 |
|
|
UER Store
|
|
order your copy of Access All Areas today!
|
|
|
|
Activity
|
|
854 online
Server Time:
2024-05-13 20:59:44
|
|
|
 YoelT
      
Location: Viet Nam
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
< on 12/9/2011 6:47 PM >
|  | | | Greenpeace, always a step a ahead of UE.. maybe?
| Greenpeace activists secretly entered a French nuclear site before dawn and draped a banner reading "Coucou" and "Facile", (meaning "Hey" and "Easy") on its reactor containment building, to expose the vulnerability of atomic sites in the country. |
Article on Al Jazeera via Gizmodo.
| Police, whom the environmental activist group immediately told of the publicity stunt, took several hours to round up nine intruders who had broken into the power plant in Nogent-sur-Seine, |
If it was that easy to get in and out.. and they didn't get arrested until they told the police about it! Imagine how easy it would be to do it if you made an effort to keep anyone from knowing about it. Discuss.
www.yoeltaom.as |
|
TeePER
Location: Burlington, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 1 on 12/9/2011 8:31 PM >
| | | | Wow. Not every day you hear about such a high-profile stunt. Next time I'm in a nuclear containment building, I'm totally going to hang a sign.
|
|
MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 2 on 12/9/2011 9:12 PM >
| | | | The difference between on a building and in a building can be pretty significant.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
|
Beens
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 3 on 12/9/2011 11:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by MindHacker
The difference between on a building and in a building can be pretty significant.
|
yes but to those so inclined, JUST outside the building could be close enough to destabilize the reactor. and then uh oh.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beenerman/ |
|
uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 4 on 12/9/2011 11:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by Beens
JUST outside the building could be close enough to destabilize the reactor.
|
It really couldn't.
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
|
|
AnAppleSnail
Location: Charlotte, NC
Gender: Male
ALL the flashlights!
| |  | | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 5 on 12/10/2011 1:28 AM >
|  | | | Posted by Beens
yes but to those so inclined, JUST outside the building could be close enough to destabilize the reactor. and then uh oh.
|
[citation needed]
I'm with mindhacker. If you laid siege or had bulk explosives maybe.
Achievement Unlocked
|
|
Captain_Slow
The infamous Buttram Manfist
Location: Dallas, Tx
Gender: Male
Obviously capable of mediocre things.
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 6 on 12/10/2011 2:59 AM >
| | | | I don't think this is really that big of a feat. Anyone can slap on a hard hat and cruise through the front gates in a Fiat Panda without generating attention, even if you're climbing up staircases or dicking about on the roof. Places like powerplants have armies of contractors and subcontractors working on them at all times, and security doesn't really tighten up until you try to go inside.
|
|
Beens
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 7 on 12/10/2011 10:29 AM >
| | | | Wherever you are, backpack(s) full of explosives could do some serious damage or at least take it off the power grid for a period of time. If you were to target the containment building, substations, backup generators, etc. Point is it should really be better protected.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beenerman/ |
|
Narf
And they rise in waves before you, and the force opens your eyes
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 8 on 12/10/2011 12:26 PM >
| | | | Posted by Beens
Wherever you are, backpack(s) full of explosives could do some serious damage or at least take it off the power grid for a period of time. If you were to target the containment building, substations, backup generators, etc. Point is it should really be better protected.
|
When you can sneak those inside the building, I'll worry.
Targeting the containment building would be laughable, considering it would require something heavier than a ww2 tallboy to penetrate in any measure. The amount of metal you'd have to sling in with you in backpacks just to direct enough force to make a crack would be prohibitive.
Taking out substations is only annoying, they are deliberately giant, simple pieces of metal and insulation, specifically because the grid slowly destroys them anyways. You cause maybe, at worst, a day outage, as there will be PLENTY of replacement parts (including lines, rigging, and even tools) nearby.
Backup generators, good luck. Take a long, hard look at the placement of backup generators at a nuclear facility. The same reason you wouldn't have a chance in hell of destroying them, is the same reason Fukushima lost power; they are in deliberately misleading and inaccessible areas if you hadn't an idea what you were doing. In Fukushima's instance, the basement. Fukushima required a top tier earthquake and an extremely large tsunami to collapse as it has. The singular instance where an explosion caused a massive nuclear problem, was Chernobyl, and that was from the inside where its easier to do these things.
Of course, knocking out generators won't work in total either, as some of these NPP's in France have been retroactively fitted or came with gravity cooling or natural steam circulating cooling systems, sufficient enough to cool the reactor for a period of time to respond, or theoretically to a cold shutdown. There are other reasons, such as land lines, site kept minimal power units, and even the use of bulk poisons in worst cases.
