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Infiltration Forums > Archived Canada: Alberta / BC > Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight (Viewed 2643 times)
Jester 


location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male


Always just out of sight...

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 20 on 9/24/2005 4:32 AM >
Posted on Forum:
 
Posted by Voltaire
Everything in that post was factual and was not insulting at all.


I am seeing now that you take offence very easily and are a very sensitive person. With a pretense that I am out to get you I could see how you would take things the way you did. I did not see it, as I was not out to get you.




You said I have mental problems and i'm supposed to not take that as an insult ? Sorry for being so sensitive to being slandered... Your evidence of my state of sanity was what ? You and Anymouse's delusional ramblings ? Anyone and everyone that knows me, will tell you i'm probably one of the most stable (menatlly and emotionally) people they know. Yet you come up with that as an attack based on nothing...

Then when it was pretty clear others knew you and mouse were full of shit, you switched to saying you'd need to meet me.

Scott
Site Admin


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Calgary
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will start with a clean slate with Jester if I can do some real exploring with him. For me that is the measure, plain and simple. I am completely open minded to trying some exploring with him.

Everyone else who I have voted for, I have explored with and that has built my trust. I hold Jester to the same


Despite the fact that we've met. Having explored with me on more than one occasion, spending hours together exploring and hours sitting and talking in Denny's ? My taking you to one of the psyche hospitals here and the radar base in kamloops wasn't real ? What do you define as *real* if I may ask ?



It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Skaught 


location:
Calgary
Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 21 on 9/24/2005 4:37 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Oh, I did say that I did not think that Siolo and Fec's exploring style might not be exactly compatible with you. As a person that has explored with both of you I am qualified to voice an opinion on the matter.

Siolo has been caught more times than Ninj was. Getting caught and being stealthy are not important to him. You have stated that those are things you take seriously.

If you ever come to Calgary then email Satan@uea.ca and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :)
Jester 


location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male


Always just out of sight...

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 22 on 9/24/2005 4:47 AM >
Posted on Forum:
 
And are you deliberately staying away from addressing things you've said that contradict what you say now ?

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Skaught 


location:
Calgary
Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 23 on 9/24/2005 4:59 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Jester



You said I have mental problems and i'm supposed to not take that as an insult ?


I said I had concern for your state of mind. And until I could see otherwise that was my opinion. This is not a court of law, you are not assumed to be trustworthy as a right.


Posted by Jester
Sorry for being so sensitive to being slandered... Your evidence of my state of sanity was what ? You and Anymouse's delusional ramblings ? Anyone and everyone that knows me, will tell you i'm probably one of the most stable (menatlly and emotionally) people they know. Yet you come up with that as an attack based on nothing...


It was not slander, it was an opinion. An attack would take the form of "Mary is a crazy fucked in the head boggan". For a statement to be slander it has to be presented as a fact that is untrue and not be an opinion. I would have to say "Mary is a Type II Bipolar" when in fact she is clearly not.

Posted by Jester
Then when it was pretty clear others knew you and mouse were full of shit, you switched to saying you'd need to meet me.

To switch I would have had to have said I was not going to meet with you. Why would I tell you, "ya, some time in the next few months I would like to find a way to get to Van to meet with you" when I knew you had an axe to grind. Once I knoew the plan then I was going to figure it out. And then plus if I can't make it I make things worse. Nah, better to play it smart I think. My small attempt at social skills.


Posted by Jester
Despite the fact that we've met. Having explored with me on more than one occasion, spending hours together exploring and hours sitting and talking in Denny's ? My taking you to one of the psyche hospitals here and the radar base in kamloops wasn't real ? What do you define as *real* if I may ask ?


I am not sure what you on about with "Real". I do think you are a real person. In terms of trust, yes you had it. Then you, online told Matt about stories of fighting swamp animals when you were still a kid and cracking safes with your dad and saving people on a shipwreck. I simply could not believe that a kid could fight an alligator (or croc or whatever), I have never heard of cracking safes as a legal (or even pracrtical) way to collect money form debtors (but hey I only own a company, wtf do I know about business) and we could not find any documents in any newspapaer archives about any shipwrecks that even closely resembled what you described.

So what conclusion am I forced to make? At first I figure you are pulling Matt's leg. But you insist otherwise. So I figure ok, either he is lying or dellusional. Much later I figure ok, maybe I will overlook this, everyone else insits that they have degress in sociology and that my opions are wrong. Ok fine, but I still need to see him in person to see for myself. So fine, as soon as I have a chance, I am willing to buy a plane ticket at my own expense, fly out for a day and see him. I have a business to run and clients and employees that count on me so holidays are not something can take many of. I can certainly afford it, and hey I will spend $600 to settle this once and for all. Others think I am crazy, I say, hey I am a nice person I will do it.

