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Kakesu
location:
England. Fun!
Gender: Male
printf("shiver in eternal darkness/n");
 |  |  | Air underground
< on 4/24/2005 2:10 AM >
|  | | | Like most people, I enjoy oxygen and breathe frequently. I was in a drain a couple of days ago when it ocurred to me that I was fifteen minutes from an exit, and if I started to grey out, I'd be invariably screwed.
Basically, my question is do you have to worry about air in drains? If so, is there a rule of thumb for how deep is too deep? At work today (I work in a hospital) it ocurred to me that I could buy a Sats monitor, but it turns out those things are super expensive. Should I get a canary?
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KnifeLord (Staxx)
location:
Colorado-Longmont
Gender: Male
| |  |  | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 1 on 4/24/2005 6:25 AM >
| | | | lol. Well I would say that as long as you feel like you have plenty of oxygen you likely do. If you are really worried though, many companies make small oxygen breath giveing items, usually used for watersports. They genrally give only about 1-5 min of oxygen if you concerve it. You may want to carry one along.
-Knife
PS: I can post links if you want some)
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TheRev
 
location:
Ohio
Gender: Male
We go in like professionals, like Charles Bronson...
| | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 2 on 4/24/2005 6:31 AM >
| | | | If you're interested in draining you should read this: http://www.infiltr...ions-approach.html
if you have already, sorry, but it's pretty informative and interesting. They have a section the risk and probability of bad air that's well worth reading.
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Andy "Not Dice" Dice
location:
We can live in dumpsters if we have to, MA
Gender: Male
UE'ing is for pussies, bro.
| | | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 3 on 4/24/2005 6:39 AM >
| | | | Posted by KnifeLord (Staxx)
lol. Well I would say that as long as you feel like you have plenty of oxygen you likely do. If you are really worried though, many companies make small oxygen breath giveing items, usually used for watersports. They genrally give only about 1-5 min of oxygen if you concerve it. You may want to carry one along.
-Knife
PS: I can post links if you want some)
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The first things I thought about when I read the original post were those things in the movie Sphere, the little quart-sized oxygen tanks with a mouthpiece that you can breath straight out of? I wasn't sure if they existed or not though, so I didn't say nothin'.  They're the size of a water bottle, so if you just carried one in your pack or pocket or something, you could whip it out if you start feeling funky, turn around, and by the time it runs out, you'll probably be back to safe[r] air.
--- 456.photo.to --- |
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KnifeLord (Staxx)
location:
Colorado-Longmont
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 4 on 4/24/2005 6:44 AM >
| | | | Idk about a waterbottle sized one, but it's likely. Most people know of the James Bond movie "For Your Eyes Only" in which james uses a small moulthpeice type of oxygen for breating it has little oxygen things on both sides. This may have been scifi at the time idk, but it does exist because both cannoe/kayacers and scubadivers buy them.
-Knife
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Billmac
location:
Scarborough
Gender: Male
well this ought to be different
| | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 5 on 4/24/2005 6:49 AM >
| | | | http://www.spareair.com/
i've got one, used to bemy dad's when he was diving. I've never needed to even bring it with me.
Pretty expensive, its probably cheaper to buy some sort of toxic gas ensing equipment instead. Plus,you only get 30-50 breaths, which is enough for a diver to get to the surface, but might not be enough if you're climbing around in a drain.
