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CaptOrbit
      
location:
Sarasota, FL or Cincinnati, OH
Gender: Male
There you are, right back in the jungle again.
 |  |  | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 40 on 7/20/2006 5:47 AM >
|  | | | You bring up a valid point, and I guess the answer probably lies some where in questions like this.
Why are child soldiers acceptable in Sierra Leone? -BBC.co.uk
Why is it ok to eat Saint Bernard's in China?-Snopes.com
Why are public beheadings acceptable in Saudi Arabia?-CBSnews.com
Why is the death penalty sanctioned in 36 states but not the remaining 14?-wikipedia.org
Why does the EU not allow any capitol punishment?-CNN.com
Why are a lot of things not ok in some places but perfectly acceptable in others?
OK, I’m in NO WAY comparing the items above to spray painting, (Though I seem to recall that Singapore so strongly discourages it you can be sentenced to a flogging for spray painting). The above examples are the extreme.
The point I’m trying to make is, you could just as easily asked why do people do anything?
Who knows?
[last edit 7/20/2006 8:10 PM by CaptOrbit - edited 3 times]
The personal responsibility train left the station years ago, and you gave it the finger as you watched it leave. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
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UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 41 on 7/20/2006 5:58 AM >
| | | | Yeah if you tagged something in Iran they would prolly chopped off your hand, or just beat you senseless in jail for the next year. Try tagging something in Germany with anything to do with the h or n word, get caught and see what happens.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 42 on 7/20/2006 8:09 AM >
| | | | Posted by ian_evil
Then why is graffiti acceptable in other cultures?
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This has to be the worst counterargument.
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tzaone
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 43 on 7/27/2006 1:04 AM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
Yes it is. Paint stripping/spray painting someone's car is comparable to breaking their window. When you apply paint on someone's property, you've done so with an intent of defacing the property without the permission of the owner and you're criminally negligent as you reasonably should have known that repairs cost money.
Civil charges are between the property owner and the vandals.
It is up to the state to bring up a charge and up to the people to decide the criminal charge. Whether the vandalism is "art" by your definition or a picture of a penis, if a proper removal cost $600, the law says it is a $600 criminal damage.
Yes it is. Altering the apperance of something without the cosent of those with a legal claim to the property is automatically vandalism.
Business owners have to keep their place of business with appearance acceptable to the community to maintain a good relationship with fellow merchants and most business owners or their landlord do not approve of graffiti. If you alter an appearance without permission and restoration to pre-vandalized state incurs cost, it is by definition a criminal damage.
No, YOU can't go tag anything that YOU do not own or have permission to.
Any property not owned by the government is private property in the United States. Wal-Mart store, the mall, Microsoft Corporation, etc are all private property. Not all property owned by government or public authority is publicly accessible and publicly accessible property doesn't mean you have the every right to do whatever you want to it.
Corporations have just as much right to tell you "no you're not going to paint anything in our property without our written permission" as you do telling otherse they're not going to paint anything in your house.
YES. Spray painting in abandoned buildings without permission is defacing private property.
Do you understand the legal definition of private property? The people, and the court of law, go by the legal definition, not by ian_evil's personal opinion of what's considered an owner.
And in certain culture, cannibalism is encouraged in their ritual.
Polluting the air with reckless release of solvent vapor, vandalizing property you have no legal claim at the expense of other is not expressing yourself visually. That's expressing yourself through crime.
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you ARE an idiot. ian evil just replyed with very good points and you respond with your same predictable-ass comebacks, law this law that. dont forget that YOU break the law to. laws are bullshit (which is why in some countries women still have to wear veils in public) and cultural norms are very relative to their own respective culture.
your views seem very conservative for a hobby like this one, which seems to me like you'd be in the minority. but i could be wrong
make moves |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
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UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 44 on 7/27/2006 1:24 AM >
| | | | Posted by tzaone
you ARE an idiot. ian evil just replyed with very good points and you respond with your same predictable-ass comebacks, law this law that. dont forget that YOU break the law to. laws are bullshit (which is why in some countries women still have to wear veils in public) and cultural norms are very relative to their own respective culture.
your views seem very conservative for a hobby like this one, which seems to me like you'd be in the minority. but i could be wrong
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You are both in the minority, and wrong. It's not that you trespass, it's where, and what you do there when you are trespassing there that elevates the severity of the crime. Since you seem to think all laws are BS, we'll leave it with this watered down version. Vandalism is not exceptable behavior from members.
