Infiltration

HillbillyHorus location: Charlottesville Virginia Gender: Male Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz \| \|	Hydrogen Sulphide < on 10/18/2005 12:28 AM >

	How common is Hydrogen Sulphide in drains? I'm asking because of what happened just the other day while I was draining. At one point, the tunnel split into two rectangular tunnels which ran parallel. I went down one, then when the drain ended, I turned back into the other. About a hundred feet down I smelled rotten eggs, and my nose started to burn. I turned back around and got out, but I'm just wondering what the likelihood is that this was H2S. I'm sure there are many gases which smell like rotten eggs, and the nose burning may have been psychosomatic, as I didn't notice it until I suspected there was bad air. You can't fall off a mountain.

oldtimer location: Toronto Gender: Male \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 1 on 10/18/2005 12:51 AM >

	How common? I don't think anyone could answer that as each drain is unique. Here is a good article on air quality or lack thereof: http://www.urbex.o.../approach.html#air

HillbillyHorus location: Charlottesville Virginia Gender: Male Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 2 on 10/18/2005 2:12 AM >

	I've read the approach.doc several times. It just isn't very clear as to how common it is, how it gets there, or where it's found. I'd assume it's found more in sewers, but san sewage often leaks into drains, at least in trace amounts. You can't fall off a mountain.

dirt location: Oakland, CA Gender: Male Je suis très aimable et très caustique. \| \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 3 on 10/18/2005 4:33 AM >

	if the is doubt then dont trust it. whenever i go draining i bring a gasmask. it has served me very well. you can get a east german,or a russian gasmask for about 10 to 20 bucks. He seemed to move among very delicate objects, on ground mined with goodness knows what precious explosives. ~ Jean Cocteau

SteamPunk location: Sailing the seas of sleaze. \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 4 on 10/18/2005 6:24 AM >

	I personally would never buy a mill gas mask UNLESS IT WAS NEW, and even then, only with a list of the agents/gasses/particulates it protects against. An industrial (3m, or north, etc), FULL face mask may be your best protection, WITH THE RIGHT CARTRAGES! OV (organic vapor), and an 95 attachment is not enough! The best multi gas/multi vapor (including acid gasses and vapors) with a p-100 rating (hepa quality), is only rated for h2s ESCAPE only. this is not to discourage anyone. I drain often, when the season permits! I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too!

Factor VIII location: tu5t1n Gender: Male The Legacy \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 5 on 10/18/2005 10:25 PM >

	Hydrogen sulphide is usually found when there is large amounts of decaying organic matter, (leaves ect). Often times after a large storm, plant matter will go down into the drain, rot there, and forms pockets of H2S. I'm sure youve heard, but H2S quickly destroys your sense of smell, it was good thinking to get out of the drain quickly. I was about to do a drain last friday, but the rotten eggs smell was strong even above the drain. So we didnt do it. use the boost to get through

maninamillion Gender: Male \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 6 on 11/15/2005 3:51 PM >

	I work in the Oil & Gas industry. We are very mindful of H2s & its effects on people as well as its highly corrosive effect on pipelines & well tubing. It is not something you want to be exposed to at all. Is it common? Let me ask you this. How common is rotting vegetation? Is it worth risking your life without protection? If you are going to be exploring you need personal protection. These things cost money but your life is worth allot more than the $400.00 Gas monitor you should be wearing. Gas monitors should be a must for tunnel exploring. H2s is just 1 deadly gas some have no smell & also kill. Here is a link for a gas monitor. A quick search on yahoo or google will give you more options. http://www.canarys...om/ssg-ga.html?s=O Dangerous gasses are common & not worth risking your life on your sense of smell or a cheap gas mask.

HillbillyHorus location: Charlottesville Virginia Gender: Male Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 7 on 11/15/2005 9:22 PM >

	Thanks maninamillion, but really it's mostly a Fall concern when it comes to draining. All drains have low air quality to some degree ("stuffy" feeling, etc.), but it's when there's enough of a lack that you feel dizzy, pannicked, racy, that you should get out. I can't afford a good gas tester right now, and none of the drainers I know carry them with them. It would be a nice idea, but you don't need fancy equipment to detect low air quality usually. You can't fall off a mountain.

