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 Fl1k3r
 
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 40 on 8/13/2011 7:19 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Aleksandar
That is not at all true. Glocks are very well made guns and certainly are not cheap. I guess someone might assume its plastic and composite furniture might mean its not the same quality as something with all metal furniture, but that is not the case. Glock's selection of materials is an intentional design choice and fits perfectly with the design philosophy of the weapon, which is oriented around its role.
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+1 i've fired Glocks on numerous occasions and i've found them to be one of my favorite guns, definitely better than most Sig Sauers and the M9 by far
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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JediMindTrixR4Kidz
Location: Buffalo
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 41 on 8/13/2011 7:33 PM >
| | | | lol to ripping on glock quality! =p
I usually have my buck knife in its good leather holster on my belt, and my big maglight beaten' stick either in my hand, or in my deep back pocket secured by sticking through my belt. Been meaning to pick up some pepper spray.
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Aleksandar
  
Location: United States
Gender: Male
your darkest shadow, my oldest friend; the world's become ashes, this is the end.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 42 on 8/13/2011 7:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by Fl1k3r
+1 i've fired Glocks on numerous occasions and i've found them to be one of my favorite guns
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Police, military and paramilitary forces the world over, agree with you absolutely  the glock line of guns are some of the best lightweight sidearms on the market, with a well deserved reputation for reliability and quality.
Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom. |
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Tvox5K
 
Location: Pleasanton, CA (East bay)
Gender: Male
Exploring the man made frontier
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 43 on 8/13/2011 7:44 PM >
| | | | If it shoots straight and doesn't jam up all the time then I could care less...
Being a minor I would be screwed if I were caught with anything more than a pocket knife. That being said I carry a small folding knife, and wouldnt imagine using it for anything more than cutting myself loose if I get caught on a fence and cant get off.
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Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 44 on 8/13/2011 7:56 PM >
| | | | Posted by Aleksandar
Police, military and paramilitary forces the world over, agree with you absolutely the glock line of guns are some of the best lightweight sidearms on the market, with a well deserved reputation for reliability and quality.
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definitely, the good old 1911 is great but it's far heavier and not enough rounds per magazine, which is why i'd prefer a Glock
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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phractal
Location: freeland, WA
Gender: Male
I think therefore I'll tell you what I think.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 45 on 8/13/2011 8:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by Fl1k3r
definitely, the good old 1911 is great but it's far heavier and not enough rounds per magazine, which is why i'd prefer a Glock
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My Llama Max 1 is a 1911 copy and I think it weighs in around 32 ounces, where as my Glock 22 weighs 22.23 ounces. That said, I prefer my Llama. It fits my hand better, lays flatter on my side and fires the .45 acp. The weight is a good thing in my opinion because anything lighter in a .45 is gonna be hard to control. (Anyone remember the Simmerling LM4?)
I like the capacity of the Glock and the .40s nothing to laugh at but It's harder to conceal and the compensator fucks with my night vision. Also, I find that when cqb point shooting from the chest, the gasses escaping from the top of the Glock burn my face.
The Llama 1911 clones are single action auto and the safeties allow me to carry code 1, 2, and 3. The 1911s have a nicer trigger pull than the Glocks and That means a lot to me.
I like Glocks but I'll stick with my Llama for carry.
Where'd my oh there it is go?...damn.
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Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 46 on 8/13/2011 9:14 PM >
| | | | never fired a Llama so i honestly couldn't tell you which i'd like better, sounds like a pretty good gun though, whats the bbl on it though?
[last edit 8/13/2011 9:15 PM by Fl1k3r - edited 2 times]
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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phractal
Location: freeland, WA
Gender: Male
I think therefore I'll tell you what I think.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 47 on 8/13/2011 9:43 PM >
| | | | My Max 1 has a 4.25" barrel. They made a larger version which I could have bought that was the same length as the Colt government model but I wanted the more compact piece.
Llama is a very high quality Colt clone, right up there with Para ordinance. Llama didn't want to buy the patents when they started making Colt clones so they had to make very minor changes to the design. For example, the grip screws are slightly closer together than they would be on a Colt, so many after market Colt grips won't fit on them. I bought 2 Colt 8 rnd mags for my Llama and they fit just fine. My Llama uses a series 80 style barrel bushing with a 2 piece recoil spring guide but I could easily swap it out for a later Colt commander sized solid rod.
The only thing I did to mine was file down the feed ramps so it fed smoother. The 230 gr. hardballs fed great from the beginning but the 185 gr. hydra shoks made a few FTL jams. After the slight mod, I could shoot anything I wanted.
Where'd my oh there it is go?...damn.
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Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 48 on 8/13/2011 9:48 PM >
| | | | nice! sounds like a pretty good ccw piece then actually, one i've always been curious about is the FN Five SeveN, with the 5.7mm ammo i've wondered if it would be decent at close range self defense
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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phractal
Location: freeland, WA
Gender: Male
I think therefore I'll tell you what I think.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 49 on 8/14/2011 12:04 AM >
| | | | I have several issues with the 5.7 as a defense round. First you're talking about a round about the size of a .22 hornet weighing in at 31 gr. at most. With a muzzle velocity around 2300 fps, It's on par with the speeds from a .223 but lighter. ( the .223, or 5.56 weighing in at 55 gr.) When one considers the TKO factor from a .45 is just above 12.5 and the TKO from a 5.7mm is 2.5, one would imagine the impact from a 5.7 round would be a quick "through and through" without any knock down power.
To factor the TKO, (Taylor knock out system) one multiplies the bullet diameter in calibre by the bullet weight in grains and then by the fps., and then divides that # by 7000.
So if a 9mm is roughly .38 calibre, weighing in at 115 gr. and traveling at 1100 fps, the TKO is 6.84. Thus, a .45 has almost twice the knock down power of a 9mm. (Proven in one shot stop tests over and over again)
My second issue with the 5.7 round is the potential for over penetration. A round that small and that fast is gonna punch a tiny hole through someone and then whoever is behind him, and whoever is behind him and so on. Theres a reason most people wont use a high powered rifle round for home defense. You wouldn't want a round to go through a wall and hit a loved one or innocent bystander.
My third consideration is price. Not only is the round expensive, the platform is expensive. You're talking close to a grand for the piece, where as you could buy a used Glock or Sig for half the price and have way more stopping power.
I don't understand why the 5.7 is so popular, and for that reason, I wouldn't buy one. It's low recoil, sure. So is my 2245, pushing federal 36 gr. hollowpoints or CCI Stingers. But I can buy 550 rnds. of Federals for under $15 and have way more fun.
As a sidearm, I would only recommend buying something that you can shoot relatively cheap yet still has good stopping power. As a home defense weapon, few things beat a pump 12 ga. (I have both a Mossberg 500 persuader and a Remington 870 stainless mariner)
The 5.7s cool because its fast and flat but doesn't seem very useful, to me anyway.
[last edit 8/14/2011 12:12 AM by phractal - edited 1 times]
Where'd my oh there it is go?...damn.
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Aleksandar
Location: United States
Gender: Male
your darkest shadow, my oldest friend; the world's become ashes, this is the end.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 50 on 8/14/2011 12:37 AM >
| | | | Posted by phractal
The 5.7s cool because its fast and flat but doesn't seem very useful, to me anyway.
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I like the idea of the five seven, using the loads that were originally designed for it -- a low recoil high capacity companion sidearm with an exceptional penetration profile. However, as a sporting or personal defense weapon i too see little utility for it, for all the reasons you mention. The sporting round robs it of the 5.7mm's best feature -- penetration in a military context. No real civilian application as far as im concerned, and enjoys popularity solely by association with its bigger brother the p90, and its notoriety as a high capacity compact weapon.
Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom. |
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phractal
Location: freeland, WA
Gender: Male
I think therefore I'll tell you what I think.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 51 on 8/14/2011 12:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by Aleksandar
The sporting round robs it of the 5.7mm's best feature -- penetration in a military context. |
I can buy that, but only in the sense that a wounded man is more trouble for your enemy than a dead man. Personally, I like knowing that when I send it, someone's not getting up. Maybe I'm just too nice like that.
Where'd my oh there it is go?...damn.
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jeepdave
  
