Infiltration

BigPoppaMikey This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details. location: Milpitas, California Gender: Male Don't follow me unless you want to... \| \| \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 60 on 3/30/2004 10:33 PM >

	Damn, Damien, can I go with you, you are my hero... Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers...

Ricotta

Nobler Donor
location:
Houston, TX
Gender: Male

De arimasu~

Re: Guard Dogs?
<Reply # 61 on 3/31/2004 2:00 AM >

Posted by DarkTreader
Damien, you can't always carry your broadsword with you while UE-ing.

I know, and that's why I also have a machete, dagger, and hand axe.

Posted by BigPoppaMikey
Damn, Damien, can I go with you, you are my hero...

Is that supposed to be sarcasm?
[last edit 3/31/2004 2:01 AM by Ricotta - edited 1 times]

BigPoppaMikey This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details. location: Milpitas, California Gender: Male Don't follow me unless you want to... \| \| \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 62 on 3/31/2004 2:32 AM >

	No, sarcasm is, 'Get real and stop living the AD&D games you play!' Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers...

Kbasa location: Gunnison/Crested Butte, co Gender: Male High Hopes \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 63 on 4/1/2004 11:53 PM >

	Yeah police dogs in colorado are considered police officers. Be prepared to face severe punishment for hurting theses animals. Shut the fuck up and ride that fucking Couchmobile!

Hawk location: Durham Region, Ontario Gender: Male Groovy \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 64 on 4/3/2004 8:00 PM >

	I don't know about US police dogs, and security dogs, but I've seen Toronto police dogs in action. The dogs will track somebody going across a building, up several sets of stairs, through halls and rooms, backtracking several times, all to find somebody hiding in a cupboard. I don't suggest hiding. As for being confronted by a police dog, most are trained to bark at the person until their handling officer arrives. If you move or try and hurt the dog, the dog will bite and the officer will lay the boots to you for hurting his partner. As for your typical 'junkyard dog', I'd stay the hell away from anywhere that I suspected to have guard dogs. People are stupid and easy to trick. Dogs can and will find you. Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most

Indigenous Insurgent location: Milwaukee, WI Gender: Male Only the Truth is revolutionary \| \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 65 on 4/4/2004 6:23 AM >

	I just had a few suggestions in regards to dog encounters. Note: I am offering this information presuming you are being attacked by a wild, junkyard, rabid, etc. dog. I DO NOT endorse using these tactics against a police or security guard. 1) Always check to see if there is an available escape route, preferably with obstacles the dog can't pass. A simple 6' chainlink fence is a good way to ditch a dog or at least give you a good head start. Don't bother climbing a tree unless you are sure you are running for your life. A dog has the patience to sit under that tree for hours on end. Also remember that the dog CAN and WILL eventually outrun you. 2) NEVER let an attacking dog get you on the ground! You lose a huge advantage once he has brought you down to his level. 3) If a dog is running at you, he will most likely leap at you in an attempt to bring you to the ground (see above). When he leaps, kick him as hard as you can in the chest. This can be enough to send him scampering. However, a seriously pissed off and/or rabid dog will not be so easy to dissuade. 4) Wrap your forearm up in a shirt, jacket or some other thick material. Hold your arm in front of you horizontally. This will get the dog to most likely grab it first. When he latches on, jab him in the eye, punch him in the nose or squeeze his lower jaw right behind the joint. (To get a better idea of where this spot is, firmly press your finger againt your jaw hinge right below your ear. Hurts, doesn't it?) 5) If the above tactics fail and he is still holding on to you (I'm presuming he will be holding onto your arm since even is you didn't follow #4, most people put their arms up reflexively. Therefore it is the most commonly attacked area) there is one ABSOLUTELY LAST RESORT. If you are on the ground, try to manuever the dog underneath you with his belly on the ground. You should be behind/on top of him. Place your knee on his upper back, pinning his body to the ground. Reach around and place your free and underneath his lower jaw towards the front. Put all your weight on your knee and pull his head back as fast and as hard as you possibly can. If you do this right, you should momentarily hear a loud muffled pop or crack (kinda like someone cracking their knuckles). You have now broken the dog's neck. Unfortunately, I have been forced to use these tactics before, including #5. So I can personally vouch for their effectiveness. I hope that you have found the above information useful. I also hope you never need to use it. Those who make peaceful change impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 66 on 4/4/2004 6:44 PM >