Maybe my decision to wait to tell you was different that what others would do but is easy to monday morning quarterback and I think it was the best way to do it. I think that keeping to myself had advantages and really I was trying to work in everyone's best interest in the way that I can best.

I am not a vengefull person, in fact I am very forgiving. Forgivness is a major measure of charecter.

And I think there is still agreat deal of confusion about the differnce between Matt and I. I think things he has said are being attributed to me. We do have different opinions on this matter and I think quite different views of you.

edit fix qoutes

[last edit 9/24/2005 5:00 AM by Skaught - edited 2 times]

If you ever come to Calgary then email Satan@uea.ca and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :)
Jester 


location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male


Always just out of sight...

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 24 on 9/24/2005 6:02 AM >
Posted on Forum:
 
Posted by Voltaire
I am not sure what you on about with "Real". I do think you are a real person. In terms of trust, yes you had it. Then you, online told Matt about stories of fighting swamp animals when you were still a kid and cracking safes with your dad and saving people on a shipwreck. I simply could not believe that a kid could fight an alligator (or croc or whatever), I have never heard of cracking safes as a legal (or even pracrtical) way to collect money form debtors (but hey I only own a company, wtf do I know about business) and we could not find any documents in any newspapaer archives about any shipwrecks that even closely resembled what you described.


How about injecting the reality of what was said into this instead of your altered descriptions ? Fighting an alligator ? You have to mean when I lived in florida and swam in the swamp where aligators were visible when I went into an old house out in the swamp. I have the chat log of the whole conversation, and nowhere does it say what you said.

The safe cracking, well you've got it a bit mixed up, but i'll explain it. My parents were bar musicians, travelling all over north america playing country music in small towns with dive bars. One of those, there was a bit of a worry that the bar was going to stiff my parents of their pay. They were paid in cash everywhere I ever saw, under the table, no taxes, no unions or anything like that... So someone stiffing you was a real possibility. Well, my father being a jack of all trades (one of which had been a locksmith apprentice) decided to head down to the office at 3 am or so, and let me go with him. He picked the lock to the office and then proceeded to crack the safe. Now this was roughly 20 years ago, and it certainly wasn't a big expensive safe, but it was a safe none the less and he did crack it. He checked to see if they had the money to cover their pay, and then closed it back up. his plan was if they stiffed him, he'd go in there and take the correct amount.

The *shipwreck* was a 110 ft( I think ) old wooden ship, moored at the marina on the Pitt river, right beside the Pitt river swing bridge. It had been moored there for months ( I lived on a boat with my parents there at the time ) and the owner of it never came down and never did a damn thing with it. It started sitting lower in the water, and lower as time went by. It was pretty clear it was going to go down sometime soon. So one night I went over to it and onto it and down into it, into the water that it was holding now, and searched around it. It was really not exciting, except for the possibility of the ship going down I guess. It was stupid, no doubt, but I did it whether you choose to believe it or not. the ship did indeed sink the next day or so after that. It pulled a part of the dock along with it as well. Feel free when you're out here to go there and ask around anybody there, the marina is such a dump, but if any of the people there have been there from about 15-18 years ago, they'll know of the boat going down.


Believe it or don't believe it, i'm not going to jump through hoops to try to convince you.

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
Mister Sable 


location:
Palliser City
Gender: Male


The Man with the Hat (the other man)

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 25 on 9/24/2005 1:26 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
A great many people swim in Florida, and there are a lot of alligators there, it's not the least bit far fetched. People in Australia do that too - and pretty much everything is lethal in that country from the snakes to the frogs to the tiny spiders. It's a daily hazard of everyday life because of where they live. Freak has encountered bears in Alaska. Some people get attacked by elk in Banff. FREAKIN' ELK! Calm, graceful plant eaters attacking tourists in the paved streets of a resort town during rutting season. Swimmers are attacked by sharks all the time. Many people are killed and eaten by pigs on farms - more than are killed by sharks and alligators together. It's a wonder Detroit and Los Angeles explorers haven't been shot being found someplace they aren't expected to be. I can't see why the fact someone swam where alligators exist is such a mind blower and must be filed under 'fantasy'. Just because it's outside one's realm of experience doesn't make it untrue.

Christ, my own Dad blew up a truck with dynamite for insurance money (didn't get it and was fined for fraud). Seems farfetched, dangerous, and exciting, but it happened. I'd never expect any big city boys to believe that - outside their realm of experience. It would blow their minds to even consider it real for a second.

When the people of this urban exploration generation tell our kids what we've done, and these kids tell their friends, no one will believe them either, because really, this exploring stormdrains and sneaking into buildings is all pretty James Bond, after all. Totally unbelievable. No one does that.

A lot of people might not believe Anymouse tried and almost succeeded in building a rail gun either - that's pure science fiction, isn't it? No. Just outside the realm of most people's experience.

