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Pyrodesiac
location:
NL, Canada
Gender: Male
TNT can make a dull day fun!
 |  |  | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 20 on 5/1/2003 7:58 PM >
|  | | | Only one problem with that theory. A car's engine is pretty hot, but by the time it goes through the hood it's not giving off much heat. And knowledge of Grade 10 physics should tell you that the hood is a reflective surface, so it will block infra-red radiation. So, how do cars open them, if they don't emit infra-red radiation. If you want a better illustration of this, find a radiant energy chart. Here's a crappy one:
Low Frequency High Frequency
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Radio Waves Infra-red Visible Light Ultraviolet Microwaves Gamma
The slashes represent increasing frequency("hills and valleys" per second.) Infrared radiation means below red, while ultraviolet mean above violet. All this means is the spectrum (like in a rainbow) is nothing but radiation. The frequencies increase from red through violet. If you keep going, you have gamma rays. Radio waves are also infrared. It's not a great explanation, but you can find it much more concisely in a Physics book.
Only turkies have left wings.
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon. |
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MacGyver
location:
St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 21 on 5/1/2003 8:21 PM >
| | | | Posted by Pyrodesiac
Only one problem with that theory. A car's engine is pretty hot, but by the time it goes through the hood it's not giving off much heat. And knowledge of Grade 10 physics should tell you that the hood is a reflective surface, so it will block infra-red radiation. So, how do cars open them, if they don't emit infra-red radiation. If you want a better illustration of this, find a radiant energy chart. Here's a crappy one:
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If you've ever put your hand on the hood of a car that has been running for a while, you'll see that it gets warm (my cat homes in on warm hoods to sleep on). It's probably true that the hood blocks the engines IR radiation, but the engine warms the hood up via a combination of convection and radiation and the hood gives off it's own IR radiation and heat.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Avatar-X
     
Alpha Husky
location:
West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| |  | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 22 on 5/1/2003 11:00 PM >
| | | | Theoretically, if you could walk very slowly in front of a PIR sensor, it would not trigger.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Frost
location:
K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 23 on 5/1/2003 11:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Theoretically, if you could walk very slowly in front of a PIR sensor, it would not trigger.
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It works, but you must be very very slow, if you flinch, or even stumble a little, you'll set it off. It's a real bitch. I use to work as a Security Guard in this huge gov't building and on the graveyard shift I would attempt to make it by without being detected. I did it after about 20 tries, it would take forever to do it anywhere on a UE. Unless of course the sensor was hidden from view.
Even then, you run risk of accidently setting it off.
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
location:
West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 24 on 5/1/2003 11:30 PM >
| | | | Hmm... If you could get near the sensor without setting it off, ie, under it, you could slip a piece of glass in front of it and tape it there.
I'm gonna go grab my old PIR and play with it 
huskies - such fluff. |
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MacGyver
location:
St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 25 on 5/2/2003 2:22 AM >
| | | | but wouldn't shoving the glass in front of it change the radiation entering it enough to trigger it?
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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The Dark One
location:
Montreal, Quebec
Gender: Male
Twist
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 26 on 5/2/2003 2:49 AM >
| | | | Posted by Pyrodesiac
A car's engine is pretty hot, but by the time it goes through the hood it's not giving off much heat. And knowledge of Grade 10 physics should tell you that the hood is a reflective surface, so it will block infra-red radiation. So, how do cars open them, if they don't emit infra-red radiation. If you want a better illustration of this, find a radiant energy chart. Here's a crappy one:
Low Frequency High Frequency
/ \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Radio Waves Infra-red Visible Light Ultraviolet Microwaves Gamma
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Not quite.
 up_wavelength.GIF (13 kb, 500x157)
[thank you, nasa]
And if you'd taken a Grade 10 Science course, you'd probably know that anything even the slightest bit opaque is considered 'reflective'. Besides, since hoods are metal, they're pretty good conductors of heat and electricity.
*** MsMaul was kicked by MsMaul (I didn't eat enough bagels!!!!111) |
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Lamer
| |  | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 27 on 5/2/2003 3:28 AM >
| | | | wow...lots of response to this thread
chud...I think you are thinking of the active kind of motion detectors that radiate energy into the environment(be it radio, ultrsonic, microwave) and then react to changes to the amount returning or time taken to return and if over a threshold, alarm. Those do indeed seem impossible to defeat.
if I were to enter into the FOV of the light, trigger it stand facing it until it went out, then turned my side to it, it should be triggered again. So, by this thinking, if I walk through the FOV while maintaing the exact same angle of my body to the lens, then it should not go off, atleast it shouldn't in one-photocelled devices. Anybody else think this makes sense at all? Or have a better explanation why it wouldn't?
Lamer than Lame |
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Hobo
location:
UK
Gender: Male
| | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 28 on 5/2/2003 9:07 AM >
| | | | how about modifying a flashlight to use IR LEDs, and adding a dimmer control, and a laser pointer on the side. Then you could attach it to a camera tripod...
With the device off, you can slowly move it into the field of view of the PIR, then aim it at the sensor using the laser pointer. Then, you slowly turn the IR LEDs on with the dimmer (probably very slowly) until there is a very bright IR light shining right into the PIR.
