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MindHacker
   
location:
Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
 |  | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 20 on 2/26/2006 7:30 PM >
|  | | | hokay, explanation time! Meant to be humourous. No one was in danger. Nada. And this was on my college campus after the staff had left, so no one working for a living. And they werent trapped propper, they coulda pressed door-open cause they were still on the same floor they tried to leave. Inconsiderate? maybe, but it's hard to believe you've never inconvenienced anyone. Foolish? not really, but it doesn't bother me if you think so.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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Freak
  
location:
Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| |  | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 21 on 2/27/2006 4:02 AM >
|  | | | Making an elevator key from a coathanger is easy. Just look at the hole in the outer doors (sometimes it's blocked by a keyed plug). Then when the door are open, look between them at the area behind that hole, and you'll see what pops the door. Then think about what kind of twisting/bending/turning is required to get something through the hole and into the right position to hit that popper. If you can't figure it out I guess you didn't play with legos or erector sets enough as a kid, and you probably shouldn't be messing with the more complicated stuff on top of the elevator.
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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rainman8889
 
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 22 on 2/28/2006 2:35 AM >
| | | | Posted by Freak
Making an elevator key from a coathanger is easy.
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True. I loaned a coat hanger to an elevator mechanic once. He had to open a door to the elevator that closed with his tools inside and wouldn't open. Among his tools is a hook that looks like a coat hanger with a couple of bends in it. He had that door open in two seconds with the coat hanger. Pretty cool to watch!
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 23 on 3/16/2006 2:09 AM >
| | | | And once you get in... this is what you will see above you..
In consideration for other people, call the elevator to the floor you're trying to get in from, send it to another floor and make sure nobody's inside of it.
Make an effort to not entrap anyone in it.
In more urban areas, most hoistway access hole is fitted with a lock or requires a specialized key.
[last edit 3/16/2006 2:10 AM by Deuterium - edited 1 times]
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Swimr
location:
Edmonton, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 24 on 3/20/2006 6:02 AM >
| | | | I've seen elevators however without those little holes on them. No naturally I assume there would have to be another way of opening it right?
Generally would it violate some kind of safety code to not have the doors open somehow?
School, Sustinence, Swim, Sleep, Repeat. UE when possible. |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 25 on 3/20/2006 12:31 PM >
| | | | Posted by Swimr
I've seen elevators however without those little holes on them. No naturally I assume there would have to be another way of opening it right?
Generally would it violate some kind of safety code to not have the doors open somehow?
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There isn't necessarily a hole for each floor. I've seen a design without one too. If there isn't one on each floor, typically there's one at the extreme top and bottom floors.
I'm not sure about safety codes, but I'm sure elevators built to meet 1960s codes don't have to be immediately be made to comply with new installation codes applicable to elevators installed in 2006.
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Piper
location:
Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 26 on 3/20/2006 5:44 PM >
| | | | I've read one or two threads about elevator surfing and I'll put in my 2 cents here like I have others.
Surfing an elevator is one of the stupidest things you can do. If you need the thrills I strongly suggest you look elsewhere.
I work in the elevator industry and even after 10 years I hate working on top of a car. I actually feel more comfortable working on a bare platform during the construction stage then a finished car. I won't give an information on poppin doors as someone else mentioned I couldn't handle it if someone got hurt or killed because of some advice I put on this forum.
There isn't a whole lot of room on top to stand and even less to make a mistake. That counterweight runs pretty quiet, my last job was a repair in a 50 storey building. Couldn't always hear the counterweight and to check to see if black or dark gray ropes are moving in a dark shaft wasn't easy if we spotted them at all. I've stripped out cab interiors only to watch the cab shot up to the top due to reduced weight and there's no way to stop it. JP mentions space on the sides - if you can fit into a 6 - 8 space congrats and hanging on to the bottom - good luck. Elevators are designed depending on the building to run usually anywhere from 100 to 1500 + feet per min. Express elevators at the World Trade ran at 27 feet per sec.
Had to throw this in as I really don't want to see any few explorers hurt or lost.
Piper
It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 27 on 3/20/2006 6:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by Piper
I've read one or two threads about elevator surfing and I'll put in my 2 cents here like I have others.
