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UER Forum > Archived Canada: Alberta / BC > Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria (Viewed 3452 times)
Mowgli-dog 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 20 on 12/5/2008 8:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I didn't think there were any homeless people in there. Didn't the original poster say that it had been sealed for years? Why would "the evil ones" burn down the building to keep it out of the hands of the pesky homeless people if said pesky homeless people were note even in there to begin with?
Did anyone happen to see a maroon Lexus leaving the scene at a high rate of speed?

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell

Rest in peace, my pal Mowgli - the best dog there ever was.
yoshkow 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 21 on 12/5/2008 9:57 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I didn't think there were any homeless people in there. Didn't the original poster say that it had been sealed for years? Why would "the evil ones" burn down the building to keep it out of the hands of the pesky homeless people if said pesky homeless people were note even in there to begin with?
Did anyone happen to see a maroon Lexus leaving the scene at a high rate of speed?


No, I was not aware of homeless people in the hotel itself, but there are a number on Cook St. just a little bit down the road (in the area where the first of the two fires broke out).

Sorry, missed the Lexus...

“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
KublaKhan 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 22 on 12/5/2008 11:17 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
ITEM 1

ITEM 2

Homeless set blaze in old, abandoned tunnel under Douglas Street; [Final Edition]

Rob Shaw. Times - Colonist. Victoria, B.C.: Dec 21, 2007. pg. A.1

City of Victoria crews were busy yesterday trying to seal off the entrance to a 100-year-old tunnel beneath Douglas Street after a group of homeless people was discovered living there.

The ancient passageway, at one time used to shuttle laundry out of the Fairmont Empress hotel, was supposed to be inaccessible to the public because the city had declared it unsafe.

However, an undetermined number of homeless people had pried open an access point and had apparently been there for "quite some time," said City of Victoria communications manager Katie Josephson. Numerous belongings were left scattered inside, she said.

The group likely would have still been there undetected had they not decided to light fires in the tunnel Wednesday night. Businesses near the Victoria Conference Centre, at the east side of the hotel, as well as those across Douglas Street, reported smoke pouring from underground.

"It was a fair amount of smoke coming out of there but nothing too serious," said Victoria fire Capt. Neil Aldous.

"It was in a bit of an unusual place where we don't usually see fires."

Firefighters arrived at the tunnel around 10:50 p.m., but the fires had mostly extinguished on their own, Aldous said.

It was disruptive for some businesses, such as National Car Rental on the other side of Douglas Street from the hotel. It still smelled like burned wires yesterday, manager Lise Daigle said.

"It's challenging, because we've got no phones and no computers," she said. The phone lines were fried in the blaze, and the Internet connection was also down. Telus expected to fix both late yesterday. Despite the inconvenience, the business has stayed open, Daigle said.

The tunnel is one of many that remain hidden below the city's downtown core, according to Victoria folklore. The Empress built the tunnel in 1908 to provide an underground passageway to a power plant and laundry facility near Douglas and Humboldt streets, according to the book The Empress Hotel: In the Grand Style by Terry Reksten.

The city is now exploring other ways to reseal the passageway. Josephson said she was reluctant to discuss the tunnel's exact location and how to access it, in order to prevent others from trying to break in and live there in the future.


And now this...
[last edit 12/5/2008 11:22 PM by KublaKhan - edited 1 times]

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Mowgli-dog 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 23 on 12/6/2008 1:41 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Yep, sadly, when squatters get into buildings, fires are not too far behind.

Last year I had the opportunity to poke thru the 100 year old buildings on the south side of the 100 block West Hastings, directly across from the Woodwards re-development. Almost the whole block is boarded up. There were dozens of scars on the floor from "campfires" that had been set by those squatting inside - any one of which could have gotten out of control and destroyed the whole block if given the right circumstances.

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell

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KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 24 on 12/6/2008 2:17 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mowgli-dog
Yep, sadly, when squatters get into buildings, fires are not too far behind.

Last year I had the opportunity to poke thru the 100 year old buildings on the south side of the 100 block West Hastings, directly across from the Woodwards re-development. Almost the whole block is boarded up. There were dozens of scars on the floor from "campfires" that had been set by those squatting inside - any one of which could have gotten out of control and destroyed the whole block if given the right circumstances.