	I had a long distance run in with a dog on thanks giving. He tracked me however with his handler in tow through hevey woods I stayed out of his sight and hearing and was never chased up close. Since that time I did reserch. Red Storm posted some good info. SAS information Every breath you take, every move you make, a dog can detect it. Perhaps as much as a mile away under the right conditions. And an attack dog, trained to silence, can be on you literally before you know it; travelling at 15 metres a second and weighing anything up to 45 killograms, it is as lethal as any bullet. What can a man working behind enemy lines do to protect himself against these killers? In this section we're going to examine some of the dog evasion techniques taught to British Special Forces units. Dogs of war are trained to do specific jobs. Gaurd attack dogs are trained to detect, engage and, in some cases, to savage intruders or evaders either under the command of a handler or running free. Search dogs are adept at picking up and finding the source of airborne scents and are allowed to run free. going over an area of ground yard by yard. Tracker dogs, on the other hand run on a long leash with a handler. Ground scents are the trackers' specialty. Serch and tracker dogs lead their handlers to their target, but do not usually assult the fugitive, leaving that to the attack dogs, to the handlers or their combat back-up. Eyes, earss and noses Like most mammals ,except man, dogs have very poor eyesight. They don't see colours at all, only shades of grey, and then not very clearly. They can see you moving of course, and this is very likely to attract their attnetion. Because their eyes are low down to the ground they,re quick to see movement above the skyline. IF a dog's eyesight is only half as good as man's its range of hearing is twice as good. How far away they can hear you is affected by weather conditions, especially wind and rain. If the wind is blowing away from you and towards the dog, he's a lot more likely to hear you. Rain creates a background noise and makes individual sounds much more difficult to puck out. So take advantage of rain to get on the move. It's not just that a dog can hear you a long way off, he can also hear sounds that man can't. High-pitched squeaks and whistles that you don't know exist are part of a dog's everyday life. So tape those loose pieces of equipment to stop them from rubbing and catching. Thing about the way you use radios and other items of hardware. A clink of cooking utensils, a match can being struck, even the sound of the flame when you're cooking your meal can give away your position to a well trained dog. In fact if you were cooking a meal the chances are that he would smell you first- from anything up to a couple of miles away under the right conditions. Because while a dog's hearing is a lot keener then ours, his snes of smell is many thousands of times better. The strongest human body odour comes from the sweat lands. especially under the arms. Moving quickly, particularly when carrying a havy load of and wearing to many clothes, makes you sweat heavily. So does being tense, nervous or frightened. Eating various types of strongly flavoured food makes it worse, and so does not washing regularly. And it's not just the natural smells of our bodies that provide a target for the tracker dog's nose. Clothing especially when it's wet; soap and deodorants; leather; tobacco; polish and preservativies; petrol;oil; and many, many more smells that are a natural part of our everyday lives can give a dog a clue to your presence. A dog picks up scent in two different ways; from the air, and from contact with the ground, trees, plants and buildings. Airborne scents do not last very long; they are blown away by the wind quite quickly. Traves of movement A ground scent, on the other hand, maybe obvious to the dog for anything up to 48 hours. Ground scents are caused not just by you leaving your own smell on things you touch, but also by the movement itself. If you're wlaking on grass or pushing through vegetation you will crush leaves and stems with every movement. Even on bare ground you will release air and tiny quantities of moisture that have been trapped in the soil, which smell quite different from the fresh air above the ground. From the scent 'footprints' that you laeve behind a dog can even tell in which direction you're moving. And because you push off each step with your toes, the front of the footprint is more obvious than the heel, and it only takes a few steps for a dog to work out which way you're travelling/ Just as each person's footprints look slightly different to the eye, so to a dog is the mixture of scents in the smell footprint slightly different. THe dog recognizes this difference and so may be able to track one person even where there are a number of people travelling together, or where there are animals present. Methods of evasion are detailed in the special sections, but remember the general point; although a dog can outhear, outsmell and out run you, you can out-think him. To do that you must assess the skills of the dog opposing you, and use your wits and tactics to confuse all or most of its senses. Out-wit the dog or handler and you may escape where others may not. p156-163 Jon E. Lewis "The SAS Combat Handbook I wasnt going to add this however I figure it is need because of both educated but not always accurate posts. Combatting Attack Dogs Gaurd dogs and attack dogs either operat with a handler or are left to run free in a confined area. A dog that is running free in a compound may not even recognize his handler, but will attack absolutely anyone who comes into his territory. But whether the dog is on a leash or running free its training is designed to do just one thing - catch anybody who shouldn't be there. You do have one slight advantage when dealing with a guard dog - he's fixed in one place, more or less. (NOTE: I have come in contact with dogs trained to stay in a specific area. This means the dogs will literaly stay in a area and not attack unless you fall in a certian area it has been tought to walk through. I dont know what will happen if two dogs see you though.) 