Surfing an elevator is one of the stupidest things you can do. If you need the thrills I strongly suggest you look elsewhere.
I work in the elevator industry and even after 10 years I hate working on top of a car. I actually feel more comfortable working on a bare platform during the construction stage then a finished car. I won't give an information on poppin doors as someone else mentioned I couldn't handle it if someone got hurt or killed because of some advice I put on this forum.
There isn't a whole lot of room on top to stand and even less to make a mistake. That counterweight runs pretty quiet, my last job was a repair in a 50 storey building. Couldn't always hear the counterweight and to check to see if black or dark gray ropes are moving in a dark shaft wasn't easy if we spotted them at all. I've stripped out cab interiors only to watch the cab shot up to the top due to reduced weight and there's no way to stop it. JP mentions space on the sides - if you can fit into a 6 - 8 space congrats and hanging on to the bottom - good luck. Elevators are designed depending on the building to run usually anywhere from 100 to 1500 + feet per min. Express elevators at the World Trade ran at 27 feet per sec.
Had to throw this in as I really don't want to see any few explorers hurt or lost.
Piper
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Piper, your post makes good sense. This thread and the others with similar topics are great if your studying to win your Darwin award. Problems is if your tampering with public elevators you may injure or kill someone other than yourself.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 28 on 3/21/2006 4:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Piper, your post makes good sense. This thread and the others with similar topics are great if your studying to win your Darwin award. Problems is if your tampering with public elevators you may injure or kill someone other than yourself.
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Almost impossible to harm other people. Elevators are quite sturdy and ones in active service are regularly inspected for safety.
Elevators are so over-safetied. There are multiple ropes for redundancy and each rope is capable of supporting the weight of the entire cab + full load.
In an extremely unlikely event should ALL of them fail at once, there are passive safety devices that will wedge in a brake shoe into either rails. These are activated when the elevator experiences an excessive acceleration.
Except in a malfunctioning elevator, when ANY exterior door is opened, the elevator will not move and once you're on top of the elevator cab, the maintenance controls gives you a complete control of the car.
You will see something like that on top of the cab.
The elevator will not operate at all when you have the switch in "stop" position. Once you place the other switch to "inspect" then you put the red switch to "run", the elevator can only be operated by you from that control box.
For even more safety, you have to hold the "safe" button at the same time you push up or down to make it move and it will only move at fractions of normal speed.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 29 on 3/21/2006 5:05 AM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
Almost impossible to harm other people. Elevators are quite sturdy and ones in active service are regularly inspected for safety.
Elevators are so over-safetied. There are multiple ropes for redundancy and each rope is capable of supporting the weight of the entire cab + full load.
In an extremely unlikely event should ALL of them fail at once, there are passive safety devices that will wedge in a brake shoe into either rails. These are activated when the elevator experiences an excessive acceleration.
Except in a malfunctioning elevator, when ANY exterior door is opened, the elevator will not move and once you're on top of the elevator cab, the maintenance controls gives you a complete control of the car.
You will see something like that on top of the cab.
The elevator will not operate at all when you have the switch in "stop" position. Once you place the other switch to "inspect" then you put the red switch to "run", the elevator can only be operated by you from that control box.
For even more safety, you have to hold the "safe" button at the same time you push up or down to make it move and it will only move at fractions of normal speed.
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The purpose of your thread is to defeat these safety devices, and interlocks. The design of a modern elevator is written in blood. The Darwin award is especially suited for those too dumb, or cleaver to live. I'm definitely taking the stairs.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 30 on 3/21/2006 5:11 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
The purpose of your thread is to defeat these safety devices, and interlocks. The design of a modern elevator is written in blood. The Darwin award is especially suited for those too dumb, or cleaver to live. I'm definitely taking the stairs.
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There are times when accessing the hoistway can be extremely useful in exploration.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 31 on 3/21/2006 5:22 AM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
There are times when accessing the hoistway can be extremely useful in exploration.
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Until someone else falls into that door that should have been closed. Easy to do in dark hallways.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 32 on 3/21/2006 6:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Until someone else falls into that door that should have been closed. Easy to do in dark hallways.
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You don't leave it open.
