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 HauntedPA
    
Location: Anywhere and Everywhere
Gender: Female
What do you mean the rum is gone?!
 |  | Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
< on 1/29/2004 1:43 AM >
|  | | | Ok now that you've read the title of this thread I'm guess you've figured out who I am talking about here. Also given the nature of this issue I feel that it should be posted in the Main forum since it affects us all.
__________________________
Begin Rant:
I'll start this off by saying that this is not a personal attack on Shane. Just the practices he's been using as a moderator. Hence the title...he's a good person and explorer. Even one that I hope to meet up with one day. However, his use of Mod powers has been almost tyrannical as of late.
I mean locking a thread that has gone slightly offtopic for 1 or 2 posts is almost absurd. There is still opportunity for that thread to come back into itself very easily. If there seems to be a problem with a few people who are posting try and contact them in regards to the matter before locking things up for everyone else.
Surely there are exceptions to that which we've all seen lately, but that's a different topic entire which was addressed by DarkTreader in another thread.
As far as deleting posts go I can't say that he has been 100% unfair. He does PM with a statement as to why it was removed. This is a good thing. However, for certain cases the deleting has happened at what seems at best to be randomness. Deleting a post should be a last resort not an instinctual action to a post that goes offtopic for one reason or another. It creates the whole "walking on eggshells" feeling from people who want to say something, but end up putting in snide remarks like "i know this will probably get deleted" and the like. There's no reason that this should ever be the case.
All in all I think that Shane should tone things down a bit. Let the board wax and wane naturally. If something gets out of hand then deal with. Being too pre-emptive is almost as bad as letting things go completely offtopic. A happy medium has to be found.
With that I open this up to everyone else...feel free to post your comments concerns, suggestions and possibly even constructive criticism.
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Decoy
 
Location: Leslieville
Gender: Male
Oh I have slipped the bonds of earth...
| | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 1 on 1/29/2004 1:49 AM >
| | | | My only experience with shane that I can recall, is him deleting a post of mine, however, it was at least 90% called for. It just took his pointing it out to me to realize it.
I don't think that he's tyranical, but I HAVE heard alot of people complaining as of late..
Perhaps, as you suggested, if he were to tone down his locking or deleting a little bit...
Actually, another suggestion of mine would be that more mods do what Ninj and Crossfire do quite often. Rather than deleting the post, or locking the thread (unless absolutely called for)... I have noticed that they edit the post with a little reminder, or post a reminder themselves if it applies to more than one person in a given thread. Sometimes they just ask you to stay on topic, and other times they tell you that there's too much info in your post, or that it's just a plain old terrible post. But, and here's the thing, they leave it up. It kinda lets us learn from our mistakes, and is a little less embarrassing on a personal level.
It's a drag, it's a bore, it's really such a pitty
To be lookin' at the board, not lookin' at the city. |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| |  |  |  |  | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 2 on 1/29/2004 1:51 AM >
| | | | Posted by HauntedPA
I mean locking a thread that has gone slightly offtopic for 1 or 2 posts is almost absurd. There is still opportunity for that thread to come back into itself very easily. If there seems to be a problem with a few people who are posting try and contact them in regards to the matter before locking things up for everyone else.
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That thread was locked because it was a simple question by a user on how to access PM's and had been answered already. It then descended into off topic stuff not related to the original question in any way whatsoever. The users question had been answered, and hence there was no more on-topic discussion that could have happened in that thread. The issue was resolved.
As far as deleting posts go I can't say that he has been 100% unfair. He does PM with a statement as to why it was removed. This is a good thing. However, for certain cases the deleting has happened at what seems at best to be randomness.
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Please provide some examples of things being deleted for randomness. I have yet to see a single hard cut example of this brought up by ANYONE. Just general whining and complaining without backing it up with any facts.
All in all I think that Shane should tone things down a bit. Let the board wax and wane naturally. If something gets out of hand then deal with. Being too pre-emptive is almost as bad as letting things go completely offtopic. A happy medium has to be found.
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As stated in another thread, I am toning things down in reference to removing off topic posts as of late. If you took any notice, I have politely made comments in threads *REQUESTING* that things get back on topic and not removing posts which probably shouldn't be there. I have barely removed any posts in the past few days, and the ones that have been removed were clearly off topic.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Carrie@HPA
Location: Stuck in Hell.. Still!
Gender: Female
Death, Distruction and Chaos.. At Your Service.
| |  | | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 3 on 1/29/2004 1:55 AM >
| | | | I guess I just don't see how it's a problem to post something to someone saying "Good Job!" or "Awesome Photo, thats a great shot" and have it removed for "usless" or "Off-Topic". I don't consider congraduating someone off-topic. Maybe that's just me though.
Yes, I'm a bitch but we all knew that.