[last edit 4/24/2005 6:54 AM by Billmac - edited 1 times]
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lordpook
Gender: Male
| | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 6 on 4/24/2005 6:53 AM >
| | | | Actually these things do exist, and they're very low-tech. They're called rebreathers, and basically consist of a pocket sized mouthpeice with some sort of chemical inside. The chemical reaction is able to turn your exhaled carbon dioxide back into oxygen, but only for so long. After breathing this recycled breath for say, 10 minutes (total guess), it will become toxic I beleive. These things were phased out after scuba was invented, and you might be better off with a small scuba tank. I don't know if you can still find rebreathers, and don't feel like scouring the net for them right now. Of course, you won't often need anything like that... the only trip I've ever read of where it would have been handy was this sickening voyage: http://www.actionsquad.org/stahl.htm [note: this info is not very accurate...see uncle goose's post below]
[last edit 4/24/2005 11:51 PM by lordpook - edited 1 times]
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KnifeLord (Staxx)
location:
Colorado-Longmont
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 7 on 4/24/2005 7:15 AM >
| | | | You both found some pritty extreme versions. The oxygen thing is usually fairly small, true it gives you only a small limited number of breaths but when you reach air that is tooo low on oxygen it really shouldn't take you more then about 10 breaths to reach where your going, especally of pure oxygen.
-Knife
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Uncle Goose
  
location:
Ghent, Belgium
Gender: Male
The Goose knows best.
| | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 8 on 4/24/2005 10:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by lordpook
Actually these things do exist, and they're very low-tech. They're called rebreathers, and basically consist of a pocket sized mouthpeice with some sort of chemical inside. The chemical reaction is able to turn your exhaled carbon dioxide back into oxygen, but only for so long. After breathing this recycled breath for say, 10 minutes (total guess), it will become toxic I beleive. These things were phased out after scuba was invented, and you might be better off with a small scuba tank. I don't know if you can still find rebreathers, and don't feel like scouring the net for them right now. Of course, you won't often need anything like that... the only trip I've ever read of where it would have been handy was this sickening voyage: http://www.actionsquad.org/stahl.htm
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Rebreathers are still used in mining but are way too expensive and bulky to carry arround. And replacing the scrubber is also expensive afterwards. I had a few trainingscourses with rebreathers some years ago and they not exactly lightweights  .
A 1000 days of sorrow can disapear in a split second, it takes only one person to make it happen. |
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Caveman6666
location:
NY
| | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 9 on 4/24/2005 2:01 PM >
| | | | Air quality meter, though they ain't cheap.
Yet another unoriginal generic UE website. GODDAM! |
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Elshar
location:
MN/NY
Gender: Male
| | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 10 on 4/24/2005 11:36 PM >
| | | | If your talking strictly drains, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Due to the nature of drains, with storm vents and outfalls into fresh air, and usually a decent amount of flow in them, they get good air. Other tunnels that have no venting though, like the sewer story posted above are where you might need something. Thats my two cents anyway.
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Kakesu
location:
England. Fun!
Gender: Male
printf("shiver in eternal darkness/n");
| | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 11 on 4/25/2005 2:03 AM >
| | | | Thanks everybody. Especially for the excellent Cave Clan document, that was great reading material. It was good to learn that my air worries are mostly groundless, and there were a few very sensible tips I never would have thought of by myself. Also, I loved reading about the drain chicken. Much cooler than sewer crocs, IMO.
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hammy
location:
UK - South West
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Air underground
<Reply # 12 on 4/25/2005 1:53 PM >
| | | | As long as Oxygen exists in the minimal percentage and its the other gases causing you problems. You could use whats been used in mining for many years. A 'self rescuer' its small and like other things listed here is a chemical scrubber but does depend on the O2% being at a level which I suspect it would be in a drain rather then a fire removing the oxygen. I'v seen these change hands for as little as £50. A miners self rescuer which will give one hours breathing in gasious conditions. I'v seen these things on ebay now and then.
A little medical information:
Bad Air - Co2 - Headache, panting, light headedness, unconscious, death. The problem is not always the lack of Oxygen in the air but the level of Co2 in the air. Breathing is stimulated by the level of Co2 in the body, we create Co2, too much becomes a poison. This is a problem divers have because they build up Co2 the further they stay under. The answer, get out of the area.
Links:
http://www.msanet....og/product811.html
http://www.cscc.or...16_CO2_Article.htm
http://www.darkpla...ewtopic.php?t=2212
http://www.darkpla...iewtopic.php?t=993
A diagram
http://www.darkpla...ge.php?pic_id=2647
Hope that lot helps.
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