Crazy things happen to everyone here. It's part of UE and part of why we do it. Some more crazy than other, but it's all real. Please give the bickering a rest and talk about exploring again, or better yet, clear your heads, and go outside and explore while the weather's still somewhat decent. It's the weekend, road trip out, or something. Just relax and quitcher bitchin'. That goes for those on all sides of this political and over personal fence.

Cloak and dagger, man, cloak and dagger.
Skaught 


location:
Calgary
Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 26 on 9/24/2005 6:45 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Jester


How about injecting the reality of what was said into this instead of your altered descriptions ? Fighting an alligator ? You have to mean when I lived in florida and swam in the swamp where aligators were visible when I went into an old house out in the swamp. I have the chat log of the whole conversation, and nowhere does it say what you said.

The safe cracking, well you've got it a bit mixed up, but i'll explain it. My parents were bar musicians, travelling all over north america playing country music in small towns with dive bars. One of those, there was a bit of a worry that the bar was going to stiff my parents of their pay. They were paid in cash everywhere I ever saw, under the table, no taxes, no unions or anything like that... So someone stiffing you was a real possibility. Well, my father being a jack of all trades (one of which had been a locksmith apprentice) decided to head down to the office at 3 am or so, and let me go with him. He picked the lock to the office and then proceeded to crack the safe. Now this was roughly 20 years ago, and it certainly wasn't a big expensive safe, but it was a safe none the less and he did crack it. He checked to see if they had the money to cover their pay, and then closed it back up. his plan was if they stiffed him, he'd go in there and take the correct amount.

The *shipwreck* was a 110 ft( I think ) old wooden ship, moored at the marina on the Pitt river, right beside the Pitt river swing bridge. It had been moored there for months ( I lived on a boat with my parents there at the time ) and the owner of it never came down and never did a damn thing with it. It started sitting lower in the water, and lower as time went by. It was pretty clear it was going to go down sometime soon. So one night I went over to it and onto it and down into it, into the water that it was holding now, and searched around it. It was really not exciting, except for the possibility of the ship going down I guess. It was stupid, no doubt, but I did it whether you choose to believe it or not. the ship did indeed sink the next day or so after that. It pulled a part of the dock along with it as well. Feel free when you're out here to go there and ask around anybody there, the marina is such a dump, but if any of the people there have been there from about 15-18 years ago, they'll know of the boat going down.


Believe it or don't believe it, i'm not going to jump through hoops to try to convince you.



Explianing the whole stories like that in factual terms make them totally believeable. I do have an open mind. I just thought the only way to clear it up was either a huge flamewar (this exact one) or a meet in person. I wanted to do it in person. Personal relationships are so much more than messageboards and I prefered to wait.

So, as is so common, the whole thing is a massive misunderstanding that caused angers to flare prejudices to be made and bad feelings to ensue. Things were taken in a tone that was not at all intended by both sides.

Honestly I do not think our ethics are very different, in fact I think many of your views are pretty level headed and I have never thought you are not a dedicated explorer and I know you take it every bit as serious as any other "career" explorer. I think our online motivations are somewhat different but that is not a values judgement. I like blue, some people like yellow. At the end of the day we are all driven by a need for respect, acceptance and ego. I am no exception to that.

Our exploring styles are different but so are many people's. I would have to say active chases and being caught by security is a rush for me and allthough I do not go up to security and start dancing around, I take the spectre of being caught as a challange and have a great deal of fun playing with the bad cop when it happens. Some days I do not want to get caught some days I don't much care. I try to distill as much of the hype out of UE as possible. That makes it a more meaningfull experience for me. My daily life is filled with stress and angst and UE is an escape from that. For some UE provides excitement much as an extreme hockey fan or a skydiver would. Even Matt and I explore for different reasons and in different ways. And as much as being business partners makes us appear to operate as one, I can assure you we do have very different views on many topics and butt heads often where many insults do ensue. But I do try to limit baseless insults to people I know very very well.

Anything said on the "UEA" board was not intended as a defamation of charecter. They were an expression of concern for you and my desire to deal with this differently based on a misunderstanding. My strong words were chosen to strengthen my position with others on the board so that my veto would stand so that I could get the time I needed. I did not think there was any rush on your part so I figured I would take the time.

Given the chance to do it again I would probably do it differently. But I suppose that does not really say much.

Ultimately we will both be doing UE in walkers in our repective rest homes so there is lots of time to reach an understanding.

If you ever come to Calgary then email Satan@uea.ca and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :)
Skaught 


location:
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Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 27 on 9/24/2005 6:51 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
And for the record there is a board I host on the UEA domain but only half the forums are even UE related.

It is much more of a social place and is by no means official in any way. There are no moderators and very few rules aside from how people are invited to join.

And as much as I host it, I do bow to the wishes of it's members in every way I can. Arbitrarily enforcing my own will upon it is againt my own ethics.