Location: Anderson, SC
Gender: Male
It's also a gun.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 52 on 8/18/2011 7:20 PM >
| | | | Glock? Nothing compared to a Hi Point 
I kid, I kid. 
Ezekiel 25:17 |
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Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 53 on 8/18/2011 7:26 PM >
| | | | i see your points, makes sense, i heard that the military was thinking of shifting away from the M9 again as they realized how useless the 9mm round can be, did that stall out or is it still in the works?
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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phractal
Location: freeland, WA
Gender: Male
I think therefore I'll tell you what I think.
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 54 on 8/18/2011 7:48 PM >
| | | | Posted by jeepdave
Glock? Nothing compared to a Hi Point
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I had a friend that bought a hipoint 9mm carbine once. We laughed so hard at him he stormed out of the house and returned it. lol. Bought himself a Star 1911 copy instead.
i see your points, makes sense, i heard that the military was thinking of shifting away from the M9 again as they realized how useless the 9mm round can be, did that stall out or is it still in the works?
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I hadn't heard that but I know many service men and Women have switched over to the M11 (sig 228). U.S. SOCOM adopted the Heckler & Koch Mark 23 Mod 0 .45 caliber system.
The U.S. military had a program from 2005 until Fall 2006 (since suspended indefinitely) to evaluate possible replacements for the M9, now called "Combat Pistol (CP)" (catchy name, huh?).
But the U.S. military shelved it and ordered 70,000 more M9A1s in 2006.
So for the foreseeable future it appears the U.S. military will be sticking with the M9. But should they ever look to replace it, it would be interesting to evaluate what they might replace it with.
[last edit 8/18/2011 7:56 PM by phractal - edited 1 times]
Where'd my oh there it is go?...damn.
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Sentinel
 
Location: Lawrence, KS
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 55 on 8/21/2011 11:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by phractal
To factor the TKO, (Taylor knock out system) one multiplies the bullet diameter in calibre by the bullet weight in grains and then by the fps., and then divides that # by 7000.
So if a 9mm is roughly .38 calibre, weighing in at 115 gr. and traveling at 1100 fps, the TKO is 6.84. Thus, a .45 has almost twice the knock down power of a 9mm. (Proven in one shot stop tests over and over again)
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I'm sorry but these "theories" all read of the conspiracy variety. "Knock down power" ha ha.
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Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 56 on 8/22/2011 3:55 AM >
| | | | yea it would be interesting to see what they change over to, love the M9 for airsoft, hate it in real life.
[last edit 8/22/2011 3:55 AM by Fl1k3r - edited 1 times]
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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Fl1k3r
Gender: Male
| | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 58 on 8/22/2011 6:35 PM >
| | | |
+1
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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Muler
Location: Southeast PA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Weapons
<Reply # 59 on 8/29/2011 6:50 AM >
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I tend to go with shot placement more than knockdown power.
My 9mm is good enough for me , although I am broke and cannot afford to shoot anything bigger, which makes training with anything bigger a no-go.
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