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Piper
location:
Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 33 on 3/21/2006 6:02 PM >
| | | | Deuterium
You are correct in theory if the car top unit is wired right. I've seen allot of weird and down right stupid things on site visit's to active buildings. If a building owner wants to cut a few corners and the company on contract to look after the elevator is willing (some are) they will.
Don't trust any safety factors unless you know what's been done to them. Their was an accident in downtown Toronto not too long ago. Still under investigation but that elevator a direct hydro (no ropes) was inspected a few weeks before. The hydraulic's failed and the car dropped five stories with passengers inside. Everyone survived but hurt badly. I won't get into the details about it but just to let you know a direct hydro has no safeties (not required by code) like a roped or traction car - basically no brakes. As it is a one in a million type of thing but it does happen.
Don't believe other people are smart enough to know any better either. I've been standing in empty elevators stripped of interior finishes and people still get in going around your tools and a barrier.
Passenger: Floor 12 please.
Me: Sorry this car is out of service.
Passenger: But I'm late for a meeting.
Me: Sir the operating panel has been removed.
Passenger: Can't you do something - I'm really late.
Piper
It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase. |
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rainman8889
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 34 on 3/22/2006 1:37 AM >
| | | | Posted by Piper
Deuterium
You are correct in theory if the car top unit is wired right. I've seen allot of weird and down right stupid things on site visit's to active buildings. If a building owner wants to cut a few corners and the company on contract to look after the elevator is willing (some are) they will.
Don't trust any safety factors unless you know what's been done to them. Their was an accident in downtown Toronto not too long ago. Still under investigation but that elevator a direct hydro (no ropes) was inspected a few weeks before. The hydraulic's failed and the car dropped five stories with passengers inside. Everyone survived but hurt badly. I won't get into the details about it but just to let you know a direct hydro has no safeties (not required by code) like a roped or traction car - basically no brakes. As it is a one in a million type of thing but it does happen.
Don't believe other people are smart enough to know any better either. I've been standing in empty elevators stripped of interior finishes and people still get in going around your tools and a barrier.
Passenger: Floor 12 please.
Me: Sorry this car is out of service.
Passenger: But I'm late for a meeting.
Me: Sir the operating panel has been removed.
Passenger: Can't you do something - I'm really late.
Piper
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Well put Piper! I've seen lots of times people would ignore safety barriers and simple instructions and then when something happens to them, they're screaming bloody blue murder and talking law suit.
When someone who is not qualified in servicing elevators starts messing with the safeties, they can create a hazardous situation that can end up killing someone. And I don't care how well a machine is designed, built or maintained. Too many things can go wrong and in my opinion, an untrained person going into an elevator shaft (active or not) is just begging for trouble.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 35 on 3/22/2006 2:00 AM >
| | | | Posted by Piper
Deuterium
You are correct in theory if the car top unit is wired right. I've seen allot of weird and down right stupid things on site visit's to active buildings. If a building owner wants to cut a few corners and the company on contract to look after the elevator is willing (some are) they will.
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Don't use the elevator or climb up anything. I read about an accident where a guy got decapitated when he tried to get on the elevator as he tried to get inside as the door was closing. The elevator started moving, because door interlock safety was incorrectly wired. If you're going to climb up a wall mounted ladder, how do you know the bolts are anchored properly?
Piper
Don't trust any safety factors unless you know what's been done to them. Their was an accident in downtown Toronto not too long ago. Still under investigation but that elevator a direct hydro (no ropes) was inspected a few weeks before. The hydraulic's failed and the car dropped five stories with passengers inside. Everyone survived but hurt badly. I won't get into the details about it but just to let you know a direct hydro has no safeties (not required by code) like a roped or traction car - basically no brakes. As it is a one in a million type of thing but it does happen. |
I heard about this accident also, but what's the point? You realize that there's a significantly higher risk of getting into a serious auto related accident on the way to a UEing site? If you're worried about very statistically insignificant accident, I would say don't even drive.
When it is determined that building is unsafe, the state condemns it and obviously, the typical building condemned for structural reasons pose a greater risk to people entering than an active building. If you're scared of risks, why would you even go in?
Don't believe other people are smart enough to know any better either. I've been standing in empty elevators stripped of interior finishes and people still get in going around your tools and a barrier.
