >
| | | | Tag away. Trespassing is illegal and so is vandalism but who cares? Most everyone on this site trespasses anyway and no one is condemned and flamed for it. But god forbid you spray some paint on a wall. I personally don't tag but i don't mind if someone else does. It gives me something to look a when I'm trespassing to explore drains and tunnels.
Just don't get caught, that would suck
[last edit 8/4/2006 4:51 AM by charon108 - edited 1 times]
This is your life... and its ending one minute at a time. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 74 on 8/4/2006 4:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by charon108
Tag away. Trespassing is illegal and so is vandalism but who cares? Most everyone on this site trespasses anyway and no one is condemned and flamed for it. But god forbid you spray some paint on a wall. I personally don't tag but i don't mind if someone else does. It gives me something to look a when I'm trespassing to explore drains and tunnels.
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You missed the point entirely, read the whole thread.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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charon108
location:
Springfield MO
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 75 on 8/4/2006 5:03 AM >
| | | | What's the subject again? Isn't it "Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff"? I think i wrote something about tagging.
And arn't you criticizing people for tagging?
Just giving my opinion on tagging: the subject of the thread
This is your life... and its ending one minute at a time. |
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supaslush
location:
San Diego
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 76 on 8/5/2006 1:38 AM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
So if the state tells one person that they can put art on a wall, suddenly a million other people are going to want to draw blunts and penises and write ICP all over everything.
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I've been following this thread silently and have actually been won over by much of your argument. However, I'm not quite sure where you're at here. If you make "state-sanctioned" art that's of high enough caliber to be distinguishable from crappy kid-stuff, how is it that your work will unleash a tidal wave of wieners 'n' blunts?
Posted by ian_evil
If you discourage the negative, and give direction to the positive, you can have a healthy way for this kind of art to exist. But in America, we think 'graffiti' is just poor inner city ethnic kids writing their names on people's houses.
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I really like what you say above. It really made me reconsider the way I'd been thinking about this.
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supaslush
location:
San Diego
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 77 on 8/5/2006 1:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
you haven't a clue who Rommel was
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He made those little ceramic figurines, right? My grandma had a few of those.
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Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 78 on 8/5/2006 3:07 AM >
|  | | | While we're on the topic, does anyone know what this tag is?
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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DevilC
location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 79 on 8/6/2006 2:32 PM >
| | | | * You are as self-centered and elitist as you are ignorant.
* The perception of graffiti is the SAME in Europe as it is here.
* Perhaps VANDALS and miscreants in Europe view their "expression" the same way you do. The courts and the people who must suffer and endure its scourge do not see it so kindly nor in such an artistic vein.
* The sense of community you described in Europe is exactly why they have such disdain for graffiti. America is a transient and restless nation, we have little value for place and space - that is why we are always tearing down old to build new. Europe is the opposite - they cherish their cities and buildings. There is no love for some disrespectful prick (I mean disenfranchised youth) who wished to convey his message with a stencil and a $2 can of paint. While people may find Banksey "cute" there is no love for his brand of "public art" as you claim.
* Have you ever lived abroad? Where and from when to when? Perhaps your lack of experience contributes to your narrow and misguided world view.
* I still do not see why your stenciling should be allowed whilst the markings of others not be. Explain to us why you are so special. What statement are you making? You invoke such strong cause while providing little evidence of justification. You are no Robert Banks.
* Would you suggest that we revoke the right of free speech? You seem to. I am at a loss to understand what you have been trying to say in 4 pages of posts. Vandalism in any form is not protected speech and it never has been seen that way.
* Blackhawk's (who is not a nazi) speech and grammar have been correct - it is you who has trouble building contractions and composing lucid sentances.
Posted by ian_evil
Because if the state let one dude start writing all over something, everyone else would want to do it. Americans have this weird idea that they should get to do anything that any other American can do.
So when the right to free speech is extended to one person, that means it must be extended to everyone. And then you get people like blackhawk and his Waffen-SS roleplay troop having rallies down town. So if the state tells one person that they can put art on a wall, suddenly a million other people are going to want to draw blunts and penises and write ICP all over everything.
In other countries, the cultural perception of street art allows for a grey area where thoughtful, respectful and well executed graffiti is not treated as a blight. (And I mean other first-world nations with urban centers comparable to the United States. So don't tell me that people get murdered in Sudan so Spain's take on the issue of graffiti is invalid, ok?)
In America, the idea of private property is so precious to us. We can pretend, but there's no 'community' in the United States. The rest of the world thinks we're insane because most of us don't know our neighbors. In other countries, street art is seen as a way for the disenfranchised to have a public voice. Graffiti will never go away, so why suppress it? If you discourage the negative, and give direction to the positive, you can have a healthy way for this kind of art to exist. But in America, we think 'graffiti' is just poor inner city ethnic kids writing their names on people's houses.
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Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
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