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 -insertnamehere-
 
Location: CO
Gender: Male
"...We're taking photos" ... "PHOTAHOES?!?!?! ?!"
 |  | Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
< on 12/21/2009 8:25 PM >
|  | | | I'm usually not too worried about this in larger drains, but I'm always a slight bit wary when I'm in smaller tunnels. It makes sense that drains are sloped, so heavier gasses should go downhill to the outflow, and lighter than air gasses go up and out. I think I found a couple of exceptions to this rule. For example, if you have a structure like this.
With incoming tunnels in yellow, the room in blue, and the inflow tunnels on the wall from pillboxes etc. in red.
could gasses get trapped in the ceiling of a room like this?
Overall, have any of you had bad experiences with gasses and/or no air while draining?
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musket boy
  
Location: Maui
Gender: Male
It smells like your grandpa and your feet stick to the floor
| |  |  | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 1 on 12/21/2009 8:29 PM >
|  | | | no
uering |
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AnAppleSnail
  
Location: Charlotte, NC
Gender: Male
ALL the flashlights!
| | | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 2 on 12/21/2009 8:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by -insertnamehere-
could gasses get trapped in the ceiling of a room like this?
Overall, have any of you had bad experiences with gasses and/or no air while draining?
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They could, but usually you'll find good airflow in walking-size drains. My rule of thumb is to only go in tunnels with moving air. It doesn't take much wind to keep air fresh, but you need a little bit of it to keep breathing. Aside from decomposing organic matter and illegal hookups, you will rarely find masses of unbreathable gas. However, some toxic things will kill you rather quickly. That's why I only go places where there's airflow - it dilutes most spills to nondeadly levels.
Once I encountered a sidepipe pouring chlorinated water. That trapped air upstream of it and caused insta-headaches in the whole group. We left and all was well. I'm not sure what would have happened if we'd gone on - the next surface connection was a half mile upstream.
Achievement Unlocked
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terapr0
 
Location: Sauga City
Gender: Male
www . tohellandback . net
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 3 on 12/21/2009 10:39 PM >
| | | | never had issues with bad air before.
best advice is to always travel in a group and just keep an eye on each other. never be afraid to speak up if you think you notice something, and always follow your nose. while hydrogen sulfide will numb your sense of smell after a minute or two of exposure, both h2s & methane have very distinct and unpleasant smells, especially in the concentrations required to kill you. even sanitary sewers have a fairly constant, surprisingly non-poo-like aroma once your in them, so a dangerous buildup of gas should definitely be noticeable. Of course that's only going to save you if you pay attention to your body and get out immediately. TBH I worry more about illegal industrial dumping than anything else, even in storm drains. I've seen stupid people pour toxic chemicals down a toilet or put them down a storm drain because they were too lazy to drop them off with the city - lazy maintenance techs at some big companies are just as negligent. A place I used to work for would pour paints and whatever half empty chemical buckets into their sump which I believe went (illegally) into the sewers. stuff like that is a lot more unpredictable and much scarier than "natural" accumulations of methane or h2s.
A gas meter is really your best bet, but in lieu of that just pay attention and don't ignore your body's own natural warning signs.
www.tohellandback.net |
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bonnie&clyde
Location: 510 & 415
Cleverly disguised as responsible adults
| | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 4 on 12/22/2009 10:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by AnAppleSnail
Once I encountered a sidepipe pouring chlorinated water. That trapped air upstream of it and caused insta-headaches in the whole group. We left and all was well. I'm not sure what would have happened if we'd gone on - the next surface connection was a half mile upstream.
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Lack of oxygen will cause almost instant headaches, then you get light headed, then you pass out....then ur dead. You did the right thing.
The question is not when are we gonna stop, It's who's gonna stop us?
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AnAppleSnail
Location: Charlotte, NC
Gender: Male
ALL the flashlights!
| | | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 5 on 12/23/2009 1:05 AM >
| | | | Posted by bonnie&clyde
Lack of oxygen will cause almost instant headaches, then you get light headed, then you pass out....then ur dead. You did the right thing.
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Likely death is one of the few things that makes me leave a drain early. But this wasn't lack of oxygen, it was toxic gases (likely chlorine and ammonia) trapped there. There was enough oxygen (my pulse didn't increase as hypoxia causes) but also a little something extra. Without a gas-meter (neither money to buy or calibrate), I go with other clues, and leave if I have doubts. Nobody should fuck around with potential dying - a headache or strangely high pulse is a strong vote for leaving.
Achievement Unlocked
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 6 on 12/24/2009 4:12 PM >
| | | | The cheapest meter I ever bought for detecting flammable gasses in confined spaces, mainly sanitary sewers, is a pack of cigars, although that's debatable. Have you seen the price of those lately? I just light one and if I get to smoke it, we havent reached the LEL yet. Seriously in a drain I'm more worried about rain, even a little, than I am of gasses. I almost never run into gas problems, except in some mines.
http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=12116
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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digital_me
Location: Colorado
Gender: Male
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 7 on 12/25/2009 4:56 AM >
| | | | tl;dr
No.
Unless you're in a CSO, it's psychosomatic.
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kowalski
| | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 8 on 12/25/2009 5:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by digital_me
Unless you're in a CSO, it's psychosomatic.
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This isn't really true. I've been in storm drains with trapped organic matter (plants and leaves for instance) under a layer of mud. Squelch through that mud and you start releasing Hydrogen Sulfide. See here.
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Crumpet
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Gender: Male
You know you're in Brisbane when...
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 9 on 12/25/2009 10:16 AM >
| | | | I've encountered low oxygen levels in one drain (which was very minor really), and that's the summary of my drain atmosphere troubles.
Posted by junkyard
Seriously in a drain I'm more worried about rain, even a little, than I am of gasses.
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^This. When packing for an expo the night before, I'm not thinking "now what gas could I potentially encounter tomorrow"; rather, I'm refreshing the weather radar loop every half hour and evil-eyeing any patches of cloud cover like agents of the devil.
The chances of you having problems in a non-CSO stormwater drain are pretty slim at best worst; just be mindful of the danger and you should be fine.
[last edit 12/25/2009 10:18 AM by Crumpet - edited 1 times]
- Crumpet (http://www.urbanillusions.org)
[from micro's "drainer rules"] 3rd RULE: If someone says "rain" or "thunderstorm", the draining is over. |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 10 on 12/26/2009 2:34 AM >
| | | | Even in straight sanitary, I've never had any real problems. But being a mechanic muther fucker I can run a car with the garage door shut forever and not die. So I'm probably not the guy to ask.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 11 on 12/26/2009 2:46 AM >
| | | | Those used heroin needles are waaay more dangerous.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 12 on 12/26/2009 2:50 AM >
| | | | Can't say I've ever run into those, but many a tampon, even a fresh flushed one after we heard the gurgling in the pipe. And we have pictures of rubbers and cigerette butts next to each other
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 13 on 12/26/2009 2:55 AM >
| | | | Posted by junkyard
Can't say I've ever run into those, but many a tampon, even a fresh flushed one after we heard the gurgling in the pipe. And we have pictures of rubbers and cigerette butts next to each other
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I know of pretty big drains I won't go into because of that particular risk. Even steel toes won't help you if you fall face first into one.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 14 on 12/26/2009 3:31 PM >
| | | | It wasn't a drain and if you hit a slippery side slope, you make sure you fall on your side, the wadders will keep most of it off you.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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Bryan
 