~*Carrie*~ Co-Founder Haunted Pennsylvania "Because we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way" |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 4 on 1/29/2004 2:00 AM >
| | | | Posted by Carrie @ Haunted Pennsylvania
I guess I just don't see how it's a problem to post something to someone saying "Good Job!" or "Awesome Photo, thats a great shot" and have it removed for "usless" or "Off-Topic". I don't consider congraduating someone off-topic. Maybe that's just me though.
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For the most part I don't delete those type of posts, although some moderators do. If it is just an LOL! post or something like that, I will delete it, but there are plenty of examples of where those things are still up. I do prefer if people would post a complete sentence at the very least, or maybe make some specific comment about what they like, but like I said, I don't normally delete positive comments like that.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 5 on 1/29/2004 2:13 AM >
|  | | | I'd just like to say, I'm really glad so many of you are perfect because it really helps...
When a person takes on new tasks for the first time, there is often some problems. I'll say Shane has probably been a bit trigger happy, but it's a learning experience. Bitching and being rude won't really help. Showing a bit of understanding and maybe sending a PM explaining rationally how you feel would do a lot more.
I think Shane could let more go than he does, but the posters can also tone down the attitude a bit too. Help him help you. Help HIM help YOU...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 6 on 1/29/2004 3:24 AM >
| | | | Ok, I hear all you guys, and I'm learning here, so I'm going to tone things down and be more tolerant. All I ask is that if you have an issue with something I do, please send me a PM and we can discuss this rationally. If we still can't resolve it to your satisfaction, we can get some of the other mods involved. There's no need to fill all these threads with all this arguing over stuff.
Truce?
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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stealthy
You got a problem bro?
| | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 7 on 1/29/2004 3:28 AM >
| | | | Posted by Shane
Ok, I hear all you guys, and I'm learning here, so I'm going to tone things down and be more tolerant. All I ask is that if you have an issue with something I do, please send me a PM and we can discuss this rationally. If we still can't resolve it to your satisfaction, we can get some of the other mods involved. There's no need to fill all these threads with all this arguing over stuff.
Truce?
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Most Certainly. I (and hopefully many others) am glad to hear that you will "tone it down", or so to speak. And you have a point- filling x-amount threads with bullshit is useless- this can be resolved via PM's
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 8 on 1/29/2004 3:38 AM >
| | | | I want to step in to defend Shane as well. I've noticed that he seems to have his tolerance level set slightly lower than the average of the other mods, but he still moderates the same types of offences and for the same reasons as the rest of us. I haven't ever seen him delete something at random or for no perceivable reason. He deletes the same type of things I would delete, and in the same kinds of circumstances, but he just does it to a slightly higher standard.
Not that this is bad, as it keeps the forums a bit cleaner and more in line. Now that it has been brought up, I'll say that he could stand to be a touch more lenient, but his line of thought is right on.
If any moderator does something you don't like, please confront them (politely) by private message. If you don't say anything, the moderator probably will have no clue you objected. We are all-powerful fearsome moderators, but Av is still working on the moderator telepathy plugin. When it comes to this kind of thing, open communication is good.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Carrie@HPA
Location: Stuck in Hell.. Still!
Gender: Female
Death, Distruction and Chaos.. At Your Service.
| | | | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 9 on 1/29/2004 4:21 AM >
| | | | I don't know if it was Shane or someone else of the many Mod's out there. I was just posting an opinion that I think it's good to give praise when it's deserved. I've made several comments in regards to peoples pictures or funny jokes and had them deleted for something like "Good job, this is an awesome shot". I don't blame anyone at all, I'm just saying I don't see the problem but then again I'm also not a Mod.
Yes, I'm a bitch but we all knew that.
~*Carrie*~ Co-Founder Haunted Pennsylvania "Because we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way" |
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HauntedPA
Location: Anywhere and Everywhere
Gender: Female
What do you mean the rum is gone?!
| | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 10 on 1/29/2004 4:29 AM >
| | | | Posted by Shane
Ok, I hear all you guys, and I'm learning here, so I'm going to tone things down and be more tolerant. All I ask is that if you have an issue with something I do, please send me a PM and we can discuss this rationally. If we still can't resolve it to your satisfaction, we can get some of the other mods involved. There's no need to fill all these threads with all this arguing over stuff.
Truce?
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That was pretty much the point of the entire thread here. Although, I will say that my original post is from a feeling that is given from many users. Many, may have been too afraid to say something or weren't sure how to go about it. I figured that maybe a public forum to see if there really is a problem or if it's just something that was an overall feeling was needed. Mainly because a lot of people were saying things and getting upset about things without confronting you personally about them.
Btw, I just found the other thread where you said you were going to work on the certain things in the mod dept. For that I commend you. It was just something I noticed and spoke out upon for the sake of myself others who did not do so or who were afraid to.
Hopefully all this nonsense will be out of everyones system soon.
