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 Ninjalicious
    
Gone, but always with us
Location: Toronto
 |  |  | Re: Mike Dijital Banned
<Reply # 40 on 5/11/2004 5:44 PM >
|  | | | Sorry to deviate from the mob mentality, but just to repeat what I've been saying on the moderators' board, I object to this banning.
The rule Av quoted in the first message in this thread referred only to people discussing crimes on UER, which Mike never did. Mike hasn't broken any UER rule. Nor has he been given any chance to explain or defend himself. For all people here know, someone could be framing Mike. It's happened before.
While I totally disagree with taking (let alone selling) any items from a site -- even one on the verge of demolition, such as Danvers -- I think Av's insinuation that Mike is only 'posing' as an explorer is totally unjustified. Mike goes out constantly and obviously loves the hobby. His ethics aren't my ethics and his style isn't my style, but I think he really is an explorer.
Anyhow, I think it's a real shame that no one even wanted to hear what the guy had to say about the whole thing. Even when I'm incredibly pissed off at someone I still want to hear their point of view.
Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org
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ASC Jake
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
Proudly a founding member of The Little Lebowski Urban Achievers
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Banned
<Reply # 41 on 5/11/2004 5:47 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Jester
Yeah, whatever happened to just forming an angry mob and dealing with things like that ?
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I was wondering the same thing, now with police swarming about, wouldn't that make it more difficult for the legit UE in the area?
"I doubt the bus driver knew the difference considering her primary research source was Mel Gibson."
-Servo |
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Crossfire
 
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| |  |  | | Re: Mike Dijital Banned
<Reply # 42 on 5/11/2004 5:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by Ninjalicious
Anyhow, I think it's a real shame that no one even wanted to hear what the guy had to say about the whole thing.
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I think we all know what he would say about the whole thing. First, he'd call everyone who agreed with the ban an asshole, then he'd tell us we're all a bunch of assholes for getting up in his business, then he'd say that there's nothing wrong with what he's doing because the place was going to get torn down anyhow.
I understand that he didn't break any forum rules, but with the amount of media attention that urban exploration has been getting does UER really want to be associated with an individual who's doing what Mike has been doing?
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Frost
Location: K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Banned
<Reply # 43 on 5/11/2004 5:53 PM >
| | | | Posted by Ninjalicious
Sorry to deviate from the mob mentality, but just to repeat what I've been saying on the moderators' board, I object to this banning.
The rule Av quoted in the first message in this thread referred only to people discussing crimes on UER, which Mike never did. Mike hasn't broken any UER rule. Nor has he been given any chance to explain or defend himself. For all people here know, someone could be framing Mike. It's happened before.
While I totally disagree with taking (let alone selling) any items from a site -- even one on the verge of demolition, such as Danvers -- I think Av's insinuation that Mike is only 'posing' as an explorer is totally unjustified. Mike goes out constantly and obviously loves the hobby. His ethics aren't my ethics and his style isn't my style, but I think he really is an explorer.
Anyhow, I think it's a real shame that no one even wanted to hear what the guy had to say about the whole thing. Even when I'm incredibly pissed off at someone I still want to hear their point of view.
Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org
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Y'know as much as I'm pissed that he did something like this... I'd have to say I agree with Ninj here (guess his argument changed my view.... although if mike did this he's still a prick for it)... but I agree that we should see something from MD's P.o.V
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Banned
<Reply # 44 on 5/11/2004 5:53 PM >
| | | | After discussing with others, I realized I should not have banned mike. He has not broken any specific UER rule. He has been unbanned. It doesn't change that what he did/does is wrong, but he should be able to defend himself here.
huskies - such fluff. |
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xrahy
Noble Donor
| | Re: Mike Dijital Banned
<Reply # 45 on 5/11/2004 5:55 PM >
| | | | Thank you, Ninjalicious, for being the voice of reason. It is disturbing to see someone accused, tried, convicted and sentenced here on the boards within a few hour time span. Banning someone from the forums is OK, if that's the way you feel. Calling the cops on someone over a couple of hundred dollars of items sold on ebay is another matter altogether, you could ruin their life just to make you feel more righteous about your hobby, and that in my opinion sucks.
[last edit 5/11/2004 6:18 PM by xrahy - edited 1 times]
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 46 on 5/11/2004 5:56 PM >
| | | | Oh what the hell, I'll change my mind, too.
Good for you for unbanning Mike, Av!
Disgruntled. |
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TFW Willie
Location: TX
Gender: Male
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati (when all else fails, PLAY DEAD)
| |  | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 47 on 5/11/2004 5:57 PM >
|  | | | He screwed up.
| For all people here know, someone could be framing Mike. |
I think it would be difficult to fake an ID on ebay with someone's name and addy. His ebay ID is the same as his now banned name and he states that he is located in Danvers, Mass.