Fuel source might be external, but you better know what you're breaching, else you hit a waste water tank for the secondary cooling system (the one that is never in direct contact with the primary, radioactive loop, that is totally contained within containment building) and do absolutely nothing.
Also, if you proceed to do that, you will again need to pop the backup tanks within the containment building, which are there, specifically, for attacks like this.
Understand something Green Peace does not: European countries intentionally designed their NPP's to take conventional, glancing (sometimes near direct) nuclear attack, including airstrike. They were the front line of a war that hasn't happened. Unlike Russia, they cared enough to over-engineer them. In some cases, this means designed to contain, not designed to continue to function, but none-the-less these scenarios make your backpack look awfully inadequate.
Green peace has done nothing but get arrested after posting what might as well be a large banner of smeared feces on a beautiful building. Bravo. Wish they'd all turn themselves in after doing something utterly useless but illegal.
|
|
\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 9 on 12/10/2011 2:03 PM >
| | | | And all power plants, once fully setup, only require a half dozen people to operate. It's all fully automated with computers. Nuclear plants requires less workers than fossil fuel plants. All have at least some security, and are required to report any intrusions to DHS. Recreational trespassers will probably get what is referred to a "non-incident" report. I've had three "non-incidents" filed with homeland over various things I've done. 
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
|
MKE_MFGng
Location: The Cream City; Mill-Town; Beer Capital, USA; Milwaukee
Gender: Male
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 11 on 12/10/2011 7:47 PM >
| | | | Narf sure ended the security argument. Very well said my friend, knowledge is power.
Dude's got the knack! |
|
Ghostofthelens
Location: Pearland, Tx.
Gender: Male
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 13 on 12/11/2011 11:17 AM >
| | | | | Narf sure ended the security argument. Very well said my friend, knowledge is power. |
I tend to disagree. There is an external and slightly easier internal part of these plants that could be hit. The Primary waster coolant would be nearly impossible due to what Narf said. But the secondary and external lines could be hit a lot easier. The secondary lines are what actually turn the generators after being heated by the primary lines which run at 600 degrees, and are highly protected by the containment. The Secondary lines do run inside the structure, but run outside the containment, thus an explosion could damage the lines, and stop the cooling of the primary lines. This would cause an over heating of the primary coolant and thus over heat the core. The external lines are what cause the steam from the secondary lines to cool down back to water to be reused. These lines could be hit, and cause the steam to slow down in reverting, and thus less water back to the primary lines, and less heat removed from them, and less heat from the core removed.
The fact is, that if someone that actually meant to cause a threat got in there, it is not hard to cause a chain reaction back to the core. A little more knowledge than we have, but with countries like Libya and Iran helping many Terror groups, this would not to happen.
Futurus partum par fabrica |
|
MKE_MFGng
Location: The Cream City; Mill-Town; Beer Capital, USA; Milwaukee
Gender: Male
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 14 on 12/11/2011 4:42 PM >
| | | | Your point is null, yes you could possibly blow up the secondary lines, but those are secondary and not all that close to the center of the nuclear process. So even if you did blow the secondary lines up, the electronic monitoring systems and the nuclear plant operators would be so fast to jump on shutting the nuclear reactors down that it wouldn't cause any reactor overheating or china syndrome because there would still be enough cooling liquid to sufficiently cool the reactors down. Besides that, most nuclear power stations are located near a large body of water where they can, in an emergency, pump large quantities of water into the reactor to cool it as well. I still stand by Narf's point, that nuclear plant security is tight enough to the point that no person could easily get into areas of the nuclear reactor where they could do significant damage.
The main point of all of this discussion is: yes you can get onto the plant property if you really try at it, but getting into the building itself, and more secure areas within the building is almost completely impossible to do.
[last edit 12/11/2011 4:47 PM by MKE_MFGng - edited 1 times]
Dude's got the knack! |
|
Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 15 on 12/11/2011 8:24 PM >
| | | | i'd just like to point out we are debating FRENCH security, did we really expect it to be all that good? as for explosives messin with one of the main silos,at least in the US they are designed to take a fully fueled 747 flying into it, you better have a fuckin MOAB to bust through those, and i had an opportunity to watch the security do a full on training scenario where terrorists attack one of the nuclear power plants here. They had the FBI and local and state swat teams in on it and used simmunitions. I gotta say that the security at least out here are pretty damn good
[last edit 12/11/2011 8:25 PM by Fl1k3r - edited 1 times]
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
|
|
uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 16 on 12/11/2011 8:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by Fl1k3r
i'd just like to point out we are debating FRENCH security, did we really expect it to be all that good?
|
Yay unfounded stereotypes.