(did that make any sense?  )
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Noah Vale
Location: Portland, Or
It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay
| | | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 11 on 1/29/2004 4:45 AM >
| | | | In defense of Shane, I find most of what he deletes to be justified and I also do not see any pattern or vendetta against any one person. As for deleting posts like, "great shot," "lol," and other various one liners; that is what the private messages are for. It's just as fast posting in the forum and gets your point across just as well, if not better. They clutter up the forum, and don't forget, some people are still running 56K.
As for those of you with delusions of persecution; ya'll need to seek psychiatric counsel. That is a telltale sign of schizophrenia.
"Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. |
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Mike Dijital
  
UEDB Moderator
Location: Boston MA.
Gender: Male
UE ver. 1.0
| | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 12 on 1/29/2004 4:47 AM >
|  | | | im just shutting up cause Jester asked me to and I respect Jester,
and thats the only reason. im a mod and admin of a multisite forum, we let topics go off kilter all the time, and guess what ,
the server hasn't melted down, no one died, and urbex hasn't dried up
this is the last thing i will post about this.
www.deggi5.com / www.mikedijital.com |
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Ninjalicious
Gone, but always with us
Location: Toronto
| | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 13 on 1/29/2004 3:03 PM >
| | | | While a few threads may have been locked prematurely instead of being nudged back on topic, I agree with the policy of deleting posts that don't even contain a full sentence. It helps keep this place from descending to the level of a chatroom. If you have nothing to say except "awesome shot" or "hilarious", that's really only going to be interesting to you and the poster, and it's best sent by private mail. This place does sometimes get pretty cluttery.
Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org
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F A S T
Location: Oakland, CA
Gender: Male
Coastal Wind
| | | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 14 on 1/29/2004 3:07 PM >
| | | | Shanes has deleted lots of my posts, and all of them were justified. Once a guy wrote "just to clarify, sxe means straight edge, and yes and some people are stupid enough to think sxe is sexy"
to which I qouted and replied
Damnit!
It is those one liners that sort of degrade the level of things here. However, if things get a little bit off topic, thats how the flow of natural conversation goes. But as long as things are lenient in the Other section, then its alright with me I guess.
As for Shane, he still has sufficient cool points.
UEXplorer
F A S T |
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The Hitman's Daughter
Account Closed
Location: ottawa, canada
Gender: Female
hot pavement.
| | | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 15 on 1/29/2004 5:39 PM >
| | | | Shane is the first person I met on this forum, he made me feel welcome, and he's always been really good to me. He has deleted a lot of my posts, most of which warrented deletion in hindsight... *shrug*... It's annoying, getting those little private messages saying "I've deleted one of your posts", but i don't see it as some sort of moderator reign of terror. I think the only time I was actually angry was when he deleted Mike Digital's photos from a thread. I thought he should have just moved the post to the proper thread, but that was before I knew mods couldn't move singular posts.
richellesart.com
From now on and until the end of time, "Hip To Be Square" will conjure images of bloody bodies being hacked apart with axes.
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the_big_one
Location: Whitby
Gender: Male
The World Is Yours
| | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 16 on 1/29/2004 11:01 PM >
| | | | I just had a look at everyone's points, and I suppose there are two sides to this story... If anything more threads should be deleted, the ones that some people discuss openly about places and times, this is an open website and it is more then likely that some "security personnel" do check up on the boards. At the same time encouraging posts and some slightly off topic posts shouldn't be seen as too much of a problem, they may be interesting or amusing to other explorers. I guess it depends on the Moderators whether or not this is more business then pleasure. That's just my opinion, maybe some reviewing is in order?
"The First Step To Forgetting, Is Destroying All The Evidence..." |
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stealthy
You got a problem bro?
| | Re: Good Explorer...Horrid Moderator
<Reply # 17 on 1/29/2004 11:10 PM >
| | | | Maybe it is possible to close this subject. Shane agreed to tone down his post-deleting, and if all of you would agree to shut up for a while and see how everything goes now, maybe you will see that Shane isn't such a bad guy- just misunderstood. Remember, He is still a newbie (no offense shane) at moderating such a large forum. It isn't his fault, he wasn't breaking any forum rules - most of you were. He indeed did delete a few posts prematurely, but that was in the past! Can't we all just forget about the past, and think about the present and the future - where Shane agreed to cut down on his post-deleting. I got un-mad once Shane PM'ed me, and told me his side. The fact is, I feel sorry for shane- many forum members are giving him shit simply because he is doing his job. Hey! Why don't any of you try to be a mod of a large site such as this one? Then you might understand how hard it can be at times to be a mod. You get shit from someone for deleting their off-topic post, when it really was off-topic. So, again, can't we all just be friends? Shane agreed to tone down his post-deleting, and won't you all agree to shut up and give shane another chance? God knows he gave many of you one, so why not give him one?
[EDIT: Thank you for locking this thread, whoever did so]
[last edit 1/30/2004 12:10 AM by stealthy - edited 1 times]
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