Seolyk location: Knoxville, Tennessee Gender: Male Pie? \| \| \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 8 on 12/1/2005 4:12 PM >

	you might not say you need it, but there might be a time when you can't make it back to an exit in time, what would you do in that scenario? Those who think faith is blind are afraid of heights. "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, love." Count Nicholas Ludwig von Zinzendorf "The tattoo on their back boasts 'For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.'" - The Vision, Pete Greig I'd like to thank my friend Roxanne for giving me permission to use her drawing of my character as an avi ^^

SteamPunk

location:
Sailing the seas of sleaze.

Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
<Reply # 9 on 12/1/2005 8:54 PM >

Posted by Seolyk
you might not say you need it, but there might be a time when you can't make it back to an exit in time, what would you do in that scenario?

That is what an approved H2S "escape" mask is for.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too!

Seolyk location: Knoxville, Tennessee Gender: Male Pie? \| \| \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 10 on 12/1/2005 9:09 PM >

	this is true. Those who think faith is blind are afraid of heights. "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, love." Count Nicholas Ludwig von Zinzendorf "The tattoo on their back boasts 'For me to live is Christ and to die is gain.'" - The Vision, Pete Greig I'd like to thank my friend Roxanne for giving me permission to use her drawing of my character as an avi ^^

HillbillyHorus

location:
Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male

Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz

Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
<Reply # 11 on 12/2/2005 9:06 PM >

Posted by Seolyk
you might not say you need it, but there might be a time when you can't make it back to an exit in time, what would you do in that scenario?

Open a manhole (but obviously only in a real emergency). I'd have a better chance opening a manhole on a deserted road than I would hanging out in a tunnel with no oxygen.

You can't fall off a mountain.

Swimr location: Edmonton, Canada Gender: Male \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 12 on 12/2/2005 9:52 PM >

	Just a heads up, I work at a print press, and we usually print H2S safety manuals for oil workers about twice a month, and this stuff is really scary, any more than 10ppm and you can't smell it. With something like 700ppm it will knock you out before you hit the floor, and unless there is someone there to rescue you, you'll probably die. The human brain can live 4-6 minutes without a continuous supply of oxygen before permanent brain damage occurs. Can you get out of any part of a drain in less than 4-6 minutes and start CPR? No? I know CPR but can't carry someone that fast. Get a mask. School, Sustinence, Swim, Sleep, Repeat. UE when possible.

Dowcet

location:
Middletown, ct

Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
<Reply # 13 on 12/3/2005 7:17 AM >

Posted by Swimr
Get a mask.

As folks often point out on here, masks don't help against an absence of oxygen.

Vinny

location:
city watershed wilderness area of Frederick, MD
Gender: Male

Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
<Reply # 14 on 1/10/2006 3:07 AM >

Posted by HypnoToad

I personally would never buy a mil gas mask UNLESS IT WAS NEW, and even then, only with a list of the agents/gasses/particulates it protects against. An industrial (3m, or north, etc), FULL face mask may be your best protection, WITH THE RIGHT CARTRAGES! OV (organic vapor), and an 95 attachment is not enough! The best multi gas/multi vapor (including acid gasses and vapors) with a p-100 rating (hepa quality), is only rated for h2s ESCAPE only. this is not to discourage anyone. I drain often, when the season permits!

As a consulting scientist who works regularly with sewage systems and large sewage treament plants around the world, and as an extreme geocacher who spends much of my life in storm drains under cities, I agree wholeheartedly with the comments by HypnoToad above. Most surplus "gas masks" no longer work, and most are specific only to certain gases. Gas masks are indeed for ESCAPE ONLY, and even then, it is iffy. You may die first.

Most gases which you will encounter underground which smell like rotten eggs will be hydrogen sulfide (H2S) or similar sulfide gases, and all are very toxic above a few pp concentration. Many people have died from entering an area where the atmposhere contained too much H2S gas. Having said that, you will usually only encounter hydrogen sulfide gas in sewage systems, and almost never in a storm drain system, unless there is a bit of a leak from one system to the other, allowing significant exchange of gases.