I've seen a lot of very valuable stuff laying around as has everyone else. I leave it for the next guy to decide whether or not he's gonna do the same.
Most of the pictures I take are in my mind and I try not to leave any tracks. If I can't get in by going under, over or through an open passage, I don't go.
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White Rabbit
Women's Advocate
Location: Missouri
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 48 on 5/11/2004 6:08 PM >
| | | | You know, banning Mike to protect our community is one thing, but calling the cops is a whole other thing. I never take anything from a site, even little things. I just don't believe in it. However...
Mike took some things from a place that's going to be demolished this summer and sold them. Is it wrong to sell things that don't belong to you? Of course. But I don't see how his theft is any worse than people who take little things, that also don't belong to them, for selfish personal reasons. Just because he did it for greed and the others do it for nostalgia, that makes it better? Not to me. Stealing is stealing. Granted, selling stolen items is an extra black mark on top of that stealing, but it's still stuff that would have been destroyed this summer.
And for another thing, sure, it would've been better to give those things to a museum or historical society. But there's also a good chance no one would've wanted them. So, the way I look at it, even though it was unethical and wrong, there's going to be a few more Danvers artifacts surviving the demolition because of Mike. The fact that Mike also only put Danvers items on eBay, when he explores lots of other places, says that he also probably would never have done this if Danvers wasn't about to be demolished.
I'd even venture to say that breaking windows and spraypainting sites is worse than what Mike did in this case, and when's the last time someone turned anyone in from the forum for that? So, yeah, I think calling the cops and causing Mike to probably have a felony record for the rest of his life is way, way, way over the top. He doesn't deserve that.
--WR
[last edit 5/11/2004 6:11 PM by White Rabbit - edited 1 times]
Underground Ozarks http://www.undergroundozarks.com
Missouri, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Kansas |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 49 on 5/11/2004 6:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by WRabbit
So, yeah, I think calling the cops and causing Mike to probably have a felony record for the rest of his life is way, way, way over the top.
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Yeah, I gotta say that was a little much, too. Maybe contact Ebay and have his active auctions closed, but the cops? Ehhhh... too extreme. Unfortunately it's too late for that now.
I just wish those things had been kept by Mike, given to a historical society, archive, or museum.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 50 on 5/11/2004 6:15 PM >
| | | | Who's to say Mike didn't obtain all these things legally? Sure it looks suspicious as hell, but is it so hard to imagine he somehow had the owner's permission to get some of these things? If the place is going to be plowed over anyway, I don't see the owner really caring much.
Anyway, I'm glad to see the ban is lifted, and look forward to seeing Mike's reaction/reply.
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Frost
Location: K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 51 on 5/11/2004 6:21 PM >
| | | | Well considering that BPM already called the cops, I'm not sure we'll actually hear from Mike again......
If they are on their way, he's done for...
Too bad Danvers is getting flattened, guess I will be taking a trip there sometime this summer before they do it.
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 52 on 5/11/2004 6:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
Who's to say Mike didn't obtain all these things legally? Sure it looks suspicious as hell, but is it so hard to imagine he somehow had the owner's permission to get some of these things? If the place is going to be plowed over anyway, I don't see the owner really caring much. |
If this is the case, then we were wrong and will owe him a pretty big apology. If it's all legit and he had permission, then he has nothing to fear.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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King Pie
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 53 on 5/11/2004 6:53 PM >
| | | | So you all jumped the gun accusing mike and now your all sorry. I don't know the guy, but cops is extreme in any case and at most a last resort, although I would like to think it isnt one at all... how would you like it if someone called the cops on you because they found you on the board and decided you were a tresspasser?
Ninj, you really hold some sway, one word from you and nobody wants to be on the opposite side of the fence.
[last edit 5/11/2004 6:54 PM by King Pie - edited 1 times]
Chained at the ankles, bound at the wrists
Stuffed into mail-sacks and tossed into drifts |
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kowalski
| | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 54 on 5/11/2004 6:53 PM >
| | | | I suspect his reaction will be "Thank you to FUCK for getting me charged with felony theft. Bye."
The chickenfrenzy mentality that was present here earlier was utterly inexcusable. The people here who called police on this guy should be the ones being banned. Their judisprudential lynching of him demonstrates a profound disrespect for the community and its members. You people were no better than a security guard or building owner or police officer pulling a power trip on an explorer caught trespassing (see for instance Lone_Ranger's story a few months ago about being caught in a sugar refinery).
Here's a wake-up call: WE ALL BREAK THE LAW. Yeah, we trespass. In some jurisdictions, that act of trespass can be a felony. A number of people on these forums, like it or not, do damage doors, windows and structures to permit entry. In many places, the act of trespassing within a structure is itself considered B&E, or at least the state is capable of making that argument.
