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 Samurai
      
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
 |  | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 20 on 1/31/2008 2:50 AM >
|  | | | Posted by blackhawk
Zee Micro is back!
Industrial sites rule; there are too many "empty" asylum shoots here on UER while some of civilized man's greatest marvels lay rusting away... forgotten by almost all.
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i work in a marvel of man. If my mill were closed tomorrow and abandoned, what mysteries it would hold. Factories are not so much about what was made as who made it. I mean, newspapers sitting on desks, stray boots and hardhats, the odd safety glasses... these are pieces of lives left behind. What did these people do when the job left them?
that's the meat and potatoes of an industrial location.
Asylums, hospitals and houses key more off emotion, that lingering, resonating emotion of the people who lived there. I think that it's a whole different vibe.
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micro
 
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 21 on 1/31/2008 2:59 AM >
| | | | Posted by Air 33
...so between not wanting photograph but rather appreciate certain locations, why would you find one artifact more interesting then the other? Purely personal? If were gonna talk about actual uses items have, not just photogenic places/things -- why did you say that the scale is not as interesting as wheelchair? |
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I'd rather look at a photo of a wheelchair that's presented in a way that emphasizes its importance moreso than I would a bunch of snaps of industrial artifacts. In the case of Argonian's photo, it's the only wheelchair shot I've seen where the chair has some human-like qualities to the point where it emphasizes its past use. So yeah.. it does seem more interesting than a photo of a Toledo scale or a bunch of valves or anything else that's just treated as "stuff." You might think I'm being hypocritical after just posting a photo with one of these scales in it, but the subject isn't the scale, it's the workspace itself. There's a difference.
| You know they are both are the same things, items used for specific purpose, which are both now discarded. Their life cycle is gone, and sitting here arguing about why a wooden wheelchair is more interesting then say a bunch of bottles in a chemistry lab, boilers, creepy dolls in an auditorium, or pouring over old maps or even Toledo scales also doesn't get us any closer to why "photographers here aren't capable of convincing anyone other than themselves as to why things are interesting".... because so far all that's gone on here is "I prefer this to that"... |
Again, it comes down to how the subject matter is presented. Despite the fact that I like industrial locations, I don't actually spend much time looking at industrial photography. I'm a bigger fan of photos that try to prove that something I wouldn't normally find interesting is worth looking at more carefully. A lot of the stuff I see taken by urban explorers (and other people) just seems indifferent to the viewer. So maybe that's part of the reason why we don't always "get the appeal" of certain things- because the photographer's doing a poor job of pitching it.
Anyways.. it was just a fleeting thought I had after I read your post and only because I'm pretty sure that you've been to about as many asylums as me- which is to say maybe one or less. Feel free to make this as circular as you want. If there's any "I prefer this to that" going on here it's only in terms of presentation and not subject matter. I'm much more interested in talking about what makes a photograph interesting to people other than ourselves than I am engaging in a wheelchair VS scale flamewar.
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 22 on 1/31/2008 3:15 AM >
| | | | Posted by Samurai
i work in a marvel of man. If my mill were closed tomorrow and abandoned, what mysteries it would hold. Factories are not so much about what was made as who made it. I mean, newspapers sitting on desks, stray boots and hardhats, the odd safety glasses... these are pieces of lives left behind. What did these people do when the job left them?
that's the meat and potatoes of an industrial location.
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Yup. It's easy to get distracted by the mechanical elements of these places, but I find it pretty hard to ignore the things that you're talking about. I mean, in a lot of cases, people would have spent as much (if not more) time at work in these places than inside their own homes. It's why I always find it odd when people say things like "I don't like industrial locations. I prefer places with more human presence."
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 23 on 1/31/2008 3:44 AM >
| | | | Posted by Samurai
that's the meat and potatoes of an industrial location.
Asylums, hospitals and houses key more off emotion, that lingering, resonating emotion of the people who lived there. I think that it's a whole different vibe.
