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function
 
location:
Toronto
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 140 on 1/13/2006 8:39 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Zensins
A Swiss Army knife is a good piece of equipment to have for UE for a couple reasons, most of which were already covered so I didn't want to be redundant, but since you asked... A cutting tool can come in handy. Swiss Army knives are considered more "tool" than "weapon" by most, including cops if you are unfortunate enough to get busted. ... Is it the perfect choice for a knife fight? No. Is it my choice? No. Have Swiss Army knives ever come in handy for more mundane tasks during UE? You bet. |
My response was only so pointed because this thread was about weapons, not "good UE equipment" and lines were blurring. Trust me, I'd love than anything to have a nice conversation about how handy all these "more mundane" knives can be in a pinch to do work, as tools. Hence my various Spydie and BM EDCs. Very nice collection BTW, peace.
[last edit 1/13/2006 8:52 PM by function - edited 1 times]
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surekill
  
location:
Victoria, BC.
Gender: Male
I like tacos
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 141 on 1/15/2006 12:42 PM >
| | | | Oh god KK that's awesome! One time I was driving my car and some chick in the passenger side of a SUV came up beside me, smiled and had fangs. I nearly crapped my pants. I actually sped away and then about 2 minutes later realized they would be fake. I watch too many movies!
I find no harm in carrying a knife. If somebody wants to do you harm it will make it that much more panful for them.
A gun would be a good idea if you could hide it nearby and quickly if police showed up. Also, you don't have to kill somebody absolutely if you pull it out. If you have the space you could blast a round past there head. I think most humans would run away. If not you could take out a foot or two, guns are great tools for defense. Why do you think the police have them? If somebody is approaching me to attack I would WAY rather have the option to shoot them. Who the hell wants to get beat up and/or killed by some crazy? I think a lot of Canadians grew up in a bubble and really don't realize just how evil and violent some people can be.
I'd rather not have a large chunk of my skull missing because some squatter high on crack decides to pick up a piece of re-bar and let me have it for disturbing his peace.
Too bad I live in Canada and have to try and defend myself with a spoon!
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 142 on 1/15/2006 12:48 PM >
| | | | Posted by surekill
I think most humans would run away. If not you could take out a foot or two, guns are great tools for defense. Why do you think the police have them?
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for starters if someone is blown outa thier gord they may be too stupid to think of running.. and cops carry guns because everyone else has guns.. if nobody had guns then I am sure cops would be content beating in the back of your face with an ASP...
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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surekill
location:
Victoria, BC.
Gender: Male
I like tacos
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 143 on 1/15/2006 1:20 PM >
| | | | Well if they don't run then the next one can land in their eye. Cops would have guns regardless, because people would still carry weapons wheather it be a knife or a stick or even a bike lock. This isn't amateur boxing where everybody fights fair and follows rules.
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 144 on 1/15/2006 1:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by surekill
Well if they don't run then the next one can land in their eye. Cops would have guns regardless, because people would still carry weapons wheather it be a knife or a stick or even a bike lock. This isn't amateur boxing where everybody fights fair and follows rules.
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Do english cops still only carry beater sticks? according to the BBC News 79% of cops were against being armed, and since 95 only 1% went up for carrying firearms
They belive that having cops armed with guns will only lead to more violent crimes
But anyways, if nobody has guns then it's overkill to use one on someone and it's completely not needed
And whoever said anything about fair fights? I'll never willingly get into a fair fight, no point
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Ultramasturbatron
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 145 on 1/15/2006 5:17 PM >
| | | | I've started carrying my old Cold Steel push dagger. It meets the Colorado Revised Statutes limits on length. Although, I do have to find out if it being an actual push dagger might affect any other laws. I also carry my Leatherman, but I wouldn't actually count on it being any sort of weapon if needed at a moments notice.
I was carrying a 26" extended ASP that I got a long time ago, but I not aware of laws against carrying "clubs", but I would imagine it's against the law in Colorado. I would even hesitate using a Maglite or other large flashlight as a "club" too, because it could be used against me in a court of law if it boiled down to it.
The other thing I'd like to start carrying is a pepper spray that comes out in foam form instead of aerosol form. Combing through the C.R.S. and talking with a police officer, there is currently no law against carrying it. So, getting a HUGE can of it will be in the works to add extra protection.
