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 DJ Craig
         
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
 |  |  |  | Some troubles with the gloryhole
< on 7/12/2010 11:20 PM >
|  | | | I've got a UE problem that I need some help brainstorming solutions for.
The goal here is to get the blue person over that damn hump so we can climb the 300 ft ladder behind it. FunEli, uLiveAndYouBurn and I have done it before ourselves using the approach depicted in figure 1 with the orange line, but that's an extremely difficult climb. I want to find a way I can get less skilled climbers up there...and a way to get myself up there that doesn't leave me exhausted and sore for the next week. The last time I went, I took a few reasonably fit explorers with me. I didn't expect them to be able to climb over the orange route, but my plan was to climb to the top of the ledge myself, use one of them as a human anchor to rappel down the other side, tie a climbing rope onto the bottom of the ladder, climb back up using the rope and human anchor again to SRT (SRT means ascending a rope using climbing gear), then help the others to SRT the rope that's anchored to the ladder. Someone would have to take turns waiting at the bottom to act as the human anchor.
This plan ended up failing horribly. I got myself over the hump as planned, anchored the rope to the ladder, came back over to my friends, set one of them up with a harness and ascent gear (texas style) and reminded her how to use it (this was only her second time doing SRT). She was fine as long as she was ascending the straight vertical wall at the base of the hump. But as she got to the top, her ascender started to get stuck on the curve of the concrete. Since the concrete has an extremely shallow curve, it becomes extremely difficult to raise or lower the ascender because it catches on the rough concrete with your full body weight. You have to lift the loaded rope up off the concrete a few inches in order to slide the ascender. She just didn't have the upper body strength to do this. Not because she was weak; I've since done it myself and I can just barely do it. She ended up getting stuck, unable to climb further, downclimb, or release the ascenders to do the changeover to rappel. I ended up having to do a complicated pick-off rescue to get her down and it took many hours. By the time we got her down, it was very late at night and we were all ready to go home.
I'm trying to find some way that I can make this place easier to explore. I've thought about installing a permanent rope ladder, but the rope ladder would have about the same issues as the ascender; it would be forced up against the rounded concrete so it would be hard to hold on to. It might be doable for a skilled climber, but it wouldn't be easy and failure could be catastrophic; that fall is plenty high enough to break a leg, and it would be very hard to get help in this remote location.
To add to the difficulty of this, the location is an hour and a half hike through the woods and across difficult terrain, and once you get to the entrance you have to ride an inflatable boat to get in. So carrying a full sized ladder, or anything else big and heavy in there is out of the question. Also, I don't want to drill any anchors into the hump because I suspect that it holds a large active pipe that could contain very high pressures.
This is SO FRUSTRATING because it seems like such a simple problem but after 4 trips I'm still completely stumped. Keep in mind, we've already gotten over the hump ourselves. It's just a matter of trying to make this easier so I can get other people over it. Right now it is extremely difficult.
Anyone have any ideas?
Here's the thread about the location with more details about the place and some video of our current approach:
http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=80260
(photo by AnAppleSnail)
This photo shows basically the same view as figure 1.
(photo by uLiveAndYouBurn)
This photo is taken from on top of the hump. You can see the rope going down to the bottom of the ladder.
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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aurelie
Location: pacific northwest
Gender: Female
high tech:: low life.
| | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 1 on 7/13/2010 12:03 AM >
| | | | Go at night and go through the intake towers?
edit: also, a long-ass rope ladder anchored at the bottom of the other ladder?
Make a separate trip with the boat with a full sized ladder. It isn't that difficult of terrain if you have multiple people carrying it.
That or lower a ladder down through the spillway (lower down from observation platform to person standing below, then lower down into gloryhole to person standing in gloryhole).
[last edit 7/13/2010 12:10 AM by aurelie - edited 2 times]
reckless thoughts abide; anachronistic and impulsive.
loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing. |
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DJ Craig
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 2 on 7/13/2010 12:06 AM >
| | | | Posted by aurelie
Go at night and go through the intake towers?
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I've tried. That entrance is well sealed.
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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aurelie
Location: pacific northwest
Gender: Female
high tech:: low life.
| | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 3 on 7/13/2010 12:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by DJ Craig
I've tried. That entrance is well sealed.