Passenger: Floor 12 please.
Me: Sorry this car is out of service.
Passenger: But I'm late for a meeting.
Me: Sir the operating panel has been removed.
Passenger: Can't you do something - I'm really late.
Piper
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Well if someone is dumb enough to force open the hoistway door, walk in and fall into the shaft, he will do it whether you're UEing at the time or not, so your action isn't the determining factor in their safety.
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 36 on 3/22/2006 2:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by rainman8889
Well put Piper! I've seen lots of times people would ignore safety barriers and simple instructions and then when something happens to them, they're screaming bloody blue murder and talking law suit.
When someone who is not qualified in servicing elevators starts messing with the safeties, they can create a hazardous situation that can end up killing someone. And I don't care how well a machine is designed, built or maintained. Too many things can go wrong and in my opinion, an untrained person going into an elevator shaft (active or not) is just begging for trouble.
That's my 2 cents worth.
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Qualified or not, if you don't know what you're doing you can get hurt as I pointed out in my elevator tutorial. Qualification does not matter in the case of a catastrophic failure. If the safety brake and all the ropes fail at the sametime, the elevator car is going to crash to the ground whether you're just a normal passenger or a veteran elevator mechanic.
And you know what, if you call up the state labor department and ask if going into a condemned building, confined space, drains and just about all the places UEers likes to go they're going to give you the same answer you're giving "unqualifed persons going into these places is dangerous"
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 37 on 3/22/2006 2:20 AM >
| | | | Posted by J Peterman
Theres enough room at the bottom right? I could hang onto the bottom of the elevator and ride it up/down. And there is a ladder that runs along side right? There is enough room on the sides to not get clipped by the dropping elevator?
Ok new thread posted http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=28680
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Hanging on the bottom? My advise is don't even think about it. If you want to ride it up and down, you get on the top of the elevator. There is a ladder but it only goes up from the elevator pit up to the lowest floor doors. Most elevator shafts do not give you much clearance in the sides Even if the ladder went all the way up, you will get crushed between the elevator car and the wall when it moves.
With elevators made in the last two decades or so(and maybe even older, but I don't know) there is enough room in the bottom for you to crouch down even if the elevator goes to the lowest floor and its constructed in such way that even if the elevator control malfunctions, physical guard will prevent it from coming down any further.
On the top, there's about 2' of clearance between top of the car and the metal upper frame. If elevator goes up uncontrollably, the metal guard will strike the top of the shaft and you will have enough room to lay low on top of the car.
In either cases though, you will be entrapped in the small space until service is called to get you out.
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Piper
location:
Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 38 on 3/22/2006 7:16 PM >
| | | | Deuterium
I understand there are risks involved in pretty much anything you do. Sure there is a risk going into any building active or not but why increase the risk you are taking by going into the elevator shaft. I just wish to warn others of this forum of possible risks with an elevator.
Example you mentioned about a 2' space between the roof and crosshead (frame) this is true in some cases but that space can be 6" to 30" by code. In a larger car you could have an additional sheave or pulley located above or below the crosshead creating a pinching hazard. Also there is space to lay low both top and bottom but no much. Bottom 24" x 48" x 24" and top 24" x 36" x 42" and those are the minimum, these areas or refuge space is to be marked on the car top and pit floor. Sometimes they are, most times not.
Note the bottom height of 24" is when the car has hit the buffers in the pit and they are bottomed out. You do of course have additional runby both top and bottom factored in on top of these numbers but not alot. There isn't alot of play in an elevator especially when you think the car passes every entrance along the way by an 1 1/4" max. at the door sill.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong to get on top but just know the risks of what could happen. Besides why end a great exploration tragically.
Piper
It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase. |
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zx270
location:
Here
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Keys
<Reply # 39 on 3/23/2006 12:07 AM >
| | | | I went "elevator surfing" once. I and a few other people opened the hoistway doors with the key(the car was right under me, we had someone holding the car on the floor below us while we went on top of the car. We closed the doors and just sat on the elevator... It wasnt really dangerous. There was some equipment on top of the car, which would give us room even if the topmost part of the car came into contact with the roof. As long as you dont look over the side(counterweights), sitting on top of an elevator really isnt that dangerous..
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