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2024-05-12 16:43:51
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 Caput_58
    
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Elevator Access
< on 1/4/2004 10:23 PM >
|  | | | A couple of elevator related issues came up on my last exploration. I started trying to use a firefighter's elevator key ('drop key') to access shafts. Pretty good success, except at the level where the car was. This makes sense, since the car's driving vanes should already have unlatched the interlock. But the doors were locked shut. So whats the next step? How do you open hoistway doors when the car is at that level? Using the drop key, I could feel some sort of spring loaded button straight in, but pushing on it did nothing to release the doors.
Later that day, I found myself in the very bottom of yet another elevator shaft. I thought it would be relatively simple to open the hoistway doors from the inside. I thought wrong. My friend and I spent a good 45 minutes trying to pry open either of the ground level doors. We were able to release the interlock, as well as turn a d-ring to release a 2nd lock. Using a wedge, some brick and an improvised prybar, we could open the doors maybe 4 inches, but resistance was increasing. It seems like the 2nd door (further from the opening) is locked or jammed, but we couldn't come up with a way to free it. Are we missing a 3rd lock, or is it just jammed from rust/debris. Is there a good way to free it short of taking things apart with a socket set?
Its possible that the doors were somehow secured from the outside, though it seems like the big caged door they erected would have been sufficient. All the same, we may have to climb to the 2nd floor, which is why I'm really hoping for a simple solution.
In a related vein, I noticed in the bottom of the elevator shaft, in the center a large brick building, slightly below ground level, that I had great cell phone reception. Comforting to know that I could always call for help if the car broke loose, fell three stories, and my mangled body was pinned in the resulting wreckage.
Caput_58
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EvilSpork
Location: Miami, FL
Gender: Male
Behold the power of cheese!
| | |  | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 1 on 1/5/2004 7:20 AM >
| | | | On most elevators I've seen, if the car is at that level and the driving vanes have released the interlock, you should just be able to force them open. It depends on how the thing was installed and what type of door operator it has, I guess.
It's worked on the Schindler hydraulic squirt-cans I've gotten stuck in before (my college has terrible maintenance). It would somehow fail to figure out where the 1st level was and just ungracefully shut down, and at that point, I could pry the door open by hand.
My guess is those doors were jammed by rust or debris. If you can get it open 4", it should open the rest of the way. Try WD-40!
Mmmm... the sweet smell of damp concrete. <3 |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 2 on 1/5/2004 7:55 AM >
| | | | if this is the kind of elevator door that I am used to (normal semi-modern sliding metal door) then it should open all the way once you get the safety interlock opened, which is usually just a matter of lifting upwards on the vertical rod.
It sounds to me like the track has debris in it or the counterweight that helps the door might be snagging on something.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Caput_58
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 3 on 1/5/2004 10:14 AM >
| | | | Ya, we were going with the debris theory; we tried to remove as much as possible given the conditions, but no luck. They absolutely refused to budge past 4", with dramatically increased resistance (pry bar bent, wooden wedge deformed). It was enough to force the door slightly askew. This happened on two sets of doors (same shaft, same level), both times on the 2nd door. I dunno, perhaps its something jamming up the harder to see top track. The building was abandoned this year, but the elevators seem to have been 'retired' whenever they last broke down (80's?). So I suppose there could be some welds on the exterior of the 2nd door. I dunno, I'm starting to think the only solution is a socket set. Disassembling the door shouldn't be too hard on the ground level. But if I end up having to lead climb up to the 2nd, its going to suck for me and my belayer ("Rock!").
The first elevator I mentioned continues to baffle me. The doors should open easily, since the car has already tripped the interlocks. There is no way it could have been secured from the inside, unless the technician climbed out the top hatch and then down the shaft afterwards. I can only imagine that its either jammed (the other two hoistway doors opened easily enough), or theres someother lock on the elevator (inner) doors I need to trip. Incidentally, this elevator was put in a mental asylum's old stairway shaft. I don't know if you've seen those 'anti-suicide' fences before in a stairway, but basically, the whole shaft is still lined with fence. If I ever get to the day where life has no value, I guess I could try to climb up the fencing to the the car and access to roof hatch.
Um, which reminds me that I should include a disclaimer. Elevators are frickin dangerous. In general, a person has a 50/50 chance of surviving a 30' fall. Fall alone, and that pretty much goes up to 100%. Messing with running elevators is probably slightly smarter than surfing subways. Messing with abandoned elevators is like walking on rotten flooring, only with worse consequences when something breaks. Just know the risks.
Caput_58
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Piper
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 4 on 1/6/2004 5:31 PM >
| | | | Caput
Read your post, new to the forum so please bear with me. If the elevator is at the same level of the doors you are trying to open it will be quite difficult to open. There is a "clutch" on the car door, when arriving at that level the clutch will enclose what is referred to as the pickup rollers on the hall door. If power is on the clutch with close on the pick up rollers which in turn will move a push rod up releasing the interlock and opening the doors. If the is no power you might be able to open the doors slightly but you are then pushing open both sets of doors and the drive arms of the door operator. Depending on the operator and door hanger type they may also be locked out for safety purposes.
