|
Giblet
 
location:
Atlanta
Gender: Male
 |  | Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
< on 10/7/2004 1:29 PM >
|  | | | Is there a "Bestest-Ever" set of picks that can easily be concealed (besides the obvious laminated video-rental card -- and the 10 pound sledge hammer)?
Has anyone ever used one of the electric G-Spot-Shaking lock guns? Do they work (on locks)?
Has anyone ever gotten caught with a set of picks? Gory details?
Do any of you have serious misgivings about crossing this moral boundary?
Inquiring gnomes want to mine...
|
|
Gunslinger
  
location:
The Wasteland "Peel Region"
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 1 on 10/7/2004 2:12 PM >
| | | | DO NOT USE electric lockpick guns, the do not work at all. If your going to invest in a lockpick gun just get a standard handpump one. There is no real best lockpick set ever seeing as they should all contain the same basic picks, as for concealment you kind of just have to figure out a way you can do it. Also i belive picking is one of the best non destructive method of getting into a place, seeing as if you do it properly it leaves no trace.
[00:22:07] * Roadwolf prefers tampons over pads.
[19:42:01] <Roadwolf> i like penis.
17:04:43] <Avatar-X> i saw a husky outside earlier today 17:05:11] <Silent_Knight> you didn't get shagadelic on it, didya' Av? ;p [17:05:12] <Avatar-X> yeah i don't know why :P |
|
Giblet
location:
Atlanta
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 2 on 10/7/2004 4:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by Gunslinger
DO NOT USE electric lockpick guns, the do not work at all. If your going to invest in a lockpick gun just get a standard handpump one. There is no real best lockpick set ever seeing as they should all contain the same basic picks, as for concealment you kind of just have to figure out a way you can do it. Also i belive picking is one of the best non destructive method of getting into a place, seeing as if you do it properly it leaves no trace.
|
I used a buddy's brand-new gun to try and descramble my front door's Schrade... I got it open...with a key.
I figured it was just a bad gun (hand-pumped spring-poppin' dealie). I didn't note the manufacturer because I had gotten scotch in my eyes. Maybe the Schrade is just a tough lock for a gun. It made short work of a name-brand bike lock though.
BTW: you can make the spring-popper guns a lot quieter by drilling out the rivets in the handle and using silicone sealant to glue little strips of sorbothane to the inside of the grip and then using small nuts/bolts to put it back together. This cuts the noise they make by half, and it no longer sounds like you're using a cold-chisel (it's still quite loud though, compared to a pick and a screwdriver).
|
|
ofberenonehand
location:
Minn-e-snow-ta
"Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve."
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 3 on 10/7/2004 7:58 PM >
| | | | I'm a huge fan of traditional lock pick sets. They are small and relatively concealable. They are non-destructive, quiet, etc...
I haven't had much experience with the legal end of them. As far as I know they are perfectly legal to posess. If they have any evidence that they were used in the comission of a burglary (entering a habbitable building) it will likely be construed as a burglary tool. I was with a friend when he was arrested. It was for something entirely non-ue or even building related. The police confiscated his pick set even though they had no legal grounds to do so. They are one of those items that while technically legal will certainly not help you in legal situations.
"That's What Government Is For; To Get In A Man's Way" -Mal |
|
Servo
 
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 4 on 10/7/2004 8:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by berenonehand
As far as I know they are perfectly legal to posess.
|
This depends on the locale. In AL, I know they're legal, but I believe in some states they aren't. Check on your local laws.
As for the "ethics" of it, I'm not gonna try to tell you what you should be doing. But to share my personal ethical viewpoint on it... I would use picks if there was no unrestricted means of entry, since for the 1 or 2 times you're going to be picking that lock, the damage to it will be neglidgible. (Over time picks can damage the pins, though, and electric pick guns will do damage considerably faster.)
Just be sure to lock up when you're done.  Leave the location as you found it; that's one ethical viewpoint I will try to force on people.
[last edit 10/7/2004 8:29 PM by Servo - edited 1 times]
|
|
SnakeEyes
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 5 on 10/8/2004 12:07 AM >
| | | | Electric Lockpick gun:
Pros: The quickest method of opening any pin and tumbler lock (that doesn't have security pins).
Cons: VERY Loud, and damages the lock (can compess springs or worse), and expensive
Hand pick gun:
Pros: Quickly opens lock (if you know how to use it right and have practice), is more quiet (compared to electric), fairly cheap ($40)
Cons: Hard to hide, doesn't work on locks with security pins or very corrigated (sp) keyway
Hand picks:
Pros: Easy to conceal, work on any lock (if you know how to use em), cheap(er), virtually no chance of altering the lock except leaving tiny scratches inside the lock that only lock ferensics experts would take the time to look for
Cons: compared to the pick guns, virtually none- except legal aspects and perhaps the fact that you have to practice a *lot* to get any good out of them.