Keep playing on rooftops, and see what happens.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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CaptOrbit
location:
Sarasota, FL or Cincinnati, OH
Gender: Male
There you are, right back in the jungle again.
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 45 on 7/27/2006 1:59 AM >
| | | |
Post by blackhawk
Keep playing on rooftops, and see what happens. |
I don't think they care what happens, but they will...
The personal responsibility train left the station years ago, and you gave it the finger as you watched it leave. |
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Chronos
location:
Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 46 on 7/27/2006 2:52 AM >
|  | | | I just found this beautiful mural while exploring an old coal mine, I don't know who could have painted such masterpiece or why they painted it here but I think that it added to the experience greatly and I'm sure glad they did.
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 47 on 7/27/2006 2:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by Chronos
I just found this beautiful mural while exploring an old coal mine, I don't know who could have painted such masterpiece or why they painted it here but I think that it added to the experience greatly and I'm sure glad they did.
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Looks like you were in the middle of painting a room. Lot of trouble for something your just gonna paint over...must of been bored.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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MindHacker
location:
Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 48 on 7/27/2006 12:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Looks like you were in the middle of painting a room. Lot of trouble for something your just gonna paint over...must of been bored.
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Actually, It doesn't look like that much effort at all.
And I'm sure you've painted a room before... of course he was bored.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
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UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 49 on 7/27/2006 4:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by MindHacker
Actually, It doesn't look like that much effort at all.
And I'm sure you've painted a room before... of course he was bored.
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Is that why he posted it?
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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unseen
location:
Houston,tx
Gender: Male
| |  |  | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 50 on 7/27/2006 5:50 PM >
| | | | ok it all comes down to the artists morals, I myself am a graffiti artist throughout the years I learned thats its not about getting you name on a brick wall. Style is important, a whole piece thats takes 3 or more hours to complete is still vandalism, but its not as if i would etch my name into the glass on some building.(etch is a glass eater)But in the end graffiti is vandalism and against the law, but again it all comes down to the morals of the artist. I have never gone in to a building exploring and said" hey im gonna tag the fuck out of this place" I just wouldnt do it. Most of the shit you see in abandoned buildings is from some kid who thinks its cool. In houston depending where you go , there is graffiti everywhere. Not everyone likes it, but some people do. In the end its a form of art. Im sure someone will disagree with me, but hey just my 2 cents.
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BMac718
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 51 on 7/27/2006 7:35 PM >
| | | | 
required reading
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tzaone
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 52 on 7/27/2006 8:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by CaptOrbit
I don't think they care what happens, but they will...
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i play on rooftops, whats the problem? when i get into a new place i always aim for the highest spot. carefully. what does that have to do with this though? dont you go on rooftops?
make moves |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 53 on 7/27/2006 9:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by tzaone
i play on rooftops, whats the problem? when i get into a new place i always aim for the highest spot. carefully. what does that have to do with this though? dont you go on rooftops?
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Since I started it...I think he's referring to what you already stated when you said " laws are bullshit" and my statement as to see what happens. There's a big difference between exploring abandoned buildings, and active structures, especially ones that house people. As far as anyone knows you could be doing anything up there. I'm pointing it out nicely to you... but it ain't nothing to me.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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earthworm
 
location:
General Area
Gender: Male
| | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 54 on 7/27/2006 9:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Yeah if you tagged something in Iran they would prolly chopped off your hand, or just beat you senseless in jail for the next year. |
Not if it was: Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!
