Infiltration

Stevenski location: Columbus, OH Gender: Male \| \|	Legal question- Tandem locks < on 3/9/2006 11:22 PM >

	Recently while scouting an abandoned site in Columbus I noticed evidence of a tandem lock setup. I'd read about these from the tunnel folks where the respective city municipals would wrap a chain around the gates into a drain or tunnel and then pad lock it, then the tunnel folks would come and cut the chain with a pair of bolt cutters and then put their own lock in place of the cut link, effectively giving themselves a key to that gate, while providing the security that the municipality wants for keeping kids out of the tunnel. My questions are: is this B&E? Have you ever done it? Any negative ramifications?

junkyard location: LaCrosse, WI Gender: Male Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat. \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 1 on 3/9/2006 11:27 PM >

	Why would you even ask? You have only 2 choices, You will either do it, or not do it. Besides this would be more up Krenta's alley. [last edit 3/9/2006 11:27 PM by junkyard - edited 1 times] I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner! Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite. Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com

Stevenski location: Columbus, OH Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 2 on 3/9/2006 11:31 PM >

	I'm not planning on doing it. I'm just wanting some dialog about this. People's thoughts, and better yet, stories.

wooble location: Surrey, UK Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 3 on 3/9/2006 11:39 PM >

	I'd imagine it would be burglary or at the very least criminal damage because you've destroyed part of the chain to gain access to the place (In some places you do not have to have actually taken anything to be prosecuted for burglary). However I doubt they'd be able to pin either on you as long as you're not caught in the act of fitting the extra padlock. I've never done it myself, but only because I've never needed to. The disadvantages are limited to getting caught in the act brandishing a large cutting tool near a locked door, and after the act, losing your padlock and possibly facing improved security at the site if the owners decide to rectify the situation.

Freak location: Usually Alaska, now MSP. Gender: Male Hypocrite \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 4 on 3/9/2006 11:52 PM >

	Finding multiple locks on a gate or door isn't usually evidence of explorers. Sometimes it's multiple property owners, or different agencies who need to access the same area (water dept, fire dept, parks dept, etc). It's always funny when there's a big beefy chain and a bunch of high-security locks, and then some clueless official slaps a $5 masterlock in the series Turn off the internet and go play outside. http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137

Stevenski location: Columbus, OH Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 5 on 3/9/2006 11:52 PM >

	Although the idea of having my own personal key to the front door of a site... I'd have to be pretty sure of myself in the risks/rewards ratio before attempting something that is likely B&E.

dev Passed away September 23rd, 2006. \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 6 on 3/10/2006 12:14 AM >

	it's whatever you make of it. personally, i wholeheartedly support it. one link out of a chain and your own lock is a whole lot nicer than prying some boards.

tron_2.0 location: Ohio Gender: Male \| \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 7 on 3/10/2006 12:48 AM >

	i imagine it is b&e, look it up, though: http://findlaw.com/# [quote][i]Posted by yokes[/i] I find your lack of coziness.... disturbing. [/quote]

Krawnik location: Kingston/Toronto Gender: Male Raiders of the Lost Architecture \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 8 on 3/10/2006 1:18 AM >

	I imagine that anything any of us does could qualify as B&E if certain officials were in a charges-pressing kind of a mood. But from what I've read about the technique, while it may technically and legally be destruction of property or B&E, ultimately you aren't doing anything terribly wrong in the ethical sense. You're not a vandal or arsonist, you're an appreciator. And if you can appreciate the drains and the city can have its security, I say go for it. Everybody wins. In fact it sounds so clever that I think I'll do this myself if I get an oppurtunity, so thanks for the idea =P friggin' racists messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women. RIP, Ninj.

PAWolf

Not from Pennsylvania
location:
KCMO
Gender: Male

We haven't located us yet.

Re: Legal question- Tandem locks
<Reply # 9 on 3/10/2006 1:37 AM >

Posted by Stephen

My questions are:

is this B&E?
Have you ever done it?
Any negative ramifications?

Probably
Yes
If someone goes down their they will know you were there and possibly take more measures to keep you out.

Make Beer, Not War.

Junix location: Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada Gender: Male Resident Firebrand \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 10 on 3/10/2006 11:01 PM >

	If you use a professionally lock, your not going to be noticed. It isnt as complicated as you all think. These are city workers (presumably, private citizens are NOT the same) They want to accomplish whatever hellish task sent them into that dark abyss and get out without gatting themselves in trouble. If the chain were cut they would report it or get it replaced. If there is a lock on their they dont recognise their going to assume another department needed access to it. RUAUER? "Security Measures: Creepy guy in trailer comes out at the slightest sound." -notwearingpants "And were off. N." -nobody

underdark

Gender: Male

Re: Legal question- Tandem locks
<Reply # 11 on 3/11/2006 12:20 AM >

Posted by Stephen

is this B&E?
Have you ever done it?
Any negative ramifications?

Umm, this is easy...
#1-YES
#2-well, yeah
#3-well, no. But it was a different situation. The odds of getting caught when I did it were about 0%

Jmanbasketball1988 Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 12 on 3/11/2006 2:35 AM >

	I dunno...maybe its just me. I'm a guy that thinks about odds 24/7. probability at its finest. unless this is a guarded place, and i dont see why you wouldnt attempt it. i mean, go at 2-3am and cut the chain and slap your own lock on it. you could be in and out in a matter of minutes. now here are the odds. what are th eodds that sumbody with juristiction or authority powerful enough to take u in or prosecute you is going to walk by at 2-3am? like just think, what the hell are the odds of that happening? pretty slim. i kno wlawyas considering odds could get u into trouble one day, but in this case you'll be in and out within minutes. dont even explore that day, just get the lock situation handled and come back another day for the exploration. i'd say go for it bro...because you'll be in and out, and this time the odds are definitley in your favor... I climb things.

underdark Gender: Male \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 13 on 3/11/2006 1:39 PM >

	The situation when I did it was really different from a sewer grate or abandoned site. I bypassed a chain before, but on a gate on a set of gas well trails. Between the property owner, gas well operators, electric company, and whoever else there were several locks on the chain, and I'm sure none of the other lock owners knew which ones belonged to who. In a city sewer or abandonment, there are likely fewer authorized persons, and they might be more likely to notice a new lock. Just my experience.

wing_nut location: Columbus, OH Gender: Male "Those aren't crickets..." \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 14 on 3/13/2006 10:23 AM >

	Seen this done. Usually comes out alright for all concerned, but best not to draw attention to it all the same. I personally see no moral problems with the idea as long as your lock is as strong as both the chain links and the other lock. In short, don't compromise their security. It seems no more illegal than trespass, imho. We see the light at the end of the tunnel... and turn the other way.

danhooligan location: Toronto, ON Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Legal question- Tandem locks <Reply # 15 on 3/16/2006 9:43 PM >

	I think the fact that if you're caught with bolt cutters near this chained in area would probably constitute some sort of charge speaks volumes about this issue. In reality, though we do appreciate the finer things in life (such as drains), this appreciation doesn't give us the authority to go and do things like put our own locks on gates. This is all IMHO though.

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