Either learn to hand pick, or use the hand gun. Do NOT use the electric gun on any lock that you or anyone else actually uses (key most likely won't work).
Pity the poor agnostic dyslexic insomniac; he stays up all night, wondering if there really is a dog. |
|
SnakeEyes
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 6 on 10/8/2004 12:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by Servo
This depends on the locale. In AL, I know they're legal, but I believe in some states they aren't. Check on your local laws.
As for the "ethics" of it, I'm not gonna try to tell you what you should be doing. But to share my personal ethical viewpoint on it... I would use picks if there was no unrestricted means of entry, since for the 1 or 2 times you're going to be picking that lock, the damage to it will be neglidgible. (Over time picks can damage the pins, though, and electric pick guns will do damage considerably faster.)
Just be sure to lock up when you're done. Leave the location as you found it; that's one ethical viewpoint I will try to force on people.
|
In the US, the only place where it is entirly illegal to be in possetion of them is Washington D.C. Most everywhere, however, the law of "possetion of burlgary tools" states that they are not legal if you have "intent of burglary." So i would be cought dead with them on an exploration.
Pity the poor agnostic dyslexic insomniac; he stays up all night, wondering if there really is a dog. |
|
Feztaa
location:
Victoria, Canada
Gender: Male
Hide yo kids, hide yo wife
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 7 on 10/8/2004 12:12 AM >
| | | | I believe that picking locks is an inherently amoral activity (eg, it is without morality, neither moral nor immoral). It depends on what you plan to do after you've picked the lock that determines whether or not the picking was moral.
If you're going to stick to the proper ethics (take only pictures, leave only footprints), then picking is perfectly moral. If you're a vandal, tagger, thief, etc., then picking is immoral... but that probably wouldn't bother you because you're already vandalising or stealing anyway.
I also personally never enter inhabited residences unless invited by a resident... I would hate it if some guy was in my house, even if he was just taking pictures (especially if he was just taking pictures!), so I give that courtesy to other people... the only times I've ever UE'd a residence were when a) the building was under construction and nobody lived in it yet, b) when it was abandoned and nobody lived in it anymore, and c) when it was in the middle of burning down and it was totally vacated. Aside from that, I stick to industrial/commercial locations.
|
|
Feztaa
location:
Victoria, Canada
Gender: Male
Hide yo kids, hide yo wife
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 8 on 10/8/2004 12:16 AM >
| | | | Posted by SnakeEyes
however, the law of "possetion of burlgary tools" states that they are not legal if you have "intent of burglary." So i would be cought dead with them on an exploration.
|
I do not think this means what you think it means...
"I would be caught dead with them on an exploration" -- so if you were exploring, and you died, we'd find picks on your corpse? But not if you were living... so you only take picks into a building that you plan to die in?
|
|
SnakeEyes
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 9 on 10/8/2004 2:09 AM >
| | | | wouldn't* pardon my typo...
Pity the poor agnostic dyslexic insomniac; he stays up all night, wondering if there really is a dog. |
|
Caveman6666
location:
NY
| |  | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 10 on 10/8/2004 12:33 PM >
| | | | Posted by SnakeEyes
Most everywhere, however, the law of "possetion of burlgary tools" states that they are not legal if you have "intent of burglary."
|
Applies to far more than picks; for example with things like screwdrivers and crowbars which would be overlooked in the standard toolbox, you can be charged with possession of burglary tools if caught with them in the wrong place.
Yet another unoriginal generic UE website. GODDAM! |
|
Rary
location:
Central LI, NY
| |  |  | |  | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 11 on 10/25/2004 10:17 PM >
| | | | 90% of any picking can be done with three picks, most locksmiths I know prefer 1-4 picks ot of a huge set. Get a large set and use them all, you will find that when you are finally able to pick your practise locks, you'll be down to 1-4 favorites. Get a set with @ least two rakes and a feeler....
I normally use two rakes a tension wrench, and my favorite feeler, all this can be hidden in the sole of your boot. but a better practise would be to ditch the picks @ the first sign of trouble. shave the extra metal off the picks (taking into account useability), paint the handle portions grey. It would be very hard to find them once ditched. hell you could even plunge them into the ground for later retreval, If you were lucky enough to be outside...
|
|
Giblet
location:
Atlanta
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 12 on 10/27/2004 7:21 PM >
| | | | Posted by Rary
90% of any picking can be done with three picks, most locksmiths I know prefer 1-4 picks ot of a huge set. Get a large set and use them all, you will find that when you are finally able to pick your practise locks, you'll be down to 1-4 favorites. Get a set with @ least two rakes and a feeler....
I normally use two rakes a tension wrench, and my favorite feeler, all this can be hidden in the sole of your boot. but a better practise would be to ditch the picks @ the first sign of trouble. shave the extra metal off the picks (taking into account useability), paint the handle portions grey. It would be very hard to find them once ditched. hell you could even plunge them into the ground for later retreval, If you were lucky enough to be outside...
|
I use two rakes and a torque -- or consider the door locked.
