Infiltration

Pyrodesiac location: NL, Canada Gender: Male TNT can make a dull day fun! \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 60 on 7/16/2003 2:13 PM >

	I'll clarify. Members of SFOD-Delta, U.S. Army Special Forces Group, and the 160th SOAR require a two-year degree. Officers require a two-year degree for any special operations unit. I was too generalized before. edit: Pyro, modify this post to be what you wanted to say, I deleted the two that had followed it... Jester [last edit 7/16/2003 9:20 AM by Jester - edited 1 times] Only turkies have left wings. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

j0lt

location:
Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 61 on 7/18/2003 4:54 PM >

Posted by Conundrum
how do you do the water infiltration, silent movement, and no foot print tricks to the boots ?

Here are a few counter-tracking methods I've learned through ninjutsu:

Water Infiltration: What depth are you talking about? Swimming? Wading?

Silent Movement: As I've posted in probably more than one other thread, walk slowly, rolling the foot from the heel, along the outer edge of the foot, and finally onto the ball of the foot. If there are dry leaves or other noisy objects all over, the sweeping step movement works well too.

Foot Prints: While there is no real way to leave no footprints at all, short of removing them as you make them, finding places to step that will leave less of a trace than others is important. Tying cloth sacks over your feet can help reduce the print your foot makes, as well as making it less defined (re: direction) One other method, particular to ninjutsu, is the Lung Pu pivot.
It's very hard to explain, but I'm sure if you go to the library and read up, you'll get the idea.

j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!

Pyrodesiac location: NL, Canada Gender: Male TNT can make a dull day fun! \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 62 on 7/18/2003 7:02 PM >

	To get rid of footprints you have to take a branch and sweep them away. It takes a long time, so it's not usually feasible. Only turkies have left wings. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

Grozny location: USA Gender: Male \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 63 on 7/18/2003 11:19 PM >

	Uh..call me simple...but whatever happened to wearing some cargo pants and work boots to go look at an abandoned building? We just went into an abandoned mill right on a main road. There were many "no trespassing" signs up, cars going by, and part of the building was still in use. Rather than waiting for nightfall and donning some super duper ghillie suit, we just walked right down the road and into the building. I understand some people, like the Wraiths, love the covert aspect of infiltrating. I do it myself on occasion, but only on targets so risky that it wouldn't really matter what you were caught wearing; you were toast anyway. I think it's cool to do that sometimes. Each to his own. If you like wearing camouflage, than good for you. If you wear normal clothes, wonderful. Do not take advice from some wannabe "commando". Do not let anyone tell you what you must own to successfully explore. There is no right or wrong way to explore (unless you vandalize, that ain't kosher). It has been my experience that when self proclaimed experts start offering advice, RUN! This thread basically boils down to some guy/girl/kid long on "gun talk" and short on actual experience. "I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream. That's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight... razor... and surviving." -Col. Kurtz.

Pyrodesiac location: NL, Canada Gender: Male TNT can make a dull day fun! \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 64 on 7/19/2003 1:11 AM >

	There are some sites where you should just go all out, getting caught means getting fucked. E.G. inside the building. However, wearing camo won't get you caught, it helps keep you concealed. Disguises are useful for infiltrations. As well, cargo pants and work boots are good, but they should be dark. best to be able to hide if you need to. Only turkies have left wings. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

Green Man location: Niagara Escarpment Gender: Male \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 65 on 7/19/2003 7:05 AM >

	Pyrodesiac, sweeping away your footprints with a branch won't fool an experienced tracker for a moment. It's like walking backwards. A good tracker will see right through that old chestnut. And if you have dogs on your tail, sweeping the ground with a branch will only make it easier for them. Subdued clothing is important, but situational awareness is more important. Know where all the cover is, know where the shadows are. If you move, move slowly and with as much cover behind you to obscure you. Remain in the shadows. All the camouflage in the world is useless if you don't use all the available cover. Don't just move with an eye towards that destination you have in mind. Know where all the suitable cover is between where you move from to where you are moving to. Look before you move. If a door suddenly opens and a security guard exits the building you want to infil, where will you hide. Think of where you'll hide before you move from cover. Be aware of everything in your environment. Camouflage is merely an aid. It's not a perfect solution. It won't make you invisible or invincble. Ultimately your skill level is the bigger deciding factor.

Pyrodesiac location: NL, Canada Gender: Male TNT can make a dull day fun! \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 66 on 7/19/2003 3:25 PM >

	Sweeping footprints is the commonly used method. An expert tracker could see past it, but when are you going to be followed by an expert tracker? It dosen't leave sweepmarks if you do it properly. Only turkies have left wings. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

j0lt

location:
Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 67 on 7/19/2003 8:23 PM >

Posted by Pyrodesiac
Sweeping footprints is the commonly used method. An expert tracker could see past it, but when are you going to be followed by an expert tracker? It dosen't leave sweepmarks if you do it properly.

Using a branch to sweep your trail clean will just make it look swept.
A lowly security guard, if they even look at the ground should realize that the ground shouldn't look completely undisturbed.
Best not to make footprints where they'll be visible, so as to avoid the whole hassle. (walk a little ways off the path so as not to leave a trail for anyone to follow on it)

j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!

Pyrodesiac

location:
NL, Canada
Gender: Male

TNT can make a dull day fun!