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That's another reason why people should rag less on those who UE houses. They can be interesting (I guess) if they have lingering elements around. Other then that, its just like an empty warehouse -- empty.
Micro - talking about subject matter being presented in an interesting way is different. But that's a pretty individual preference, which is hard to quantify.
I like this photograph, because it makes me do a double take, to reassess what's going on. Showing this same shot to others has led them so say "what is it, I don't like it, its not clear.."
But someone might find this evocative (as images with people usually are):
I still don't get the appeal of wheelchairs. if anything about an asylum is interesting -- its the layout for me, and the space. I've been in a few but not the NE ones.
My friend shot this. Its a wheelchair party, its the only one I've eve been partial too,
but i find more of my thoughts drifting to the toothbrushes... and WTF happened to them!
What i never tire of:
[last edit 1/31/2008 3:59 AM by Air - edited 2 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| |  | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 24 on 1/31/2008 7:02 AM >
| | | | Posted by Samurai
i work in a marvel of man. If my mill were closed tomorrow and abandoned, what mysteries it would hold. Factories are not so much about what was made as who made it. I mean, newspapers sitting on desks, stray boots and hardhats, the odd safety glasses... these are pieces of lives left behind. What did these people do when the job left them?
that's the meat and potatoes of an industrial location.
Asylums, hospitals and houses key more off emotion, that lingering, resonating emotion of the people who lived there. I think that it's a whole different vibe.
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Sam, you work in a god damn candy store!
You lucky, chemical impregnated bastard!
Posted by Air 33
What i never tire of:
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What is this? A cistern, a sewage treatment chamber? Are those concrete "floats"?
That one of the strangest images I've ever seen, and never saw until today.
ha-ha, the wheelchair party image is great!
Endless empty halls and rooms are such a bore.
Nothing like a huge industrial plant with it's machinery intact; they are vibrantly alive, or least they were at one time.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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argonian
Location: Toronto, ON
Gender: Female
"Now with added cats!"
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 25 on 1/31/2008 1:05 PM >
| | | | Air, I really think you should credit the people whose images you took. I can tell one is dskant's, but I am not sure about the others.
Blackhawk that is a picture of an instillation in Eastern State Penn. Guac posted a picture of that room, from another angle here http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=52391
[last edit 1/31/2008 1:06 PM by argonian - edited 1 times]
Que pasa, baby? |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 26 on 1/31/2008 1:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by argonian
Air, I really think you should credit the people whose images you took. I can tell one is dskant's, but I am not sure about the others.
Blackhawk that is a picture of an instillation in Eastern State Penn. Guac posted a picture of that room, from another angle here http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=52391
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Ha-ha, I was thinking it might be a ceiling, but there wasn't enough perspective for me to gauge it correctly. So it's not football stadium huge...
Still a very strange room... looks like part of a nightmare. Or a lost Star Trek episode; The Flying North America Plaster Parasites.
That's one bad ass room.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 27 on 2/1/2008 3:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
Actually, on further reflection, the video is a tremendously apt allegory about the experience of "exploring" a building like Symes.
The ghostly woman, you see, represents the urban exploration sublime. You may chase her, you may spy a fleeting glimpse as she disappears into a moldering stairwell, but all you come away with are a handful of dreadfully clichéd photographs that tell you nothing about where she came from and who she's having coffee with tomorrow.
Ante Kovac is a genius of our time.
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You can say that about any location of exploration. Take the average drain. You're walking in a single direction with nothing but some water by your feet, without even artifacts like scales or cranes. As if an image of a person walking around in the dark has meaning when it has done many thousands of times. Oh, this drain is tall, this one has old bricks, this one has a cool junction, I've redefine my life! You come away with clichéd long exposures of oversaturated colours, often with the token silhouette.
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 28 on 2/1/2008 4:01 AM >
| | | | Posted by argonian
Air, I really think you should credit the people whose images you took. I can tell one is dskant's, but I am not sure about the others.