As for hiding them; the LEOs here use metal detectors all the time. Paranoid bastids. (I don't blame them)
I dipped the handles of mine in that liquid insulation gunk they carry at Home Despot. It's black and shiny, but better camo than stainless and they make very little noise when dropped/tossed.
Damn you, Schlage!
|
|
Mark
Very Noble Donor
location:
South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 13 on 10/27/2004 9:37 PM >
| | | | By the way Inpenity and I are practiceing are picking. Is the lockpick forum public private?
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
|
Inphenity
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 14 on 10/28/2004 6:57 AM >
| | | | *mumbles about mushroom pins and throws picks on desk*
... well yea actually this is a flashlight in my pocket .. but im still happy to see you |
|
Giblet
location:
Atlanta
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 15 on 11/1/2004 2:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
By the way Inpenity and I are practiceing are picking. Is the lockpick forum public private?
|
I'd be interested in being added to that forum... I'm practicing on Schlage's "Maximum Security" barrels. They're very hard to pick because I keep throwing the damn thing across the room. In other news; throwing a Schlage "Max' Security" lock against cinder blocks, poured-concrete, or a Ryobi table saw base stand will not make the pins magically align at the shear, nor do they show any observable response to the foulest of curses or threats.
Edited for gnillepssim.
[last edit 11/1/2004 2:26 PM by Giblet - edited 1 times]
|
|
Skaught
location:
Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 16 on 11/5/2004 5:26 AM >
| | | | You get caught with picks, you will be charged with tools and likely b&e. No question.
charged and guilty are two different things but $30,000 worth of legal fees later and few days in a holding cell aint worth it.
I would consider picks something that a professioanl explorer should use only in very carefully considered situations. If you are not willing to take the time to learn to use hand picks you should not be doing this.
I can only count 3 situations in over 4 yearas and hundreds of targets. And I am convinced that with more patience they may not have needed picks.
If you ever come to Calgary then email Satan@uea.ca and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
|
Inphenity
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 17 on 11/5/2004 5:33 AM >
| | | | well i myself am a hobbyist picker ... im using a home made set of hand picks (i love to work with metal) and as far as picking a lock at a site goes .. im way to paranoid to have anything that could be a b&e tool with me... most of the time there is a much easier way in anyway
... well yea actually this is a flashlight in my pocket .. but im still happy to see you |
|
Skaught
location:
Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 18 on 11/5/2004 7:18 AM >
| | | | Posted by Inphenity
... most of the time there is a much easier way in anyway
|
Precisely. It seems the longer someone is in UE the less this issue comes up.
If you ever come to Calgary then email Satan@uea.ca and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
|
Giblet
location:
Atlanta
Gender: Male
| | Re: Picks, electro-jostlers, and morality
<Reply # 19 on 11/5/2004 9:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by Rev. Skaught
Precisely. It seems the longer someone is in UE the less this issue comes up.
|
My first UE was in 1967 - a loooong time ago. I hear what you're saying Rev, but you're generalizing. As a general rule though, you are correct.
I've used picks a total of five times (all were successful and 'necessary'). I've used the Really Big lock picks (bolt cutters) twice (the padlocks had been installed by people who had no right to put them there in the first place and they didn't learn the first time...)
Sometimes, there's just no alternative, you must pick a lock.
If someone documents the abandoned Carmichael theaters around here it will be because they can use picks -- there are no windows or roof hatches, no tunnels or any other point of entry other than locked doors that have a welded plate guarding the bolt (hinges are inside). There's a ticket window but even if you could get through the bullet-proof glass, there's another locked door to deal with.
Carrying picks around a site you're exploring is a great way to go to prison. However, if you have thoroughly scouted a site and are certain that the risk of being caught in the act is acceptable (ie, zero), there's little risk and no harm in using them, as long as you use common sense.
I DO recommend to anyone who does this; unlock the door and then immediately hide the picks where they can't possibly be found, even by a team of forensic specialists and their dogs who are searching for them VERY hard. Do NOT hide them back in your car!!! If you get caught, the police have every right to search you and your car.
If you're caught inside, just BS the catching persons: "The door was open and I figured there's no harm -- I grabbed my camera and was just taking some pictures...ya know, old buildings are really interesting! Blah blah blah."
When you're done and ready to leave, make SURE nobody is watching and use the picks to lock up after yourself. Be ready to toss them far away at the first hint of trouble.
Problem is, the Carmichaels use Schlages. So, I started this thread...
Schlage locks are a bitch, and I'm actually considering giving up on this opportunity. Failure is a bitter pill that eats away at you guts like a Drano cocktail.
|
|
Powered by AvBoard AvBoard version 1.5 alpha
Page Generated In: 78 ms
|
|
Ethics