1 Always approach from down wind. 2 Take it slowly and easily to minimize exertion, and thereby cut down the amount of smelly sweat you secrete. 3 Keep as low as possible and use natural features of the ground. Windborne scent doesn't quite travel in straight lines, but any natural obstical will help. 4 Approach along paths used by other people. 5 When you get within 200 metres of the objective, don't stop for anything - dogs have been known to pick up scents even against the wind at this short of distance. 6 If you're dealing with a dog gaurding a building, try to get above the ground floor if you can; dogs have difficulty detecting people way above their heads. 7 If you find yourself close to a dog and handler unexpectedly, keep still. Guards have been known to pass within 10 metres of an intruder who's keeping perfectly still without detecting him. Sacrifical Defense If you can't evade the dog you have to immoblize him. And you can't do that effectively until the dog is within attack range. You have to let the dog bite you. Wrap protection around the forearm of the hand you don't use by choice. Arrange it in three layers. A soft one on the inside as padding; a hard one next to stop the dog's teeth penetrating; and lastly another softer layer to give the dog something to get his teeth into. Don't discourage the dog from attacking you, but make sure he takes the offered target; he will be more difficult to deal with the second time. When he's sunk his teeth into the padding, he's within reach, and you can deal with him. Evading Tracker Dogs So what can you do to fool the dog? Let's split the mission up into four phases; lying up, pre-contact, distant contact, and close contact, and close contact. Lying up If you have to spend any length of time in a lying up place always obay these simple rules, even if you have no proof that a search dog is operating. 1 Keep as close to the ground as possible. 2 Put most of your clothing over you so that the ground absorbs your scent rather than letting it out into the open air. 3 Breathe down into the ground or at least into the vegetation. 4 Keep as still as possible. 5 Bury rubbish under where you are lying. 6 No smoking, no fires wherever possible. 7 If you're discovered by anyone move away as fast as you can. Pre-contact Use all the normal physical camouflage tricks to blend into the environment, plus a few that are designed to throw the dog off the scent. 1 Travel over ground already used by other people or by animals. THis makes the dog work much harder to keep on your track. 2 If you're travelling as part of a group, split up from time to time. Double back on yourself. Leave a false trail wherever possible. 3 Use streams and running water to confuse the dog, but don't try to walk for too long in the steam itself - it will slow you down too much. Instead cross the stream diagonally, doubling back perhaps two or three times so that the dog can't tell which of your exit tracks is real one and which ones are dummies. 4 When you're preparing food, pay close attention to the direction of the wind. You must bury all wrapping and containers, but remember too to handle them as little as possible. The smell of the food is one thing, your smell on the wrappers tells the dog that it was your food. When you bury the remains, dont touch the ground with your hands. Use a metal tool of some sort. Whenever you can, sink the rubbish in deep water. The same goes for urine and faeces. Distant contact If you're sighted from a distance, speed becomes important. 1 Try to tire the dog and handler team; it will be easier to destroy their confidence in each other if they make mistakes through tiredness. 2 If you're part of a group then split up straight away, and arrange a rendezvous for later. 3 Make for hard ground. A road or a rocky surface makes and holds much less scent than a soft one. 4 If you are in wood country or scrub, double back and change your direction as often as you can. 5 The tracker dog will be on a long lead. If you can get him tangled up ou can increase the distance between you and him and maybe break off the contact entirely. Close contact If the dog catches up with you you're in deep trouble. Not so much from the dog, he's done his job in finding you. Now you're in trouble from the handler and whatever combat back up he may have available. 1 Forget the dog for the moment. You'll know from the look of him wheather he's an attack dog or a tracker. If he's a tracker, he probably won't come near you. 2 Move as fast as you can. Get out of sight of the handler. 3 Get rid of loose pieces of clothing, food (especially food - the dog may be distracted by it when he comes looking for you) and any other pieces of kit that aren't vital to your mission or your survival. 4 If the dog sticks with you, you must kill or immobilize it. [last edit 4/4/2004 6:45 PM by Mark - edited 1 times] "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