Now I'm guessing this'll put some component in the PIR beond it's operational range where it wont be able to differentiate the input properly, so it won't notice you walking right by it (it's like it's blinded).
Anyone know if this'll work?
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Pyrodesiac
location:
NL, Canada
Gender: Male
TNT can make a dull day fun!
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 29 on 5/2/2003 6:37 PM >
| | | | The simplest way is to cut off it's power supply. How to so that I'll leave up to you. If you really trust your aluminum foil idea, go ahead, it's your life.
Only turkies have left wings.
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon. |
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uem-Tux
Iron Wok Jan
location:
Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
| | | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 30 on 5/4/2003 5:34 AM >
| | | | Don't forget we also have acoustic motion detectors. They use high-frequency sound, and measure the way the sound is reflected back at them, if anything in the room causes the sound reflection to change, they go off.
You can defeat these by moving veeery slowly. An apartment building I often visit has one of these that I defeat regularly. I find smooth, very slow movement to be key. It can help to lie down on your stomach and inch forward.
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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Pyrodesiac
location:
NL, Canada
Gender: Male
TNT can make a dull day fun!
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 31 on 5/4/2003 12:44 PM >
| | | | Okay, there aretwo kinds that use light, we may be talking about different ones. One kind has one device at one end of the area, that emits a laser or infra-red beam. At the other end of the area there is another device that recieves this signal constantly. When something gets between these, it blocks the signal and it goes off. the other kind are the ones in our house, if you have a security signal. The little white boxes up on the walls with the red light on them...
Only turkies have left wings.
Happiness is a belt-fed weapon. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
location:
West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 32 on 5/4/2003 2:04 PM >
| | | | "Little white boxes" -- lets not confuse ourselves here. The most common type of motion detector is the Passive Infra-Red, or PIR.
An Infrared Beam detector shoots a beam between two points. You can find this kind of thing accross the door of automatic garages. These are invisible, and you could maybe see them with a Sony Nightshot camera.
huskies - such fluff. |
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ya t7911
location:
Athens, Georgia, US of A
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 33 on 5/4/2003 6:04 PM >
| | | | No Av... You have to drop a little dust over the beam to see where it is, like in the movies. Come on...
Do motion detectors have blind spots? On the sides or underneath?
t7911.
there are many paths to the mountain.
http://www.yellowalbert.net
urban exploration of georgia and the southeast US |
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Rcon
| | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 34 on 5/4/2003 8:31 PM >
| | | | WOW way to scientific for me...But this makes me think of diving suits.They are designed to give off no heat at all (for the deeper dives) I would try getting a hold of the thickest full body suit u can and try it (bring LOTS of water bottles ..Could work youll never know..also try a drysuit (fullboady deal nothing even touches the water yur 'dry')...also some of u guys should look into splinter cell. The game basically teaches u to pick locks sneek around do amazing stunts and be stealthy about it. I dont know what suit sam fisher wears ingame but ill look into it. ill also try and test my dive suit idea but right now i dont have one. after this ill try and read all the science stuff on infa red too.
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Jester
location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 35 on 5/4/2003 8:33 PM >
| | | | the other problem is knowing exactly which type you are facing at any particular place... without that knowledge, you're pretty well screwed...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Rcon
| | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 36 on 5/4/2003 8:56 PM >
| | | | Well i just went through the whole post..I think I know a way to mess them up. Refering to my brothers laser books fog can reallllllllly mess up a laser like reallly it would need to be thick and lots of it...I dont know if this would work for 'UE' though maybe for an international jewel thief im gonna try this, my divesuit idea, and the flashlight with IR dimmers and a laser pointer...The only 3 priblems being A i dont still have any of my dive suits B i dont have a fog machine C i dont have a motion detector or PIR D i dont have IR, dimmers,or a laser pointer but hey i have a laser that runs offa 4 wall sockets will burn a hole in your buisness card!
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
location:
West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 37 on 5/4/2003 10:06 PM >
| | | | Look, guys, 99% of the "beam" type sensors are NOT lasers, they are INFRARED. Lasers are very expensive, and not as good as IR because the beam is visible. They only use them in movies because they look cool (and so you can see the beam).
There is no way to see an infra-red beam with your naked eye, you need something like a camera to do it.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Jester
location:
Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 38 on 5/4/2003 10:14 PM >
| | | | exactly.
nightvision goggles/binocs/ or cameras (lcd screen) sensitive to IR will allow you to see the IR being emmitted.
but, if it was a simple matter to get around thses devices, criminals would be running rampant avoiding the detectors and ripping everyone off to a spectacular degree...
so I have my doubts about a reliable way to defeat such devices...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Shane
Moderator
location:
Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | |  | | | Re: defeating passive motion detectors
<Reply # 39 on 5/4/2003 10:56 PM >
| | | | The guy from Splinter Cell wears a suit that doesnt exist. It's basically a future projection of a current navy seal suit. I'm not sure what current suit it's based on, but his does alot of interesting stuff, like it maintains a pretty much constant temperature and I think it may even serve as armor (I don't recall). Anyways, thet point is that it doesn't exist yet, but there are similar things out there.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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