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UER Forum > Archived UE Main > rope work (Viewed 15245 times)
\/adder 


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Re: rope work
<Reply # 140 on 4/26/2010 3:03 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by MindHacker
working strength = 1/3rd breaking strength.

"Not for live loads" = "Don't sue us"

Etriers = awesome for bringing newbs along, not so awesome as the only entry method.


True this.

1/3rd lol ... but I like to live dangerously.
[last edit 4/26/2010 3:03 AM by \/adder - edited 1 times]

"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 141 on 4/26/2010 3:48 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by MindHacker
working strength = 1/3rd breaking strength.

"Not for live loads" = "Don't sue us"

Etriers = awesome for bringing newbs along, not so awesome as the only entry method.


Etriers = Have their own specific uses, and they're great when they're needed.

Who said anything about using it as the *ONLY* entry method???

Maybe I'm just not a cheapass, but I use a WLL that's 1/10th the rated tensile strength. Which with today's modern manufactured ropes will still give you an amazing amount of room to work with. Hell, for the relative difference in price, why work with a 3x buffer when you can work with a 10x one?

I can't even think of any rope I could buy that's "life rated" that would have less than a 1/10th usable WLL.


What's with UER's big hangup on etriers?
I think that alot of you guys came to the rope equipment from your urbex'ing stuff, and grabbed what you though looked good instead of really having a clue how most of the stuff is regularly used. Just my opinion. Sounds like all these ppl went and were like "look an et-rear-ee...oh! a rope ladder! Then they get to the site and they go... DOH! WTF is up with this shit?



Etriers and daisy chains come in extremely handy when you're aid climbing. Such as traversing an entire stretch of rockface using a series of cracs running along the face which are to small to climb using conventional methods.

You place your pieces, and you use etriers and daisy chains to adjust the amount of room between your feet and your Tie in point (tip) on your harness so that you have the comfortable amount of offset between the piece you just set and the piece you're clipping out of, and the new one you're going to set.
Having a series of placements on an etriere just gives you spots to put your feet for distance from what you placed, and to push-test the piece.

They aren't designed to climb like a ladder.

But, when climbing sets of beams that are set too high above eachother to grab and muscle your way up, throwing a strap over and clipping in an etrier is a viable way of getting up several sets of short verticals, short of doing a bunch of mini ascents for each successive set. It's not *easy* or *comfortable*....but it does work for that.
[last edit 4/26/2010 3:53 AM by Therrin - edited 1 times]

Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 142 on 4/26/2010 3:28 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
yea I know in On Rope they also define a safe working load as 1/10th of the ropes rated breaking strength...it's what expected by OHSB regulations around here as well for any "professional" vertical workers. Like Therrin noted, if you're buying "real" name brand climbing rope it will be this strong. Shit from Home Depot? not so much

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Re: rope work
<Reply # 143 on 4/26/2010 9:17 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Aiders are very useful tools for a number of situations. They're certainly not for "newbs".

Living dangerously is one thing. Being stupid is another.

How about dying dangerously? Sound like fun too?

Posted by TheVicariousVadder1/3rd lol ... but I like to live dangerously.




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Re: rope work
<Reply # 144 on 4/26/2010 9:33 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
For anyone else reading this that might be tempted to go the cheap route, I'd like to point out that there are MUCH better things to cheap out on than your rope

For example:
Petzl Ascension: $70
8mm cord used as a prusik: less than $10

The Ascension is a badass ascender (I know, I have two) but a prusik works just as well and for anything under 50 feet I'd leave the ascenders home anyway just to save weight and space.

Basic climbing harness: $40-50
10 feet of 1" webbing: less than $10

You can make a perfectly safe and usable harness out of webbing and it won't be any less comfortable than an unpadded alpine harness (you can use rope too but it won't feel as nice). For rappels and short ascents they will be more than fine.

Add in savings from making your own footloops and slings (although slings are so cheap I'd rather buy sewn ones than tie my own since, like Therrin said, knots are weak points) and you just saved enough money to buy yourself a proper rope. Someone mentioned PMI Pit Rope which is probably the best and cheapest static line you'll find (70 cents a foot! abrasion resistant!).