If Mike Dijital took these items from Danvers and sold them on ebay, I don't respect him for it. It's a lame bit of profiteering that doesn't shine a good light on exploration and the community. That said, what he may have done was fairly marginal and wronged nobody. It certainly didn't wrong any of the people that went out of their way to hand his head to local law enforcement on a silver platter.
People on these forums do things that we respect that would be considered felonies. Jester and the Wraiths have explored an oil refinery on several occasions, an act which, if the state wanted to (and on this note they're lucky to be in Canada), could be conflated into several potential felonies, regardless of intent. A certain group of explorers down in Florida had the forums enraptured a few months ago with mysterious talk of cutting into a structure to gain access to something of tremendous interest. That's called Break and Enter, kids, and I can imagine the state could try to hit them with a few other things given what is apparently inside. Why weren't you calling local and state law enforcement in FL warning them of the dastardly plot being hatched? Freak has admitted to salvaging things from the places he explores in Alaska, and while many people have disagreed with his doing this, nobody has tried to get him arrested for it.
What was done here today was cavalier and reckless, and has likely ruined the year of someone who regularly participated on these forums. I suspect your actions had more to do with personal grudges and a desire to exercise power over another person than out of any real interest in law and order and the integrity of the Danvers site.
Regardless of whether Mike actually stole these things, what you have done today is a stain on this community, a stain on all of us. There was already little enough reason to trust anyone here; today has demonstrated just how gleefully juvenile and disrespectful of other people's autonomy many people here, Avatar-X included, are.
I don't condone what Mike may have done, but what you people have done to him is shocking and doesn't bode well for the integrity and health of this community.
[last edit 5/11/2004 6:54 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]
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Frost
Location: K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 55 on 5/11/2004 7:03 PM >
| | | | Wow, well I feel like a shit (good thing I didn't actually call the cops hehe... ) talk about jumping on the band wagon eh?
Well I never called the cops, but I did accuse and freak like everyone. And well I hate to admit I was wrong, but apparently, I was.
See where were you straight thinking people a few hours ago hehe?
Not saying I condone what he did (if he did in fact *steal* these things) -- but Kowalski is right, we've all done things wrong, in fact we all trespass on a regular basis, which in turn is breaking the law. What if someone saw you entering a place and called the cops... you'd be pretty pissed too right... hmmm
interesting... well I'm issuing an apology now, because I feel I may have been in the wrong. Sorry.
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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Trinity
Location: Newmarket,Ontario
Gender: Female
| | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 56 on 5/11/2004 7:09 PM >
| | | | I also feel I was wrong. I just wanted to say sorry, I shouldn't pass judgement until I have heard both sides, there could be more to it.
[last edit 5/11/2004 7:10 PM by Trinity - edited 1 times]
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Control
Location: NYC, All day every day.
Because it's expected
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 57 on 5/11/2004 7:09 PM >
| | | | Extending a bit on what kowalski just said:
Clearly selling stuff like that so blatantly on Ebay is wrong, but I do want to ask this quick simple question: If everyone were to find out (for example), that someone like Max Action, or Ninj or Julia Solis or Sean O'Boyle or some sorta someone who's better known and respected in the the UE world was guilty of selling stuff they took from some abandoned location, would they too be tried and convicted before they even had their morning coffee?
The Zoo York Goon Squad.
If it looks good, Loot it. |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 58 on 5/11/2004 7:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
I don't condone what Mike may have done, but what you people have done to him is shocking and doesn't bode well for the integrity and health of this community.
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Hold on a second there, Kowalski. A lot of people expressed their dislike, not only for Mike, but for what he apparently has done. Other than one or two forum members, nobody actually did anything else other than express their opinions, myself included.
A blanket statement like this ("what you people have done to him is shocking") incorrectly points the finger at a lot of people who did nothing but express their anger at the situation. One person called the cops. As far as I know, one person contacted Ebay.
I, for one, am not apologizing for my reaction to what has apparently happened until I am given proof that it was not what it appears to be.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Capone
Location: London, Ontario
Gender: Male
UEL
| | | Re: Mike Dijital Selling Stolen Goods from UE Sites for Profit
<Reply # 59 on 5/11/2004 7:17 PM >
| | | | I'll jumo on Ninj's bandwagon here (although it is my actual opinion as well  ) and say that while I wholeheartedly disagree with what he did, I'd still like to see his reply to all this.
If he obtained items legally, then the cops will be able to determine that. I do think calling the cops right away was a bit extreme, (if it was me I would have at least emailed him first to see if he got the items legally and what his side of the story was) but in any case it's that kind of shit that gives a bad name to all UEers.
So there I was, in this creepy old hallway... |
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