Blackhawk that is a picture of an instillation in Eastern State Penn. Guac posted a picture of that room, from another angle here http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&threadid=52391
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I never stated they were mine, but its the wonderful work of a fellow flickerite Ursula: http://www.flickr....72157594313345564/
I'm sure you've seen her around.
The toothbrush shot is from dsankt.
Blackhawk, I don't get the significance of the instillation, but its purely visual and that's good enough for me.
[last edit 2/1/2008 4:40 AM by Air - edited 1 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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kowalski
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 29 on 2/1/2008 4:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by Hi/Po
You can say that about any location of exploration. Take the average drain. You're walking in a single direction with nothing but some water by your feet, without even artifacts like scales or cranes. |
Hmmm, no, I think that would be a different video : P
As if an image of a person walking around in the dark has meaning when it has done many thousands of times. Oh, this drain is tall, this one has old bricks, this one has a cool junction, I've redefine my life! You come away with clichéd long exposures of oversaturated colours, often with the token silhouette.
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Actually, I'm constantly impressed by the diversity of work that drain photographers around the world put out every week, month, year. It's fascinating, and the most exciting thing is that new places, new environments are constantly being revealed all the time.
But you're right, Symes is like a drain. An Oakville drain.
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Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 30 on 2/1/2008 5:45 AM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
Actually, I'm constantly impressed by the diversity of work that drain photographers around the world put out every week, month, year. It's fascinating, and the most exciting thing is that new places, new environments are constantly being revealed all the time.
But you're right, Symes is like a drain. An Oakville drain.
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It's great that there actually is a diversity of work, but even so, that isn't evidence that "the experience of 'exploring'" was any more meaningful, it was simply portrayed better after the fact. I've seen cliche photos not just of Oakville drains, but of the tailraces.
The experience of exploration doesn't depend on the location but on the person who's experiencing it. The idea that you can come up with a hierarchy of locations, I think is just a residue from the way most people got into the hobby, looking for the most interesting perceptive experience possible, not really considering any reflection beyond this sort of esoteric entertainment.
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kowalski
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 31 on 2/1/2008 6:24 AM >
| | | | Posted by Hi/Po
I've seen cliche photos not just of Oakville drains |
That's interesting. To my knowledge, no one's felt compelled to take cliche photographs of anything underground in Oakville on account of the fact that there's basically nothing large and/or interesting enough there to make it worth the effort. From what we know of it, Oakville drainage is basically Mississauga in miniature. Maybe if I'd lived in Oakville in the summer of 2003 instead of Burlington, we'd have a few dark and oversaturated shots of backbreaking, forgettable tributaries of the Wedgewood Diversion Canal. Be assured that the draining universe cries with you on that one.
While your point that we shouldn't take the justifiability of anything for granted is well taken, your comments regarding underground exploration and underground photography might have more weight if you knew more about what you are talking about it.
You also appear to think that I only like or only photograph drains, or that I somehow hold drain photography to a different standard than other 'exploration' photographs. Neither is the case. I'm a bit baffled as to why you've waded into this, since as far as I can tell you don't seem to strongly identify with photography at all. I guess you just really like Symes, and I'm sorry if you feel slighted regarding my less than glowing appraisal of your favourite waste transfer dock.
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Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 32 on 2/1/2008 7:17 AM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
That's interesting. To my knowledge, no one's felt compelled to take cliche photographs of anything underground in Oakville on account of the fact that there's basically nothing large and/or interesting enough there to make it worth the effort. From what we know of it, Oakville drainage is basically Mississauga in miniature. Maybe if I'd lived in Oakville in the summer of 2003 instead of Burlington, we'd have a few dark and oversaturated shots of backbreaking, forgettable tributaries of the Wedgewood Diversion Canal. Be assured that the draining universe cries with you on that one.
While your point that we shouldn't take the justifiability of anything for granted is well taken, your comments regarding underground exploration and underground photography might have more weight if you knew more about what you are talking about it.