So, I'm thumbs up for carrying a weapon of some sort while UE'ing. Just be careful of local laws pertaining to carrying and stay within it. My .02 cents worth.
[last edit 1/15/2006 5:18 PM by Ultramasturbatron - edited 1 times]
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surekill
location:
Victoria, BC.
Gender: Male
I like tacos
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 146 on 1/16/2006 2:06 AM >
| | | | The reason that survey was done is because violent gun crime is way out of hand in England. It has gone up a lot since hand guns were banned in 1997. A lot of police there are being shot.
Anyway, wander into some squatter camp unarmed if you want to. I'm sure they're all nice guys and will charm you and your girlfriend with their witty banter about life abroad. Nice chaps they are!
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Zensins
location:
Florida
Gender: Male
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 147 on 1/16/2006 3:25 AM >
| | | | Posted by function
My response was only so pointed because this thread was about weapons, not "good UE equipment" and lines were blurring. Trust me, I'd love than anything to have a nice conversation about how handy all these "more mundane" knives can be in a pinch to do work, as tools. Hence my various Spydie and BM EDCs. Very nice collection BTW, peace.
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Yeah, after I posted I re-read your post and realized that I was going a bit off topic. If I had a selection of knives to choose as a weapon, Swiss Army would be pretty low on the list, heheh.
[last edit 1/16/2006 3:25 AM by Zensins - edited 1 times]
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skepticaloldman
location:
Pittsburgh, PA
Gender: Male
Congress shall make no law...
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 148 on 1/16/2006 6:12 PM >
| | | | Wow. We're all talking as if we were trained to use a knife or flashlight to defend ourselves against someone who, presumably, uses such things maliciously for a living, or at least a hobby.
I've never gotten myself into a situation in which I had to worry about fists flying, and I think that's the best defense. My second choice would be to run like hell. Third would be pepper spray, which I do carry, mostly because it's effective against dogs (a greater threat than people), but also because it's easy to use from a short distance and doesn't really hurt anyone.
Skeptical Old Man |
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Zensins
location:
Florida
Gender: Male
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 149 on 1/17/2006 7:25 AM >
| | | | Posted by skepticaloldman
Wow. We're all talking as if we were trained to use a knife or flashlight to defend ourselves against someone who, presumably, uses such things maliciously for a living, or at least a hobby.
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You do your nickname proud. I think going so far as to make a "presumption" that most attackers a UEr would encounter would be a professional knife fighter/flashlight clubber or hobbyist is unrealistic, but, I get your point. You seem to be of the opinion that unless accompanied by training, carrying a maglite or a knife for self defense is always unwise. I disagree. I don't have any formal training in knife fighting, but I'm not an effeminate pansy who would let some homeless mugger slap a blade out of my hand with a yelp either. I've been in a situation where having a knife was potentially lifesaving and all I needed to do was pull up my jacket and put my hand on the handle. A man or woman with a knife in hand is simply more intimidating than one with nothing but fists, it's as simple as that. Intimidation often works and, if it came down to it, so do sharp edges and blunt weight. Sure training would help, and taking some self-defense classes is never a bad idea, but the only "professional" flashlight clubbers I can think of that a UEr might encounter are ... cops, or guards. And if you throw down with either of those over a UE encounter, you're a complete idiot, trained or untrained.
[last edit 1/17/2006 7:27 AM by Zensins - edited 1 times]
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Sidler
location:
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 150 on 1/17/2006 9:02 AM >
| | | | http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=13951&currpage=5&pp#post95
If you got in a situation like that one, and you "pull up my jacket and put my hand on the handle." I'd bet you would walk away with a bit more than a couple bruises like Hatchet did.
One of the first things I learned regarding self defense was how to take a knife away from an opponent. And guess what, its not very hard unless said opponent really knows what he's doing.
Better off just avoiding confrontation.
something witty |
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 151 on 1/17/2006 10:21 AM >
| | | | the problem with intimidation is it's pretty much a bluff.. and your standing there with this knive and some guy calls your bluff, either he has no clue whats going on and you gut him (grats your going to jail) or he knows exactly whats going on and he hands you your own ass and stabs you with your own knife..