orangeindiana

Noble Donor
location:
Texas
Gender: Male

Meh.

Re: Guard Dogs?
<Reply # 67 on 4/5/2004 12:07 AM >

Posted by Mark
Every breath you take, every move you make, a dog can detect it.

Just like Sting!

Man, I love having an Army guy on here. Thanks for posting that up. Probably the most useful information in this thread yet, since our real concerns should be in evading dogs, not fighting them.

HAMMERTIME location: Reading Pennsylvania Gender: Male mmm, a box . . . just a box \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 68 on 4/5/2004 2:55 AM >

	Here are a couple of dog repeling substances that I just stumbled upon. From USA Weekend April 2 - 4, 2004 on page 20. Article title, "Pretty and Poison-Free". It states, "Dogs and cats are turned off by the pungent scent of a new variety of coleus - Coleus canina - says Cheryl Smith, the author of Dog Friendly Gardens, Garden Friendly Dogs. Try planting this annual, with dark green foilage and lavender flowers, around vegatable and flower gardens." Also, "Some plants, such as dieffenbachia, are irritating to pets and people." It suggests "The ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center lists toxic and non-toxic plants at www.apcc.aspca.org"> . These substances could possibly be found and ground to sprinkle where you tinkle or on your mission routes. I mentioned Red pepper before but while reviewing my notes, I noticed that ammonia is also good for hindering a dogs ability to smell you. Macadamia nuts: If eaten it makes the dog sick and may paralize his rear legs but the effects wear off. This according to Reader's Digest article. Ammonia on clothing: In the book, Escape From Controlled Custody, it mentions that leaving an article of clothing behind with ammonia on it may help your escape. The dog and handler will approach the clothing and the dog will sniff it. After inhaling the ammonia, the dog will not be effective in tracking for the rest of the day. Creosote shoe covers: Mentioned in the book, Hidden Evidence, by David Owen, page 36; robbers soaked their shoe covers in creosote in order to hinder tracking dogs. (Don't ask me what creosote is or where it can be obtained, I have no clue). Blankets and nets are a humane option that leaves no trace but I, myself, would not stand in front of a charging dog without either a weapon or that Anti-Bear suit that that guy has spent millions in designing. Think E-Bay has one of those suits used yet? HAMMER Oh, I also bought some of that Scent Killer spray that hunters use to help hide themselves from deer. I used it once while looking for deer but have no idea if it actually works or if it is the biggest scam since snake oil. You can also get charcoal suits cheap (about $ 20 - 30 bucks ) that the military uses to protect themselves from NBC stuff (bio-nastys) but I'd only wear it during the winter as you would roast to death if you wear it during the summer. [last edit 4/5/2004 3:20 AM by HAMMERTIME - edited 1 times]

Arkan location: LaSalle County, Illinois Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 69 on 4/5/2004 3:15 AM >

	Whistles have already been talked about but has anyone ever had any experience with those electronic dog deterrents that emit a very high frequency signal? It seems like a good idea but then again I don't think I would trust it without actually hearing a few success stories. http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/animal/dogchaser.htm I used to bicycle a lot in the country and often times simply pulling out a can of pepper spray would cause the dog to stop. And if they didn't stop they would soon learn to after they caught a blast of OC. Me and my dad "trained" quite a few dogs that way. Lately I've been thinking of picking up another deterrent such as perhaps that ultrasonic thing or maybe just one of those retractable batons. Pepper spray will stop your regular every day dog but I am more worried about coming across a rabid/psycho dog in which I'm interested in a fool proof weapon like a nice baton.