If you ever come to Calgary then email Satan@uea.ca and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :)
Mister Sable 


location:
Palliser City
Gender: Male


The Man with the Hat (the other man)

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 28 on 9/24/2005 7:30 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
That was well put, Skaught. I think it was Anymouse who fed you the notion Jester claimed to be an alligator wrestler. It's good to have the whole story before passing any judgement.

I wrestled with a mid-term paper once... I didn't win.

Cloak and dagger, man, cloak and dagger.
Jester 


location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male


Always just out of sight...

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 29 on 9/25/2005 12:00 AM >
Posted on Forum:
 
Posted by Skaught
Explianing the whole stories like that in factual terms make them totally believeable.


The thing that doesn't make sense is that you claimed to have read the conversation where I explained all this to mouse, and it was explained quite clearly there as well, so why is it suddenly so much clearer now...

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
j0lt 


location:
Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male




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Re: Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 30 on 9/25/2005 3:39 AM >
Posted on Forum:
 
Hey, do I still not exist?

-imaginary Wraith

j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!
Mister Sable 


location:
Palliser City
Gender: Male


The Man with the Hat (the other man)

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 31 on 9/25/2005 3:55 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
You are a shared hallucination. Sorry to break it to you, but as long as we keep eating these gummy worms, we'll still be able to see you.

Cloak and dagger, man, cloak and dagger.
DoubleEh 


location:
London, ON
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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 32 on 9/25/2005 8:39 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Stop typing monotonously on your keyboard, and how about turning your computer off for a minute. Yeah...that's it....feels better right?......no more flame wars......Now comes time to realize there are more important things than being a nerdy-computer bitch yelling inaudibly, how about doing some urban exploration, and not being a bitch about it afterwards. Seriously, you explore some buildings and then you have some big internet-forum-block on your shoulder. What is the point of flame wars on a forum about urban exploration? It's almost as stupid as having a a Customer Complaint Hotline at Auschwitz.

Double Eh out! DeadPigeonSociety.

j0lt 


location:
Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 33 on 9/28/2005 11:13 PM >
Posted on Forum:
 
Posted by Mister Sable
You are a shared hallucination. Sorry to break it to you, but as long as we keep eating these gummy worms, we'll still be able to see you.


Mmmmmmmm, gummy worms...
I don't wanna see what happens when you run out! :p

j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!
FyRePhReAk 


location:
Calgary, Alberta
Gender: Male


disassociative

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 34 on 9/30/2005 4:42 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by j0lt


Mmmmmmmm, gummy worms...
I don't wanna see what happens when you run out! :p


wander East Hastings @ 3am.

Walk away.
Pickwick 


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Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 35 on 10/7/2005 6:35 AM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
Well the only thing I know is that Skaught, Anymouse, Fyre, and the rest who show at the UEA meet nights have helped me greatly to get into UE.

I met them when I was a bigtime noob, and I owe alot to them for the better places I've seen. They've never tried to hinder my desire to get into exploration and are always helpful.

If anyone has, or has had, a negative oppinion of me I'm not about to get defensive. I'd be more inclined to ask what led them to the negative oppinion (and even more likely just to let it go). You can't please everyone, and everyone has a right to their own oppinion.

Oh and Redseven - yes I'd be in meeting up with you to discuss the possibility of a few missions.
[last edit 10/7/2005 6:38 AM by Pickwick - edited 1 times]

Kay O. Sweaver 


location:
Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male


Happiness is saying yes more often than no.

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 36 on 10/7/2005 8:05 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Hey Pickwick, I was sorry to see you miss the rescheduled noob drain. I think we're going to try and do another one before it gets stupidly cold, I'll be sure to post that sort of thing here.

==========================
Amy Smith is an infected slut
wheel 


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calgary
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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 37 on 10/8/2005 4:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
sorry i didnt read the whole thread, i skipped to the bottom when the bickering started. iam in calgary. sadly due to family commitments i have very very little time to explore. one trip to drumheller is all that has been achieved this summer(pics posted on this site). thanks to who ever it was that invited me to the hop & brew, i will make it one of these days.

Pickwick 


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Gender: Male




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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 38 on 10/12/2005 5:47 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Hi KAOS, yeah I was really hoping to get to that. Would have been good, I'm not that experienced with drains at all. Hopefully there was a good turnout. I go to the UEA site way mostly, so I'm sure I'll hear about the next one there. Hopefully I'll make it to another meet night too. Totally forgot about it today.


defective 


location:
calgary SW
Gender: Female


only slightly psycho

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Re: Is there any activity from Calgary & area explorers here?/Jester vs. Skaught Catfight
<Reply # 39 on 11/10/2005 4:42 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Well, I used to resent UEA for totally brick-walling me out of any and all gatherings, message boards, and activities, but maybe I'm glad not be involved in all the fighting!!

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