Just a gamble.. I'd rather walk away personally unless I have no other option, then at that point it really doesn't matter..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Cowboy Wayne
location:
Evansville, Indiana.
Gender: Male
I'm sorry; I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 152 on 1/18/2006 1:09 AM >
| | | | Like I said before, follow the advise of the CCW holders. Don't draw your weapon unless you IMMEDIATELY intend to use it. Time spent on intimidation can be used much more effectively diffusing the situation/running away.
No, the guy in my av isn't actually me. |
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Zensins
location:
Florida
Gender: Male
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 153 on 1/18/2006 4:19 AM >
| | | |
I'm not going to criticize, because I wasn't there and I'm not him, but I can tell you that going into the worst section of town to explore drains is not a choice I would have made. If I had to walk into a section of town known for gang activity, I would carry more than a knife.
Posted by Sidler
If you got in a situation like that one, and you "pull up my jacket and put my hand on the handle." I'd bet you would walk away with a bit more than a couple bruises like Hatchet did.
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The situation I was describing happened on a crowded street in a European city instead of alone in a blighted gang neighborhood. All I can say is that my response, in my situation, worked, in that I wasn't hurt and didn't go to jail. Each situation is different.
Posted by Sidler
One of the first things I learned regarding self defense was how to take a knife away from an opponent. And guess what, its not very hard unless said opponent really knows what he's doing.
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If faced with an opponent with a knife, would you attempt to take it away using your self defense technique, or would you just walk away from the confrontation if given a choice?
Posted by Sidler
Better off just avoiding confrontation.
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Yeah, me too. Same for most people, including the bad guys, who might be more willing to back out of a confrontation they initiated if they guessed you were unarmed and then found out they were wrong. All I am saying is that carrying a knife saved my ass once. Is it possible that carrying a knife could make a bad situation worse? Sure. But that hasn't happened to me yet.
Call me a wuss but I would go to great lengths to avoid being in some of Miami's bad areas without a firearm, even in the daytime. If I was in Liberty City with only a good knife, my first priority would be figuring out how to leave as soon as possible.
[last edit 1/18/2006 3:43 PM by Zensins - edited 1 times]
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Zensins
location:
Florida
Gender: Male
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 154 on 1/18/2006 4:32 AM >
| | | | Posted by Pravus
the problem with intimidation is it's pretty much a bluff.. and your standing there with this knive and some guy calls your bluff, either he has no clue whats going on and you gut him (grats your going to jail) or he knows exactly whats going on and he hands you your own ass and stabs you with your own knife..
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If you're carrying a knife for self protection, but you are unwilling to use it to that end, then yes, you should leave it at home.
Posted by Pravus
Just a gamble.. I'd rather walk away personally unless I have no other option, then at that point it really doesn't matter..
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Of course I would walk away before using or even drawing a knife if that was an option. If there is no other option other than physical confrontation, then how do you conclude it doesn't matter if you're armed or not?
It seems like some posters are arguing it's better to just go unarmed and beg for mercy (if forced into a confrontation) rather than arm yourself appropriately for the scenario and then defend yourself to your best ability if attacked. If I had to choose between "carry a suitable weapon and use it if forced to" or "carry no weapon and hope I only get beaten up if attacked" I'll go with option A every time. I doubt those two points of view will ever find common ground though.
[last edit 1/18/2006 4:33 AM by Zensins - edited 1 times]
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 155 on 1/18/2006 4:55 AM >
| | | | Posted by Zensins
If you're carrying a knife for self protection, but you are unwilling to use it to that end, then yes, you should leave it at home.
Of course I would walk away before using or even drawing a knife if that was an option. If there is no other option other than physical confrontation, then how do you conclude it doesn't matter if you're armed or not?
It seems like some posters are arguing it's better to just go unarmed and beg for mercy (if forced into a confrontation) rather than arm yourself appropriately for the scenario and then defend yourself to your best ability if attacked. If I had to choose between "carry a suitable weapon and use it if forced to" or "carry no weapon and hope I only get beaten up if attacked" I'll go with option A every time. I doubt those two points of view will ever find common ground though.
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I'd always recommend carrying a knife, but all I was saying is theres a time and place to using it..