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Isn't it just a padlock over a hatch, if I remember correctly?
reckless thoughts abide; anachronistic and impulsive.
loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing. |
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PositivePressure
Location: High and low where most don't go
Gender: Male
Set your Tesla coil to broil
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 4 on 7/13/2010 12:11 AM >
| | | | why not use two ropes, or double one up? This would of course require one person to make it over solo to start with. Anchor the rope to the ladder at its halfway point so that it is fixed and cannot travel through the anchor, and then send both ends over the hump back toward your buddies. Now this way you can attach one ascender or prusik to each rope and alternate between the two. When one becomes weighted, you have a free, unweighted rope to slide up your second prusik/ascender on, and just alternate between the two to get up over the lip. Eliminates the problem with getting your ascenders jammed up by the rope and your body weight against the concrete.
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DJ Craig
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 5 on 7/13/2010 12:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by aurelie
Go at night and go through the intake towers?
edit: also, a long-ass rope ladder anchored at the bottom of the other ladder?
Make a separate trip with the boat with a full sized ladder. It isn't that difficult of terrain if you have multiple people carrying it. That or lower a ladder down through the spillway.
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Even with a ladder leaned up against that hump, it would only get you so far because of the curvature at the top. If you climbed it past the point where the ladder touched the concrete, it would tip over. There are absolutely no handholds on the top of that concrete once you get up there. Everything is curved. There are no right angles anywhere to wrap your hands around. It might be doable but wouldn't be much easier than the orange route, and significantly more dangerous.
EDIT: Also, you would need two ladders, not just one. Pulling a ladder up and over the hump and setting it down on the other side would be extremely difficult, as would trying to climb from the top of the hump to the top of the ladder. Remember you're doing all of this while perched on top of a wet, slippery, round surface with a 20 ft drop behind you and a 20 ft drop in front of you.
[last edit 7/13/2010 12:26 AM by DJ Craig - edited 1 times]
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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aurelie
Location: pacific northwest
Gender: Female
high tech:: low life.
| | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 6 on 7/13/2010 12:16 AM >
| | | | Posted by DJ Craig
Even with a ladder leaned up against that hump, it would only get you so far because of the curvature at the top. If you climbed it past the point where the ladder touched the concrete, it would tip over. There are absolutely no handholds on the top of that concrete once you get up there. Everything is curved. There are no right angles anywhere to wrap your hands around. It might be doable but wouldn't be much easier than the orange route, and significantly more dangerous.
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The ladder won't tip over if someone's holding it. Just have the less skilled climbers use the ladder, and the last person hold the ladder for them and then go over with ropes. Also, once you get one person over, you can keep the ladder from falling down with ropes tied to the ladder that's already there.
reckless thoughts abide; anachronistic and impulsive.
loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing. |
|
DJ Craig
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 7 on 7/13/2010 12:16 AM >
| | | | Posted by PositivePressure
why not use two ropes, or double one up? This would of course require one person to make it over solo to start with. Anchor the rope to the ladder at its halfway point so that it is fixed and cannot travel through the anchor, and then send both ends over the hump back toward your buddies. Now this way you can attach one ascender or prusik to each rope and alternate between the two. When one becomes weighted, you have a free, unweighted rope to slide up your second prusik/ascender on, and just alternate between the two to get up over the lip. Eliminates the problem with getting your ascenders jammed up by the rope and your body weight against the concrete.
http://i305.photob...tts/Untitled-1.jpg
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Amazing idea! I'll be giving this a shot on Wednesday. Still won't exactly make it easy...but hopefully much easier than it is now! 
Well...only problem with this is it involves me leaving an expensive climbing rope down there. But that's not too bad.
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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evan-e-cent
Gender: Male
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 8 on 7/13/2010 12:22 AM >
| | | | DJ Craig and I have been brainstorming this problem. He thought of making a rope ladder with PVC pipe rungs, but the rungs would press hard against the convex curve in the concrete. I suggested plastic disks (or wood blocks) at each end of the plastic pipe to keep the rung away from the concrete. The climber should anchor at each step in case the rung rotates. Squares of wood 8 x 8 x 2 with a 1 inch hole drilled through the middle would be less likely to rotate.