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 68 on 7/20/2003 3:02 PM >

Posted by j0lt

Walking off the path is best, but sweeping footprints does not mean making sure they look swept. There is a technique to it.

Only turkies have left wings.

Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

Mochi location: West Jordan, Utah Gender: Male Stare deep into a kitty's nose. \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 69 on 7/21/2003 12:36 AM >

	Y'know, you could just do what I do and HOVER over the floor, like a spooky vampire UE boy. Maybe some of you can't do this yet, but once you reach 7th level, you will be able to, don't worry. >_< Mochi, hand cracks HAVE been turned! JESUS SAVES!!! (And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!)

j0lt

location:
Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 70 on 7/22/2003 4:07 PM >

Posted by mochi
Y'know, you could just do what I do and HOVER over the floor, like a spooky vampire UE boy. Maybe some of you can't do this yet, but once you reach 7th level, you will be able to, don't worry.

>_< Mochi, hand cracks HAVE been turned!

But won't that make you more visible, since you'll be raised off the ground?
Or can you crouch while hovering?

j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!

Chud Try a 211, you'll just get 187'd... \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 71 on 7/22/2003 5:22 PM >

	As long as you're wearing Tabis, no one will notice you... Nobody will not agree with the Russians, ever on anything. -Kimmo

Jester

location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male

Always just out of sight...

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 72 on 7/22/2003 5:36 PM >

Posted by Chud-bait
As long as you're wearing Tabis, no one will notice you...

Finally somebody understands !

It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

Mochi

location:
West Jordan, Utah
Gender: Male

Stare deep into a kitty's nose.

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 73 on 7/22/2003 7:10 PM >

Posted by j0lt
But won't that make you more visible, since you'll be raised off the ground?
Or can you crouch while hovering?

Actually, it's MUCH more effective to just double jump wherever you go, like in Castlevania and stuff. Tracks are hard to following when it's ten feet to the next footprint.

>_< Mochi, such a good kid.

JESUS SAVES!!!
(And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!)

RipRoaringReverend location: utah, riverton Gender: Male lamotriginated. \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 74 on 7/22/2003 9:17 PM >

	props on the refference to castlevania. boots, long pants, jacket, gloves. all black. also, depending on the location, black helmets. also also, when near outside windows, use LED raver light rather than flashlights, or if moonlight permits, no lights at all. P.S. it seems you and lothar have left to get pictures of columbia elementary. i will not tollerate insolence.

Pyrodesiac location: NL, Canada Gender: Male TNT can make a dull day fun! \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 75 on 7/23/2003 12:13 AM >

	Gloves are good, something no-one has mentioned before. I have to remove them for smoe things, but they generally serve two purposes. They prevent your skin from standing out, and protect the skin while climbing, etc. They mask fingerprints, if you're that paranoid. Only turkies have left wings. Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

j0lt

location:
Kobe, Japan
Gender: Male

Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body
<Reply # 76 on 7/23/2003 5:20 PM >

Posted by Pyrodesiac
Gloves are good, something no-one has mentioned before. I have to remove them for smoe things, but they generally serve two purposes. They prevent your skin from standing out, and protect the skin while climbing, etc. They mask fingerprints, if you're that paranoid.

Holy crap! Yeah.
I usually wear fingerless, as I have yet to find a pair of good tight leather gloves that fits me properly. (usually the fingers are too wide and short on the glove)
But yeah, aside from rope climbing, they're great. Especially when dealing with barbed wire.

j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!

Solid Shadow location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Gender: Male "I have clouded your mind so you cannot see me" \| \| \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 77 on 7/23/2003 5:29 PM >

	I use a pair of leather bottom spandex top bicycle gloves. They fit snugly and are great for climbing. I can even use my digital camera pretty well while wearing them. I usually have little need for camo in the city, but I have used it once to great effect. Who knows what places lurk abandoned to the minds of men?...The Shadow knows...MUHAAAA HAAA HAAA HAA!

Green Man location: Niagara Escarpment Gender: Male \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 78 on 7/24/2003 12:22 AM >

	I'm personally quite partial to Nomex flight gloves. Hatch http://www.hatch-corp.com/newtac/tac.html is one manufacturer. The fit is snug, the length of them is great (in winter you can put your sleeve over them to cut drafts, and in summer in the woods, you can put your sleeve over them to keep out the wee beasties.) and they make great liner gloves in winter. On their own they're good to about -5, -10 if you're really moving. Plus, they're Nomex. Since I'm around a fire almost every day, they're great to have on when you need to shift that one log over a bit. One odd thing that I've noticed (as have a lot of other people I'm in contact with) is that when they get wet, you can count on having patches of black all over your hands since their dye setting process seesm to be a bit wonky. The first time i noticed this they told me it was an anomaly, but I've ownerd several of their gloves and they all do the same thing. Other people I know have had it happen to them also. The sage green ones don't have that problem though. Odd. Hatch makes a bunch of different gloves, all of them pretty intense. Directed almost entirely at a law enforcement market, they can of course be subverted for other purposes. ;)

j0lt location: Kobe, Japan Gender: Male \| \|	Re: Dealing with clothes concealment and protection of the body <Reply # 79 on 7/24/2003 8:13 PM >

	I just checked out a store in Vancouver that used to be a mountaineering and mountain biking store, but now carries only rescue equipment. (mountain rescue, etc...) They had a number of gloves that would be excellent for this type of activity. http://www.carletonrescue.com j0lt: Larger than life and twice as ugly!

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