HAMMERTIME location: Reading Pennsylvania Gender: Male mmm, a box . . . just a box \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 70 on 4/5/2004 3:26 AM >

	Zeus, Check out page 3 of this forum, I own a Dazer but don't know if I would use it on the same dog twice. I also like to bike and have carried it but have yet to try it on a dog intent on making my blood and flesh it's "Makes it own gravy" formula. It will make a dog leave a room and keep it off the couch but use with caution or try it on the other side of a chain link fence first. HAMMER

Servo

Re: Guard Dogs?
<Reply # 71 on 4/5/2004 5:39 AM >

Posted by Zeus
Pepper spray will stop your regular every day dog but I am more worried about coming across a rabid/psycho dog in which I'm interested in a fool proof weapon like a nice baton.

The collapsible batons are nice; that's usually what I carry for UE trips instead of my handgun (as the baton would get me in much less legal trouble). Just realize though, that if you hit the dog with any force in the head, you'll kill it dead. If that's the intended effect, then more power to you.

Stench \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 72 on 4/5/2004 7:02 AM >

	Roll some chocolate bars around in a bag of dog food then throw them into the area they're gaurding, it'll either kill the little shits or make them realy fucking sick. I cant think of a place that I want to get into so bad that I would kill a dog, but if its that important to you I guess you have no choice.

BigPoppaMikey This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details. location: Milpitas, California Gender: Male Don't follow me unless you want to... \| \| \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 73 on 4/5/2004 4:16 PM >

	Collapsible batons, I assume you people are referring to the ASP Baton. Just to let you know in over 35 states, unless you are a law enforcement officer, it is a felony to possess one. You can buy them legally all you want, but still a felony to possess one. And if you carry it during the commission of a crime and are caught with it, who knows... EDIT: Spelling [last edit 4/5/2004 4:51 PM by BigPoppaMikey - edited 1 times] Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers...

Servo

Re: Guard Dogs?
<Reply # 74 on 4/5/2004 4:41 PM >

Posted by BigPoppaMikey
Just to let you know in over 35 states, unless you are a law ernforcement officer, it is a felony to possess one.

They're legal here.

I would guess they're not in commie pinko Kalifornia.

_{it's a joke, son}

[last edit 4/5/2004 4:41 PM by Servo - edited 1 times]

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 75 on 4/5/2004 5:33 PM >

	Well I much rather not kill a dog then incapistate it. At least taht is the hope. "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

Indigenous Insurgent

location:
Milwaukee, WI
Gender: Male

Only the Truth is revolutionary

Re: Guard Dogs?
<Reply # 76 on 4/5/2004 8:28 PM >

Posted by Stench
Roll some chocolate bars around in a bag of dog food then throw them into the area they're gaurding, it'll either kill the little shits or make them realy fucking sick. I cant think of a place that I want to get into so bad that I would kill a dog, but if its that important to you I guess you have no choice.

In my opinion, this is just extremely cruel. Giving a dog enough chocolate can kill it, but it is by no means a quick death. The dog will most likely suffer for up to an entire day before it dies. The chemical in chocolate which poisons dogs, theobromine, will cause extreme abdomimal pain as well as vomiting blood.

Not pleasant.

Not trying to flame here, just offering some facts to give pause to anyone who may consider this option

Those who make peaceful change impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

DarkTreader Gender: Male \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 77 on 4/5/2004 10:31 PM >

	As reference material: Someone mentioned rubbing soles in creosote. That can be found in any chimney - it's the dark, soot-like residue that's cleaned out when you clean a chimney. A lot of fireplaces that use wood have creosote detectors built into the temperature gauge - this lets you know whether the fire is burning low enough to produce creosote in any sort of measurable quantity. And, as for throwing dogs off of your trail... harsh spices, directly inhaled by ANY dog will take them out for a good long while. I mean, c'mon. Their sense of smell is a lot better than ours, and I'm sure most of you knwo what YOU go through when you take a nice snort of cayenne or something. Just drop some of that directly into one of your footprints, where the dog is exceedingly likely to have its nose, and continue on your way. You'll probably hear a nice little howl whenever the dog finds it, because you've just temporarily burned out his nasal cavity... but it shouldn't do any lasting damage. Slaves used to use this trick back in the day to avoid dogs tracking them. IT worked then, and dogs are basically trained now the same way. Same evasion tactics should still apply. Losers go home... winners go home and fuck the prom queen

Arkan location: LaSalle County, Illinois Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 78 on 4/5/2004 10:54 PM >

	Thanks Hammer. I could've sworn I read the entire thread but I guess I skipped the third page. I'll check the laws on those batons, they are probably illegal then. Illinois usually has pretty strict weapons laws. Although I bet carrying a baton would have no greater legal ramifications that have a bottle of pepper spray.