Craig suggested heavy duty plastic spools they use for rope or wire . That would do it. The problem is you would need about 60 of them and have to carry them in.
Anchoring the ladder is still a bit problematic as the ladder has to go up one side of the hump and down the other with anchors at both sides.
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PositivePressure
Location: High and low where most don't go
Gender: Male
Set your Tesla coil to broil
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 9 on 7/13/2010 12:26 AM >
| | | | Glad I could be of service
If you can figure out exactly how much rope you'd need, or even just ballpark it to within a safe buffer you could always buy some static off the spool at the local climbing shop as opposed to going with a whole prefab length. Probably wouldn't put a huge dent in the wallet. That or just keep the whole setup in one piece and take it with you when you leave and just reuse it every trip back.
Man, I wish I lived closer to that! Not that I even know where it is, but that's beside the point, haha.
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Fusspot
Location: Bay Area, CA
Gender: Female
Because... REASONS!
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 10 on 7/13/2010 12:43 AM >
| | | | Here's my experience with challenges like this which, granted, is limited and dated...
First, I'd open a blue portal on the face of the hump, then open an orange portal on the sidewall at the top of the hump. Go through the blue one, then step out onto the hump, re-open the blue portal at the base of the ladder, then step through the orange portal again, and VOILA! Cake for everyone!
Now that you have a viable solution, I don't feel as bad for not having an actual idea for you... 
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uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 11 on 7/13/2010 1:14 AM >
| | | | Why dont you just make a ladder and take it in there???
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
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aurelie
Location: pacific northwest
Gender: Female
high tech:: low life.
| | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 12 on 7/13/2010 1:22 AM >
| | | | Or just go down through the intake towers.
reckless thoughts abide; anachronistic and impulsive.
loosely jacketed against the cold and ten thousand worlds for the choosing. |
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bouncewiggle
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Female
| | | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 13 on 7/13/2010 1:23 AM >
| | | | Posted by DJ Craig
Well...only problem with this is it involves me leaving an expensive climbing rope down there. But that's not too bad.
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or you could just use utility rope.
"bouncewiggle, now more entertaining than Jell-O" |
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bouncewiggle
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Female
| | | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 14 on 7/13/2010 1:23 AM >
| | | | Posted by aurelie
Or just go down through the intake towers.
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and that. lol
"bouncewiggle, now more entertaining than Jell-O" |
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LAX
Location: Cincinnati
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 15 on 7/13/2010 1:29 AM >
| | | | I saw this on your Flickr 3 hours after you uploaded it and was wondering where this was going... It's much clearer with the explanation. ;)
I like the rope ladder idea, with some sort of spacers to keep it off the wall. That still means someone has to take the hard route though.
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 16 on 7/13/2010 1:29 AM >
| | | | http://www.ems.com...cp=3677347.3739639
For your 3" anchor.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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Avius
Location: Washington DC / NOVA
Gender: Male
Wow you guys!
| | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 17 on 7/13/2010 1:34 AM >
| | | | Wow, it has taken me until JUST NOW to actually understand how that place is set up. I had the completely wrong idea. Unfortunately, I can't think of anything better than what has already been suggested.
In places forgotten, tread where you will. -=- http://www.flickr.com/photos/avius/ |
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uLiveAndYouBurn
Location: Beyond
Anarchocommunist
| | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 18 on 7/13/2010 2:42 AM >
| | | | Posted by aurelie
Or just go down through the intake towers.
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But that idea has already been summarily cast out! We must come up with an overcomplicated and unnecessary method!
"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
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DJ Craig
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: Some troubles with the gloryhole
<Reply # 19 on 7/13/2010 3:29 AM >
| | | | Posted by uLiveAndYouBurn
But that idea has already been summarily cast out! We must come up with an overcomplicated and unnecessary method!
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I'm trying to avoid breaking and entering. Even if I did do that, I wouldn't be able to get most people over that fence. I can climb that fence. I know you and Aurelie can too. But it's not easy. And then who knows how long it would last before the lock got replaced and we'd have to do it again.
Posted by bouncewiggle
or you could just use utility rope.
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Good idea. I might do that.
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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