Spend smart!
[last edit 4/26/2010 9:34 PM by jbtxk - edited 2 times]

attempt the absurd!
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 145 on 4/26/2010 10:20 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
You can make a perfectly safe and usable harness out of webbing and it won't be any less comfortable than an unpadded alpine harness (you can use rope too but it won't feel as nice). For rappels and short ascents they will be more than fine.


Or you can buy a perfectly safe and comfy harness for about $35 if you look around. Who would wear an unpadded alpine harness unless they absolutely had to anyway? D'oh! webbing harnesses are the suck. If you're gonna cheapass out to the point of making a webbing harness, at least use 2" tubular webbing instead of 1". Geez.


Plus, I make most of my slings using water knots. Yes, knots downgrade the strength of a rope/sling/etc... but seriously, when the sling can hold 3200lbs, and you tie a water knot... you're still in the ballpark even with a 1/10th saftey buffer.
Don't get me wrong, sewn slings are great, but they're also fixed lengths. For me personally (since I'm so tall), I prefer to tie my own slings so they're set exactly for the length I want them. Also, you can use them more easily that way to put around an anchor that may be too large around to fit a sewn runner.

If you find sewn slings the length you regularly need them though, and you dont mind the price, then they're splendid.

I thought it was kinda funny that you suggest NOT spending $40 on a harness and to use 1" webbing instead, but then you say to use sewn slings, which cost $15 to $20 apiece anyway!!! lulz

Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 146 on 4/26/2010 10:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by OpenTrackRacer
How about dying dangerously? Sound like fun too?


Actually, a life goal.

"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 147 on 4/27/2010 2:12 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by OpenTrackRacer
Aiders are very useful tools for a number of situations. They're certainly not for "newbs".


I know, and I've used them as placed aid. But for a short climb / urbex situations, I'll just climb up the wall, or up the rope. Etriers are a good method for bringing along those who can't. If it's a long climb, I'll use ascenders and do it right, but that's a rarity in real-life situations

Because honestly, how often do you need advanced aid climbing - especially something like a traverse - while urbexing?

"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 148 on 4/27/2010 4:40 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Because honestly, how often do you need advanced aid climbing - especially something like a traverse - while urbexing?


Maybe not the specific "aid climbing" style used on rockface, but get into mineshaft exploration and you'll be using alot of equipment that you wouldn't use otherwise in your other urbexing spots.
With mines, the gear you use defines what you're able to get into and see; so if you're savvy about your stuff and you have the right equipment, entire worlds are open to you that otherwise wouldn't be.
That's why there are so FEW people who actually get to alot of the secluded, difficult-to-access mineshaft areas.

One a rock wall at the end of a drift that Snordhol and I were exploring in the Waterloo, there's names/dates written in carbide and chalk dating from the 60's all the way back to the 20's; and there were only about 6 names on the wall. But the tunnels are around 100 to 120 years old.

How many urbex locations can you go to that are THAT old that have seen so few explorers over the span of 100 to 120 years? That's part of the appeal.

Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 149 on 4/27/2010 10:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Therrin

If you're gonna cheapass out to the point of making a webbing harness, at least use 2" tubular webbing instead of 1". Geez.

I thought it was kinda funny that you suggest NOT spending $40 on a harness and to use 1" webbing instead, but then you say to use sewn slings, which cost $15 to $20 apiece anyway!!! lulz



WOW, I had no idea they were that expensive. I can't remember the last time I actually paid money for one... I just kind of acquire them. I take back that advice then, make your own!

And I agree on the 2" webbing being a lot better, I was just pointing out that for a 25' ascent to the bottom of a ladder you can make do with a homemade harness of any sort.

attempt the absurd!
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 150 on 4/28/2010 6:23 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I get my slings (sewn runners) and webbing from a company called Fish Products. They have very good prices and the quality is excellent....

http://www.fishpro...productlinefs.html



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Re: rope work
<Reply # 151 on 4/28/2010 6:12 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by OpenTrackRacer
How about dying dangerously? Sound like fun too?

Actually, yes.

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Re: rope work
<Reply # 152 on 4/28/2010 9:45 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Uh huh. How about if it happens tomorrow?

Talk is cheap.


Posted by digital_me
Actually, yes.


Posted by TheVicariousVadder
Actually, a life goal.


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Re: rope work
<Reply # 153 on 4/28/2010 11:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by OpenTrackRacer
Uh huh. How about if it happens tomorrow?