You also appear to think that I only like or only photograph drains, or that I somehow hold drain photography to a different standard than other 'exploration' photographs. Neither is the case. I'm a bit baffled as to why you've waded into this, since as far as I can tell you don't seem to strongly identify with photography at all. I guess you just really like Symes, and I'm sorry if you feel slighted regarding my less than glowing appraisal of your favourite waste transfer dock.
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My comments assumed that Oakville drains referenced generic concrete tunnels. I don't think you only like drains, but who are you to single out locations and criticize them? You're no better than some guy who buds in to a group of house explorers to tell them "you guys are silly, houses are boring!". And if I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to drains because I haven't logged as many hours as you have, how exactly can you chime and degrade the locations yourself? I don't care if it was Hearn, the Brickworks or Bethlehem Steel, I'd react the same way.
None of what you assume in that last paragraph is acceptably accurate, and it's frankly surprising. Where did I assume that you held drain photography to different standard? I used drains as an example because you came off as criticizing above ground urban exploration exclusively, with its moldering stairwell. So you're not it now appears, my apologies. I think it boils down to what I wrote in the above paragraph.
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 33 on 2/1/2008 5:09 PM >
| | | | Not that I think it's the most interesting place in the world, but Symes does have a layer of history to it that makes up for its lack of visual charms. I mean, it's not exactly my thing right now, but given its close proximity to the stockyards and its construction date, I think there's an opportunity there to learn something about the area and early waste management systems. As dull as it can appear to be, it will always have that much going for it.
If you take the time to walk down the old road where the old metal bins are, you'll find that the banks of the ravine are lined with antique bottles and cans as well as a whole lot of ash from the incinerators. You'll find a lot of material that looks as though it was dumped there during the 30s or 40s. It's kind of difficult/fun to climb to the top of the bank because of this. You have to pull yourself up using whatever trees are there because you can't really get any traction with your feet.
Also, it's not clear as to what purpose the older building on the west side of the property originally served. I can't remember the exact date on it, but it would predates the main building by a decade or more. Then there's the large, monolithic concrete structure that's nestled adjacent to that, alongside the ravine. Its purpose was never really clear to me and I'd love to be able to see more archival photos of the property to be able to find out how it fit in with everything else.
So yeah, like a lot of things, Symes is probably as interesting or as boring as you want to make it. It's definitely not the most photogenic place out there, but in terms of its value to an urban explorer (in the traditional sense), I think it's probably about as good as anything else in the area.
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kowalski
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 34 on 2/1/2008 5:28 PM >
| | | | Now that's exactly the sort of defense and valuation of Symes that I can appreciate.
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 35 on 2/1/2008 5:32 PM >
| | | | Plus, it has a scale.
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Boffo
Moderator
Location: Smithers, BC
Gender: Male
HONK! HONK!
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 36 on 2/2/2008 1:03 AM >
| | | | In defence of Oakville's awful drainage system I found this one which was pretty good looking from the outside. I couldn't get in because of a lack of tools to bypass the gates, not being anorexic and me and my mate not able to life the manhole.
Here's a lockpick. It might be handy if you, the master of unlocking, take it with you. |
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 37 on 2/2/2008 2:55 AM >
| | | |
could be interesting.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 38 on 2/2/2008 3:15 AM >
| | | | Personal preferences in terms of locations are a lot like the ethics of UE.
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Calvin Kaneda
Location: West Coast Ninja/East Coast Pirate.
Gender: Male
| | Re: What's old is new again, Symes
<Reply # 39 on 2/23/2008 7:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by bonnie&clyde
That's their job. All they do is drive & chopper around looking for locations. professionally Explorers. They are bound to find everything eventually. Then do the research & get the permission needed to make it all safe n legal. I wanna be a location scout.
I'd bet there are a few film scouts that are members on this site.
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That is one of my day jobs.
"By the prick of my thumb something wicked this way comes..."
"Under the cover of night, I travel across rooftops while you dream of adventure."
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