Location: hello
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 15 on 12/26/2009 7:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
I know of pretty big drains I won't go into because of that particular risk. Even steel toes won't help you if you fall face first into one.
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If that's the only thing keeping you out of a big drain, then this probably isn't the hobby for you. You have a bigger chance of getting raped by a meth addict than you do falling on one of those and getting a disease. They're usually carried away in the flow, and if they're not, it's rare that you'll see them, and even more rare that you'll find that one that is uncapped, in a position that can prick you, and that you'll lose your balance at that exact moment, and manage to fall face first into one.
drive well sleep carefully
http://www.exboration.com/ |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 16 on 12/27/2009 4:36 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bryan
If that's the only thing keeping you out of a big drain, then this probably isn't the hobby for you.
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Well the town it's in is the "Heroin Capital of the USA."
"Big Drain" = The outfall is 6' RCP ... not what you probably think of as a "big drain"
Draining and abandonments aren't really my cup of tea, though I have a soft spot for industrial places.
I've said this multiple times IRL but infiltration and immediate death risks (IE climbing) are my definition of fun. (More the later because infiltration is difficult seeing as I still look like I'm 17)
I like adrenaline.
And I was more worried about walking into a pocket with a shit ton of them. (Why would they be capped if they were discarded?) Obviously HIV couldn't survive but it could be covered in all kinds of other fucking bacteria and viruses that would cause a horrid infection. For a 5' RCP outfall? Yeeah not worth it.
[last edit 12/27/2009 4:40 AM by \/adder - edited 1 times]
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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TuxThePenguin
Location: De Pere, WI
Gender: Male
| | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 17 on 12/28/2009 6:28 AM >
| | | | Typically, I've found that in drains that are big enough to not have to crawl through, ventilation and air supply shouldn't be too much of an issue. Sewers, however, are another story.
As a rule of thumb - whenever you are underground, be it in a sewer, drain, cave, tunnel, or the crawlspace under your mother's house, if someone begins to get a headache, light headed, or smells something funny, GET OUT. No matter how 'cool' or 'amazing' something down the tunnel might be, it's not worth dying face-down in a stream of sewage.
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metawaffle
King of Puns
Location: Brisbane!
Gender: Male
Purveyor of Fine Lampshades
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 18 on 12/28/2009 6:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by Crumpet
I've encountered low oxygen levels in one drain (which was very minor really), and that's the summary of my drain atmosphere troubles.
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In Brissie?
http://www.longexposure.net |
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Crumpet
Location: Brisbane, AUS
Gender: Male
You know you're in Brisbane when...
| | | Re: Toxic/Unbreathable gasses in drains
<Reply # 19 on 12/28/2009 2:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by metawaffle
In Brissie?
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Yeah, a small suburban drain which we later found out wasn't worth the trouble anyway. In retrospect, it wasn't terrible so we probably could've continued on, but there was only one safe exit up ahead (several hundred metres away) and the drain was a total shrinker, so there would've been no hope of bailing at the infall.
- Crumpet (http://www.urbanillusions.org)
[from micro's "drainer rules"] 3rd RULE: If someone says "rain" or "thunderstorm", the draining is over. |
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