BigPoppaMikey This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details. location: Milpitas, California Gender: Male Don't follow me unless you want to... \| \| \| \|	Re: Guard Dogs? <Reply # 79 on 4/5/2004 11:00 PM >

	Once more, depends where you are. In California, it is a felony. Possession of a deadly weapon with the possible consequences of 16 months, 2 years, or 3 years in prison. More than likely, probation though. On the flip side, WHO WANTS PROBATION? You are in the system after that and screwed... Just check the laws in your state AND county. Call the local police from a pay phone and ask, they will tell you the laws concerning batons. xxxxxx ALBERTA, CANADA-ILLEGAL 1 - ALBERTA ITEM 1 Prohibited Weapons Regulations; ASP Batons and SAP Gloves That SAP Gloves and ASP Batons be included in the prohibited weapons orders made pursuant to s 84 of the Criminal Code. xxxxxx TEXAS-ILLEGAL The ARMED non-commissioned officer? There have been four cases that have come to the attention of the Austin office for the Texas Commission on Private Security, which have involved non-commissioned security officers carrying either handguns or asp batons at the direction of their employer. Two cases involve security officers carrying an asp baton on a premise licensed to sell alcohol, which aggravates this class A misdemeanor to a third degree felony. There are also two cases in which the non-commissioned security officer was instructed by his employer to carry a hand gun. Many times the security officer relies on his manager or supervisor to direct him with the belief that he will be conducting his assignment properly. In this same vein, the security officer would believe these instructions will also be in compliance. Compliance with law does not stop with Chapter 1702 Texas Occupations Code; it also includes the Texas Penal Code. In this situation Chapter 46 of the Penal Code should be mandatory reading. This chapter defines weapons, unlawfully carrying a weapon, places weapons are prohibited, prohibited weapons, and nonapplicability. Many persons enter the security field to gain exposure to the law enforcement field. Many will use this experience as a stepping stone to law enforcement positions. At least two of the security officers mentioned above, have plans to become peace officers in the state of Texas. One of the officers above was charged with a Class A misdemeanor; he has been turned away by several police departments. A second officer mentioned above has plans to attend a law enforcement academy this fall; he may have a difficult time with a felony charge pending. A felony conviction means the loss of voting rights, and you may no longer possess a firearm. We urge the managers of guard companies to stress the consequences of carrying a weapon without a commission card. xxxxxx GEORGIA-ILLEGAL NON-LETHAL WEAPON – The ASP baton is the only authorized baton to be carried by officers. All non-lethal weapons not authorized by this General Order are prohibited and will not be carried by officers of Police Department unless authorized in writing by The Chief of Police. Department issued OC Spray and/or an Air Taser may be carried by sworn personnel as approved by The Chief of Police. (Flashlights will be used for illumination purposes only. The only exception will be in a life or death situation.) xxxxxx ENGLAND/UNITED KINGDOM-ILLEGAL CS Spray is classed as a FIREARM and therefor you will most certainly get a jail sentence to having one in public or in your home. Not sure about tazers but I can garentee they are illegal (Forbidhened item - Arrestable offence wherever you have it - Jail sentence proberly too). Re the CS spray, if you were going to get it, where would you actually but it because no where in the UK sells it and you can only buy pepper spray in the US and they don't even allow it to be shipped here?? If you were to decide on a expandable baton, they are only offensive weapons which means you can have it in your home but as soon as you go out of your home you can be arrested. xxxxxx Look at this link for laws in states/countries concerning 'stun' weapons. http://www.1home-security.meridian1.net/default.asp?S=E3&Document=STATE+LAWS&NID=1470140 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX All I am saying is be careful. You get caught, it is your ass, not mine. And these are the only ones that I could find with a QUICK search. Check your local police department concerning ALL weapons and what the law is. It is pretty stupid to get arrested with something because you did not know it was illegal and did not ditch it (not that I am saying ditch your weapons when the cops come, it is again YOUR CHOICE). Be an idiot and end up in jail... EDIT: Spelling and info [last edit 4/5/2004 11:46 PM by BigPoppaMikey - edited 1 times] Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers...

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