The ONLY sure method for handling levels of H2S above a few ppm is to wear a self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) or SCUBA gear, and, even then, you would want to have at least one spare backup system in case your primary system fails. Your life can lie in the balance.

with care,
--Vinny

Pravus location: Chicago Area Gender: Male Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"... \| \| \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 15 on 1/10/2006 3:24 AM >

	Since I am not much of a drainer I don't really care to spend cash needlessly on such things, but for you drainers out there I would think some sorta gas detector would be a good buy http://www.enmet.com/port_quad.htm I dunno if thats a good one or even a useful one.. But if you have the cash I would think it's worth it... Live to Serve, Serve to Live..

Rodent Stealth

Gender: Male

Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
<Reply # 16 on 1/11/2006 4:17 AM >

Posted by oldtimer
Here is a good article on air quality or lack thereof:

IMO thats a very good article that explains the basics of confined space risks. However the cockroaches on the manhole cover was enough to make my skin crawl....odd that I have no problem with dark tight spaces, heights but ANY kind of bug makes my skin crawl.

Posted by HypnoToadI personally would never buy a mill gas mask UNLESS IT WAS NEW, and even then, only with a list of the agents/gasses/particulates it protects against.

Posted by maninamillionThese things cost money but your life is worth allot more than the $400.00 Gas monitor you should be wearing. Gas monitors should be a must for tunnel exploring. H2s is just 1 deadly gas some have no smell & also kill.

Both HypnoToad and maninamillion raise good points. Some cardinal rules with personal safety equipment are:
-you know how to check its functionality and confirm its in operational condition.....i.e. if you don't know if the red light (hypothetical example) is a good or bad thing then don't use it
-its designed for the risks you may be exposed to.....i.e. an H2S detector will do sweet guck all to alert you the presence of methane, C0, etc.
-alert equipment is fine as long as you have a defined and safe exit route

Posted by HypnoToadThat is what an approved H2S "escape" mask is for.

Yup and an egress mask/pack is just that. Something that provides you ample O2 to get from your present point to a designated refuge point.

Posted by VinnyThe ONLY sure method for handling levels of H2S above a few ppm is to wear a self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBA) or SCUBA gear, and, even then, you would want to have at least one spare backup system in case your primary system fails. Your life can lie in the balance.

Amen!

Rodent Stealth

A slightly grumpy rat who enjoys going places he shouldn't

zarathustra location: Toronto, ON Gender: Female \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 17 on 1/11/2006 4:58 AM >

	haha...i can see that you are clearly mocking me so i will clear a few things up. my irrational fears of rodents stem from having to do a pap smear on a rat once in one of my undergrad classes at u of t. now if you're trying to squirt water up a rat's ---- then you would know that they're not the most cooperative under such circumstances. anybody who took zoo252 would know what i'm talking about. oh, btw, if you ever want to try something new and you're in the toronto area, then i recommend that you stop by the ramsey wright blding. there are a lot of interesting little critters, like yourself, in there. ta ta, see you around my special rodent friend

HillbillyHorus

location:
Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male

Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz

Re: Hydrogen Sulphide
<Reply # 18 on 1/11/2006 8:30 PM >

Posted by zarathustra
haha...i can see that you are clearly mocking me

I didn't think he was mocking you

You can't fall off a mountain.

Howie_Sydney \|	Re: Hydrogen Sulphide <Reply # 19 on 1/13/2006 3:06 AM >

	Im currently in the market for a 4 gas analyser myself. As I am going to be draining mostly alone. Oxygen, CO, H2S & LEL (Combustible Gases). H2S is a concern over here in my new country as its a very thermally active area. H2S/CO2 Gas regularly makes its way into drains in some places. Beware the town of Rotorua!!! Also a basic self rescue kit can be as simple as a small PVC air inflated chamber, filled by an air compressor rather than your mouth. Coupled with a plastic tube and valve. You would need to experiment with the size that is easily carried in your pack and how long it lasts. You know when its empty as its fully deflated. It could give you vital minutes to return to a safer atmosphere if you dont mind the taste of plastic air Or if you have the cash to splash around, a self rescue re-breather that releases Oxygen from crystals or cleans the CO out of the air you breath out for re-use. These come in various models starting from about 15minutes of breathing time. Howie. www.bunkerboyz.org

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