Talk is cheap.



Agreed. And dying dangerously because you bought third-rate equipment is pretty lame compared to dying dangerously because what you were trying to do was just so risky despite having (and knowing how to use) all the right equipment.

~Chappie

"By the early 1970s, techniques of tape manipulation were being superseded by synthesizers, especially the Moog synthesizer, which could theoretically produce any type of pitch or timbre, but usually made a sound like a cat chewing a bee." ~ BBC Radiophonic Workshop - The Alchemists of Sound
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 154 on 4/28/2010 11:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by OpenTrackRacer
Uh huh. How about if it happens tomorrow?

Nonsense, I'm not doing anything dangerous tomorrow but I could still get hit by a bus.

I could have died today as walked out on three abandoned rail bridges trying to finish my photoessay for photography class. The first bridge was nothing, I've done it before, maybe a 25' fall? There were 25MPH gusts as I balanced on a 12" wide beam a good 75' up above the Blackstone river on the second. I practically crawled off the 3rd because the wind was so bad I could barely walk across the chewed up beams and also because I got yelled at by police in speed boats (to "GET OFF THE BRIDGE") who saw me because I picked the day they had to have college rowboat races to try and climb the last bridge.

I've had way closer calls on way less though:

Myself and another explorer almost hopped onto a third rail before another in our group alerted us to it a month ago, we were crossing railroad tracks. I almost drowned trying to cross a detention basin after checking out a drain three weeks ago. I almost tumbled to my death more than once clambering down abandoned silos in February, balance and steady hands kept me upright.

Well, I haven't really done that much exploring recently but every time I've done something high risk that I know could legitimately kill me: I make it through unscathed. But it's stupid little adventures that result in these seriously close call ... I think I am doing it right?

Talk is cheap.

Good rope is expensive.

"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
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Re: rope work
<Reply # 155 on 4/29/2010 1:51 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Cheapest gear store I've found.

$47.88 for a NEW petzl ascension ascender!!

http://www.outdoor...ers_belay_devices/

"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
MindHacker 


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Re: rope work
<Reply # 156 on 4/29/2010 4:12 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by uLiveAndYouBurn
Cheapest gear store I've found.

$47.88 for a NEW petzl ascension ascender!!

http://www.outdoor...ers_belay_devices/


That's an incredible deal. I bought mine for more than that, used, and I had to polish the surface rust off of 'em.

"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire
Therrin 

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Re: rope work
<Reply # 157 on 4/29/2010 4:16 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
So UPS showed up a couple days ago, my new equipment came.

I got the Petzl Croll ascender, the torse chest strap, the spelegyca, the Gonzo Guano Gear double footloop, some snap covers for the vent holes on my helmet, and some new foam liners for my helmet because the old ones have worn off in the last 8 or 9 years.

All in all a pretty good haul. Thanks to OpenTrackRacer for letting me try his "frog" setup on our last trip, I liked it so much I bought my own!

Can't wait to go use it, even though I already know how AWESOME it works.


EDIT: Got my ascensions from a friend who had only minorly used them for a couple months while learning DRT. They looked perfect, only some very minor scuff marks. $20 each!!! (yay!)

I'm going to retire my minitraxion to rigging only use now. It's served its purpose several times over and I think its "life rated" service needs to end.
[last edit 4/29/2010 4:21 AM by Therrin - edited 1 times]

Give a person a match and they'll be warm for a minute, but light them on fire and they'll be warm for the rest of their life. =)
\/adder 


Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male


I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.

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Re: rope work
<Reply # 158 on 4/29/2010 12:15 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by MindHacker


That's an incredible deal. I bought mine for more than that, used, and I had to polish the surface rust off of 'em.


I paid $45 for mine, but I had a $25 off $75 or more EMS Gearbucks card.

"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
uLiveAndYouBurn 


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Re: rope work
<Reply # 159 on 4/29/2010 2:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by MindHacker


That's an incredible deal. I bought mine for more than that, used, and I had to polish the surface rust off of 'em.


Yeah its a UK based company. I ordered a croll and an ascension on Thursday and got them both by air mail yesterday. Needless to say I'll be ordering more from them in the future.

"Aint nothin' to it but to do it"
UER Forum > Archived UE Main > rope work (Viewed 15245 times)
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