What I ment about no other option is do whatever you have to do to end the "physical confrontation" with as little damage done to yourself as possible.. Which doesn't always mean using weapons, but if thats the best option then go for it.. Personally if someone has thier mind set on ripping my head off I'll kindly make sure they can't stand up again to do any harm to me, obviously I would REALLY prefer not to go killing people but at the same time I have no problems putting someone into a hospital to prevent them from harming me or my friends..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Zensins
location:
Florida
Gender: Male
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape, every nerve aware.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 156 on 1/18/2006 3:42 PM >
| | | | Posted by Pravus
I would REALLY prefer not to go killing people but at the same time I have no problems putting someone into a hospital to prevent them from harming me or my friends..
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I agree 100%.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with some of the posters in this thread advocating the use of pepper spray as the best self defense weapon a UEr could carry in most circumstances. It would have worked in my situation. It would have worked in hatchet's situation. Be careful though as some states do include pepper spray as a "weapon" in their concealed carry laws. This means that if you have pepper spray concealed without a license and are arrested, it could add a felony charge to the arrest. I'm not sure about carrying it openly, like on a belt clip, etc. I'm going to check the Florida statutes today and see if they shed any light.
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Okay, I looked up the Florida statute online and here's what it says:
790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.--
(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.
(4) It is not a violation of this section for a person to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or remote stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device which does not fire a dart or projectile and is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(5) This section does not preclude any prosecution for the use of an electric weapon or device or remote stun gun or self-defense chemical spray during the commission of any criminal offense under s. 790.07, s. 790.10, s. 790.23, or s. 790.235, or for any other criminal offense.
Then section 790.07 says:
790.07 Persons engaged in criminal offense, having weapons.--
(1) Whoever, while committing or attempting to commit any felony or while under indictment, displays, uses, threatens, or attempts to use any weapon or electric weapon or device or carries a concealed weapon is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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Since simple trespass is a misdemeanor, 790.07 wouldn't apply to simple UE that didn't involve B&E, but then you've got 810.08(c) which reads...
If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or arms himself or herself with such while in the structure or conveyance, the trespass in a structure or conveyance is a felony of the third degree...
So the question becomes whether "chemical spray" is a "dangerous weapon" under FS 810.08(c) and that would involve researching case law or consulting an attorney. However, as you can see, these statutes are relevant not only to whether it's okay to carry pepper spray while UEing but also things like "arming yourself" by picking up a stick or piece of re-bar once on-site. Also, it's quite clear about carrying a firearm while trespassing being a felony all on its own.
Of course, the laws in your state may vary (by a lot) so its best to do some research on your own and consult a licensed attorney. (Read that as "I'm not a licensed attorney and don't want to be prosecuted for practicing law without a license because some dumbass reader gets busted after reading this and needs someone to blame.")
[last edit 1/18/2006 4:48 PM by Zensins - edited 2 times]
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KublaKhan
location:
Edinburgh, Scotland
With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.
| | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 157 on 1/18/2006 5:22 PM >
|  | | | Whenever I go splorin, I always bring one of these, fully loaded and ready to kill.
"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
PICS |
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Logan
 
location:
Ra-Cha-Cha, NY
Gender: Male
We miss you Jerry
| | | | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 158 on 1/18/2006 5:31 PM >
| | | | why is this thread still alive. I look at it every once and a while and every page but 1 and 2 say pretty much the same thing. =P
Cogito Ergo Sum |
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Pravus
location:
Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: To bring or not to bring: weapons
<Reply # 159 on 1/18/2006 5:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by Zensins
Be careful though as some states do include pepper spray as a "weapon" in their concealed carry laws. This means that if you have pepper spray concealed without a license and are arrested, it could add a felony charge to the arrest. I'm not sure about carrying it openly, like on a belt clip, etc. I'm going to check the Florida statutes today and see if they shed any light.
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Regardless of the laws.. It'd more then likely be worse if you stab and kill someone.. so even if a taser or spray is illegal it's clear that the attacker more then likely won't seek police and try to press charges (at least I would think) so the only thing you have to worry about if random searches.. So going by that if you taser or spray someone they'll stand up again and shake it off and run away.. If you stab someone then you are forced to deal with police, at least if your even slightly humane, due to medics and calling the police..
At least I would hope that you all would at least call an ambulance or something instead of leaving them to bleed out..
I dunno thats my view on that
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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