Piper
It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase. |
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Caput_58
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 5 on 1/6/2004 10:58 PM >
| | | |
Piper, that makes alot of sense to me. I would find it believable that there is increased resistance from the engaged motor, though I think in this case, a lock on the car has also engaged (from the lack of power or whatever). After all, such a lock would keep panicky passengers from prying open the doors when trapped by a power failure.
Of course, I'm still sure what a good work around would be. Not that I have a compelling need to get in the car, but I'm stubborn about wanting to explore all I can.
Caput_58
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Freak
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 6 on 1/6/2004 11:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by Caput_58
After all, such a lock would keep panicky passengers from prying open the doors when trapped by a power failure.
Caput_58
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That elevator must be more modern that what's in my dorm, you can pry the doors open from the inside while the car is moving. Once they're open more than about 4 inches the car jerks to a stop between floors (some people used this to grafitti up the concrete between floors for some reason). The roof hatches in our elevators are locked, but can be popped open with a swift punch. This also makes the car stop, and causes a bell to ring until the hatch is closed.
What are you using for the drop key? I use bent coathangers, but sometimes the hole is covered by a lockable insert.
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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Caput_58
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 7 on 1/7/2004 1:10 AM >
| | | | I'm surprised theres a roof hatch at all... apparently they tend not to install them anymore (or cover them with panelling) because most elevator fatalities are due to panicky people trying to escape out the hatch.
I'm actually using a firefighter's drop key... one of the advantages of working with firefighters.
Using it really reminds me of picking a lock... solving a mechanical puzzle blind, working by feel alone. Like picking a lock, I'm still pretty mediocre at it.
Caput_58
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EvilSpork
Location: Miami, FL
Gender: Male
Behold the power of cheese!
| | | | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 8 on 1/7/2004 8:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by Caput_58
... I think in this case, a lock on the car has also engaged (from the lack of power or whatever). After all, such a lock would keep panicky passengers from prying open the doors when trapped by a power failure.
Caput_58
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Third edit, maybe I'll get it right this time *g*
It may very well have a hatch restrictor, which is locking the cab doors.
This consists of a spring-loaded solenoid that drops a pin into the path of the door hanger bracket on the cab, preventing the doors from opening past about 4". When the car is within range of the floor, the solenoid is energized to unlock the door.
Apparently, hatch restrictor systems (such as the Adams Hatchlatch) have a backup battery to unlock the door for about 4 hours if AC power fails and the elevator is within an 'unlock zone' at a floor.
Better hatch restrictors feature release buttons mounted various places on the elevator car. The Adams Hatchlatch does NOT have them! Thanks to that lovely design, I suspect that hatch restrictors will be quickly going away in new installations - see this article.
Here, I've noticed that all elevators are simply installed with the shaft arranged such that if you pry the elevator cab doors open, you're looking at a steel plate lining the shaft. The open-frame elevators at the Metrorail stations have a glass plate blocking the door opening area and continuing all the way up to below platform level. I don't know how it may be in other buildings to necessitate the use of a hatch restrictor.
[last edit 1/7/2004 8:11 AM by EvilSpork - edited 2 times]
Mmmm... the sweet smell of damp concrete. <3 |
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Piper
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 9 on 1/7/2004 6:01 PM >
| | | | I work in the elevator industry doing mostly renovations to cab interiors but have been involved in new construction also. Read the article regarding the elevators at the World Trade Centre. Hard to understand why the Hatch Latch was installed in the first place. As mentioned in a previous post, if the car door is opened between floors you are usually looking at a sheet of steel called fascia which is required by code. It is there to reduce the distance between the elevator platform and shaft wall to prevent passengers from trying to get out and get injuried. It is mentioned that one passenger on the morning of the 11th had to move a piece of steel from the doorway to get out. Depending on the code requirements at the time of construction the fascia may not have been required (very doubtful). This was more then likely added on as an additional safety feature.
With regards to roof top exits, required on all elevators. Again depending on where you live, they are usually secured with wing nuts but in some areas a keyed lock. Some areas require a side exit (New York) if cars are located beside each other. This way if one car is disabled the other can pull along side and with the exits across from each other, passengers can be then transfer over to the waiting car.
Back to the Hatch Latch, as a result of what was discovered, it's doubtful it will see much use.
Piper
It's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase. |
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EvilSpork
Location: Miami, FL
Gender: Male
Behold the power of cheese!
| | | | Re: Elevator Access
<Reply # 10 on 2/24/2004 2:16 AM >
| | | | Hmm... here, I've only seen elevators with either the keyed lock, or the hatch bolted shut from the top of the cab (such that someone would have to enter the shaft to open it). Is that what you mean by secured by wing nuts - from the outside?
I've also seen a few with glass cabs that have a glass top with no visible hatch or removable pane... Yeah, might suck to get stuck in one of those.
Mmmm... the sweet smell of damp concrete. <3 |
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