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
|
|
MKE_MFGng
Location: The Cream City; Mill-Town; Beer Capital, USA; Milwaukee
Gender: Male
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 17 on 12/11/2011 9:10 PM >
| | | | We'll I forgot to take into account we're talking about a FRENCH nuclear plant. I heard they use a resilient baguette byproduct in place of traditional concrete for the containment silos.
http://www.youtube...atch?v=-RkGROpgSe0
Dude's got the knack! |
|
Narf
And they rise in waves before you, and the force opens your eyes
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 18 on 12/12/2011 1:26 AM >
| | | | Posted by Ghostofthelens
I tend to disagree. There is an external and slightly easier internal part of these plants that could be hit. The Primary waster coolant would be nearly impossible due to what Narf said. But the secondary and external lines could be hit a lot easier. The secondary lines are what actually turn the generators after being heated by the primary lines which run at 600 degrees, and are highly protected by the containment. The Secondary lines do run inside the structure, but run outside the containment, thus an explosion could damage the lines, and stop the cooling of the primary lines. This would cause an over heating of the primary coolant and thus over heat the core. The external lines are what cause the steam from the secondary lines to cool down back to water to be reused. These lines could be hit, and cause the steam to slow down in reverting, and thus less water back to the primary lines, and less heat removed from them, and less heat from the core removed.
The fact is, that if someone that actually meant to cause a threat got in there, it is not hard to cause a chain reaction back to the core. A little more knowledge than we have, but with countries like Libya and Iran helping many Terror groups, this would not to happen.
|
Worst you could do is kick in one of the redundant ECCS systems in attacking the secondary loops. ECCS is also powered by the diesels, and has battery backup. You'd have to slice the outside lines, which as we've established, wouldn't be hard... but you'd also somehow have to make it in the buildings themselves to sever the secondary lines... and not just one, there are bypasses on top of bypasses. Also, you'd then have to find and disable the generators themselves to get anything done. HIGHLY coordinated for terrorists, though these things were designed to stop or at least slow down people who knew what they were doing. Intentionally designed to allow response, be that military or emergency.
Having done all that, you still have time until the reactor might melt, and even if it were to... dozens of feet of concrete below it designed to handle twice the core's mass in corium. Understand that entering the wrong doors causes a SCRAM, so it would be cooling as you were walking into rooms to blast bits off it, and the more you disable, the more the core is designed pull systems in towards it to contain itself.
Worth noting nearly everything in a western NPP has a redundancy, again, in intentionally misleading and confusing places. You'd also still need to get within the plant itself to do any real damage to these systems, and you'd need more than one person. Possible, yes, but with nothing less than trained sappers and brute force (as was intended.)
Apparently, the easiest way to take out an NPP is operator error and a 9.0 earthquake with a tsunami. Fukushima, even with all that, is still far more complex than that explanation or the assumption most people seem to get about its design specs.
|
|
Narf
And they rise in waves before you, and the force opens your eyes
| | Re: Penetrated: Active French nuclear plant .. by Greenpeace
<Reply # 19 on 12/12/2011 1:28 AM >
| | | | Posted by MKE_MFGng
Your point is null, yes you could possibly blow up the secondary lines, but those are secondary and not all that close to the center of the nuclear process. So even if you did blow the secondary lines up, the electronic monitoring systems and the nuclear plant operators would be so fast to jump on shutting the nuclear reactors down that it wouldn't cause any reactor overheating or china syndrome because there would still be enough cooling liquid to sufficiently cool the reactors down. Besides that, most nuclear power stations are located near a large body of water where they can, in an emergency, pump large quantities of water into the reactor to cool it as well. I still stand by Narf's point, that nuclear plant security is tight enough to the point that no person could easily get into areas of the nuclear reactor where they could do significant damage.
The main point of all of this discussion is: yes you can get onto the plant property if you really try at it, but getting into the building itself, and more secure areas within the building is almost completely impossible to do.
|
I thank you. Good show.
If not for being so compulsive and passionate about this subject, I would have simply let this response talk for me haha
|
|
|
|
All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire.
To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site:
UER CONTACT
View Terms of Service |
View Privacy Policy |
Server colocation provided by Beanfield
This page was generated for you in 203 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 741599671 pages have been generated.
|
|