Yeah, but my point is that the fires in these cases are a bit suspicious.

Meaning that I have strong doubts as to the legitimacy of the claim, re: homeless started the fires.



"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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lupurus 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 25 on 12/6/2008 8:39 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
How 'bout that old no-longer a building next to Swans? Forgive me if this has been mentioned or I'm getting this totally wrong, but wasn't that brought down by a fire supposedly caused by people using it for shelter?

-Lupurus

Mowgli-dog 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 26 on 12/6/2008 8:52 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I think you're grasping at the conspiracy straws, KK, I guess it makes for interesting reading, but come on, sometimes we need to look at things objectively.

Why would "someone" set a fire in the Empress Hotel tunnel?
just to drive the homeless squatters out? Why not go down there with Police and kick them out, then seal it, thus avoiding the damage to Telus internet and phone cables.

The old hotel above the bike store? Was that fire set intentionally to keep homeless out before they were able to get in?

Pandora squat - I guess anyone could have burned that down, but I really don't see the link in you taking a few pictures of it, then posting them on a UE forum, then mysteriously it's set alight. Mere coincidence, I would say. A urine soaked dump with shit smeared on the walls is not really a place to be cherished. If you're a junkie hanging out with like minded people I guess it's the place to be for a while. That is until your crack head friend sets it on fire to keep the invisible snakes from getting him. No matter, move on to the next crack house/abandonment, smash everything, remove all salvageable metal, do dope, smear shit on walls, repeat..

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell

Rest in peace, my pal Mowgli - the best dog there ever was.
lupurus 


Location: Victoria, BC
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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 27 on 12/6/2008 8:57 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Well, like KK said, it seems that the fires come up to bash development plans too. Admittedly, it's a huge stretch right now. However, if something bad happens to the Janion now that it's finally getting some attention, let it be known that KK called it, and something is afoot : )

-Lup

KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 28 on 12/7/2008 6:18 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mowgli-dog
I think you're grasping at the conspiracy straws, KK, I guess it makes for interesting reading, but come on, sometimes we need to look at things objectively.

Why would "someone" set a fire in the Empress Hotel tunnel?
just to drive the homeless squatters out? Why not go down there with Police and kick them out, then seal it, thus avoiding the damage to Telus internet and phone cables.

The old hotel above the bike store? Was that fire set intentionally to keep homeless out before they were able to get in?

Pandora squat - I guess anyone could have burned that down, but I really don't see the link in you taking a few pictures of it, then posting them on a UE forum, then mysteriously it's set alight. Mere coincidence, I would say. A urine soaked dump with shit smeared on the walls is not really a place to be cherished. If you're a junkie hanging out with like minded people I guess it's the place to be for a while. That is until your crack head friend sets it on fire to keep the invisible snakes from getting him. No matter, move on to the next crack house/abandonment, smash everything, remove all salvageable metal, do dope, smear shit on walls, repeat..


All valid points, to be sure. Might be worth checking the development plans for the lot above where the Empress tunnel was discovered. I have $5(CAN) that says it will miraculously transform from an open parking lot to a towering condo within the next couple of years. Just a guess, mind you.

The Pandora thing follows a similar line. What better way to 'appropriate' a derelict building than by having a mysterious fire set by deranged addicts. The condo plan that was scheduled to go up in the vacant lot (formerly a perking lot) got axed shortly after the fire. And not it's nothing but a pretty field of poppies.

Just a thought.



"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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Mowgli-dog 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 29 on 12/7/2008 10:02 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by KublaKhan


All valid points, to be sure. Might be worth checking the development plans for the lot above where the Empress tunnel was discovered. I have $5(CAN) that says it will miraculously transform from an open parking lot to a towering condo within the next couple of years. Just a guess, mind you.

The Pandora thing follows a similar line. What better way to 'appropriate' a derelict building than by having a mysterious fire set by deranged addicts. The condo plan that was scheduled to go up in the vacant lot (formerly a perking lot) got axed shortly after the fire. And not it's nothing but a pretty field of poppies.