They'd give you a medal... or a plastic key. (ten points if you get it)
Try tagging something in Germany with anything to do with the h or n word, get caught and see what happens.
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once again, it depends which suburb you're in. There are still neo nazi groups over there. But I bet you already know what happens first hand, don't you blackhawk?
All that aside, even bad art is still art, just as a bad emotion is still an emotion. Art can be good, bad or indifferent, and it is up to the spectator to decide. (The Mona Lisa might be a masterpiece to you, but I hate it, or that tag is crap, but I love the way that it brings out such and such.)
As for someones earlier comment on tagging ruining the "post apocalyptic" feel at a site, what do you really think the apocalypse will look like? I get what your saying, but there could be many different versions of what the apocalypse is, just go to one of the many places and times when and where it has already happened ( and is happening). I'm not talking about a biblical apocalypse, I use it to illustrate the break down of any society. The apocalypse need not be a mad max dystopia, it could also be the tagging of an abandoned bunker. It might also be the reclaiming of that same bunker by the surrounding environment ( which is just about the same thing as tagging it).
[last edit 7/27/2006 9:35 PM by earthworm - edited 1 times]
Tourism, human circulation considered as consumption is fundamentally nothing more than the leisure of going to see what has become banal. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 55 on 7/27/2006 9:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by earthworm
once again, it depends which suburb you're in. There are still neo nazi groups over there. But I bet you already know what happens first hand, don't you blackhawk?
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Jail time. You can't name your pet hitler. Warm?
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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prometheus
location:
New England
Gender: Male
UER, a big pissing contest.
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 56 on 7/27/2006 9:52 PM >
| | | | Wow, talk about threadjacking. I assumed that with this title it wouldn't be a moral thread. If you disagree with it please stop hijacking the threads to post your views on the subject, we all know where you stand 50 threads later. I'd like to see some more "Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff" as the thread title suggests.
P.s. Ian_Evil's work is some of the best shit I've seen and its thought provoking, so tsk tsk on talking down to him.
Leave only footprints, take only pictures... unless its like really cool. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
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UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 57 on 7/27/2006 11:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by prometheus
Wow, talk about threadjacking. I assumed that with this title it wouldn't be a moral thread. If you disagree with it please stop hijacking the threads to post your views on the subject, we all know where you stand 50 threads later. I'd like to see some more "Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff" as the thread title suggests.
P.s. Ian_Evil's work is some of the best shit I've seen and its thought provoking, so tsk tsk on talking down to him.
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If you talk about vandalism your gonna get it, if you call that TJing so be it. No matter hoe many threads you post here on it. If you enjoy tagging, graf, advanced technics of B&E there are sites just for that. There is a difference between taking a pic of a abandoned building that has tags in/on it, and tagging one and posting the pics here!
As for e_e's art work, I never questioned his talent although it takes more than one stencil to be considered an accomplished artist...since you brought it up. It's his methods, morals(or lack of), and his warm endearing charm that he displays here that are the issues.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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HillbillyHorus
location:
Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 58 on 7/28/2006 4:05 PM >
| | | | Get off yer friggin high horses. Yeah yeah, taggers are evil people who can go to jail for a year for destroying beauty, you're a tresspasser who can go to jail for a year, you think up some bullshit "code of ethics" to make yourself feel good.
Go in drains!
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Tagging, Murals and other Artish Stuff
<Reply # 59 on 7/28/2006 4:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by Horus
Get off yer friggin high horses. Yeah yeah, taggers are evil people who can go to jail for a year for destroying beauty, you're a trespasser who can go to jail for a year, you think up some bullshit "code of ethics" to make yourself feel good.
Go in drains!
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Taggers are vandals. A trespasser is not unless they cause damage, moreover many times entering abandoned buildings is not trespassing. A municipal trespass is not a serious offense, and many times if trespassing is all your doing, a warning is all that will happen. As for drains, be careful where you go;after 911 many things are changing.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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