Just a thought.


$5 USD and it would be ON!



"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell

Rest in peace, my pal Mowgli - the best dog there ever was.
yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 30 on 12/9/2008 12:38 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
So KK, are you proposing that "deranged addicts" are unlikely to or incapable of mismanaging a fire to the extend of it burning a "derelict building" or tunnel down, or are you simply looking at the number of such cases and their consequences and pinning the cause to a "higher power"?

I don't know much about these issues, but it seems to me that if the consequence of the fires repeatedly favours the development of condos to the detriment of the homeless, then it begins to look like motive. Conversely, if the homeless win and the developers lose, then it looks like the opposite agent of chaos is at play. If neither side loses or gains much out of the fires, then it looks like an accident or, at worst, unrelated mischief.

So the real question is: Who has anything to gain from these fires?

“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
yellow_wallpaper 


Location: Victoria, Canada


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 31 on 12/9/2008 7:13 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by yoshkow
So KK, are you proposing that "deranged addicts" are unlikely to or incapable of mismanaging a fire to the extend of it burning a "derelict building" or tunnel down, or are you simply looking at the number of such cases and their consequences and pinning the cause to a "higher power"?

I don't know much about these issues, but it seems to me that if the consequence of the fires repeatedly favours the development of condos to the detriment of the homeless, then it begins to look like motive. Conversely, if the homeless win and the developers lose, then it looks like the opposite agent of chaos is at play. If neither side loses or gains much out of the fires, then it looks like an accident or, at worst, unrelated mischief.

So the real question is: Who has anything to gain from these fires?



When do the homeless win in these cases? Its always developers, and sometimes historical society if we're lucky. When something goes up in flames, its deemed as derelict and therefore worthless. Developers jump in faster than.... well, something that moves quickly.

"...let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure." - Dumbledore
yoshkow 


Location: Victoria
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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 32 on 12/9/2008 9:12 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Ok...I'm finally starting to get it, I think. It's not necessarily the case that the developers are trying to get rid of the homeless people from their potential development sites. It's simply that the developers need to prove that such-and-such a building is too old and must be torn down and replaced with condos. A fire started by the local "residents" puts the building in a condition of needing redevelopment. Good-bye old building; good-bye former residents; hello new condos.
Is that right?


“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.”
- Helen Keller
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 33 on 12/9/2008 9:35 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by yoshkow
Ok...I'm finally starting to get it, I think. It's not necessarily the case that the developers are trying to get rid of the homeless people from their potential development sites. It's simply that the developers need to prove that such-and-such a building is too old and must be torn down and replaced with condos. A fire started by the local "residents" puts the building in a condition of needing redevelopment. Good-bye old building; good-bye former residents; hello new condos.
Is that right?



DING!

"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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Mowgli-dog 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 34 on 12/10/2008 1:45 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
And the utility tunnel?

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." -George Orwell

Rest in peace, my pal Mowgli - the best dog there ever was.
yellow_wallpaper 


Location: Victoria, Canada


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 35 on 12/10/2008 4:16 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mowgli-dog
And the utility tunnel?




JPeterman, KK, or A.Lien can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the entrance to the tunnel that went up a year ago is now a Condo.

"...let us step into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure." - Dumbledore
\/adder 


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 36 on 12/10/2008 5:09 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Lol, at first glance I thought your post said this:
Posted by KublaKhan

Homeless set ablaze in old, abandoned tunnel under Douglas Street


I pictured a crazed explorer who's hobo stab insurance was up with a flame thrower:
"Burn You Homeless Bastards, Burn!"

"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis...
KublaKhan 


Location: Edinburgh, Scotland


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Re: Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria
<Reply # 37 on 12/10/2008 6:33 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by TheVicariousVadder
Lol, at first glance I thought your post said this:

I pictured a crazed explorer who's hobo stab insurance was up with a flame thrower:
"Burn You Homeless Bastards, Burn!"


Um...no. You are mistaken.

"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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UER Forum > Archived Canada: Alberta / BC > Secret Hotel in Downtown Victoria (Viewed 3452 times)
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