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UER Forum > Archived US: Pacific Northwest > Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma (Viewed 911 times)
UEinthe253 






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Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
< on 3/22/2007 8:53 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Ahh! I can't believe what I read in the Tacoma News Tribune this morning. Some vandals and taggers have been hitting construction sites and various other places in Tacoma lately. Hard. Because of this the "powers that be" (thanks, Ninj!!) have collaborated with the municipality to make carrying spray paint illegal. So watch out if you tag, I would highly recommend that you dont. It defaces the building, and besides, what would Ninjalicious do?

UEinthe253 






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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma *cough, revision* (Federal Way) *cough*
<Reply # 1 on 3/23/2007 2:00 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Er. My mistake. Its actually not Tacoma, but Federal Way, rather. Sorry!

Agent Skelly 

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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 2 on 3/23/2007 12:02 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Eh....are you implying you tag there?

UEinthe253 






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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 3 on 3/24/2007 3:10 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Of course not. I dont tag. Its just really a drag that they'd impose such a stupid rule on the entirety of the public, while a percentage of them which is quite likely far lesser than 1 are the ones who are actually causing the trouble. Additionally, I believe this new revision to the law now states that the owner of the property that was tagged must clean the graffiti up within 3 days. If it is not gone by that time, then they will be fined $100 for every day after that until they get rid of it. Therefore they also make the owner responsible, and impose their will on 100% of the population, while <1% are actually responsible for this. Lawmakers can be so.... Non-commonsensical. (I love Ninj's words). Also, if you noticed at the end of my post I discourage any one from tagging. So, I actually was trying to make it clear that I do not tag, and that I am against it. I will however, not stop others from doing it, as Ninj's book AAA, has made it quite clear to me that it is great for navigation in places such as sewers, but I would not allow someone from my group to do it while in a UE. That would only serve to annoy me and risk the entire group for charges of trespassing, supplemented by vandalism, even if only it was one person doing it. I've never actually explored any sites yet, but I'm getting around to it... Lol...

Deuterium 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 4 on 3/27/2007 11:18 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Don't blame the government. They're trying to do what's best for the community.

Blame criminals. You know graffitti vandal people? Report them. People that are up to no good tend to cause freedom to be taken away from other people.

UEinthe253 






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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 5 on 3/29/2007 12:41 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I agree with you, but Ninj's book says that tagging can be helpful for navigation in places such as sewers. I would side with you though, in the case of someone tagging for the stupid reasons described above.

Agent Skelly 

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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 6 on 3/29/2007 12:54 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Nikkoli714
I agree with you, but Ninj's book says that tagging can be helpful for navigation in places such as sewers. I would side with you though, in the case of someone tagging for the stupid reasons described above.


That is not tagging really....its an navigational aid.

aaronni 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 7 on 3/29/2007 2:44 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
And Navigational Aids can be placed with an oversized black Sharpie marker rather than spray paint so unless someone's a tagger then there's no "good" reason to carry spray paint while UEing.

never know until you go
BioHazard 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 8 on 3/29/2007 3:26 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Post by AaronNi

unless someone's a tagger then there's no "good" reason to carry spray paint while UEing.


Depends on the place. Most places I go to are abandoned enough for no one to care about tags. I agree that 99% of tags are pure shyte but I've been in some buildings covered in extremely well accomplished graffiti. I will remember some of the rooms until the day I die.



I don't see why spray cans wouldn't be as legitimate as a camera or a painter's brush when it comes to what we consider to be an artistic tool. With this in mind, baning spray cans would be like banning paint brushes.



Deuterium 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 9 on 3/29/2007 6:12 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by BioHazard


Depends on the place. Most places I go to are abandoned enough for no one to care about tags. I agree that 99% of tags are pure shyte but I've been in some buildings covered in extremely well accomplished graffiti. I will remember some of the rooms until the day I die.

http://farm1.stati...7_56a110df3b_m.jpg

I don't see why spray cans wouldn't be as legitimate as a camera or a painter's brush when it comes to what we consider to be an artistic tool. With this in mind, baning spray cans would be like banning paint brushes.




A camera doesn't destroy the original look and take it away from the next group of people that visits the site. Calling graffiti vandalism an art is the same as keying your car and calling it "line art".

Ban on spray paint was triggered by the fact most grafitti vandalisms were done with spray paint. If paint brushes were the primary means of vandalism, they would've targeted them rather than spray paint.

BioHazard 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 10 on 3/29/2007 12:01 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Please bear in mind that I'm speaking of "structured" graffiti, something with structure and thought put behind it.

A camera doesn't destroy the original look and take it away from the next group of people that visits the site. Calling graffiti vandalism an art is the same as keying your car and calling it "line art".


Just as a building decays naturally over time and changes its original look, I think that graffiti can often be part of that natural process. I find it can be one of the purest forms of art. There's usually no audience and little recocnition, so the artist is doing this mostly for and from themselves, there's no will to make a profit from it, there's no pretention, the artists don't use this as a way to "live forever" since the art isn't permanent, someone will eventually paint over it or the wall will get destroyed.


Ban on spray paint was triggered by the fact most grafitti vandalisms were done with spray paint. If paint brushes were the primary means of vandalism, they would've targeted them rather than spray paint.


You'll notice that in cities and neighborhoods that take the time to recognize the art and setup walls to be used for this purpose tend to have less of this "vandalism". At least in public areas, but that's why they want to ban the cans right? They really don't give a damn about the abandoned places.
[last edit 3/29/2007 12:01 PM by BioHazard - edited 1 times]

Deuterium 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 11 on 3/29/2007 1:54 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by BioHazard
Please bear in mind that I'm speaking of "structured" graffiti, something with structure and thought put behind it.



Just as a building decays naturally over time and changes its original look, I think that graffiti can often be part of that natural process. I find it can be one of the purest forms of art. There's usually no audience and little recocnition, so the artist is doing this mostly for and from themselves, there's no will to make a profit from it, there's no pretention, the artists don't use this as a way to "live forever" since the art isn't permanent, someone will eventually paint over it or the wall will get destroyed.


So, it's ok if I do something to your car or your room as with total disregard for your thoughts, as long as *I* find it structured and thoughtful?


You'll notice that in cities and neighborhoods that take the time to recognize the art and setup walls to be used for this purpose tend to have less of this "vandalism". At least in public areas, but that's why they want to ban the cans right? They really don't give a damn about the abandoned places.


I don't think that they're taking the time to "recognize the art". It's more along the line of damage control. If the walls encourage would be vandals to practice his recreational activity there and discourage criminal damage to rest of the city, it is a reason for consideration for deploying such walls.

The city and the neighbors don't like graffiti, because they're an eyesore.

urban explorers don't like graffiti vandalism,

1.) because they're an eyesore

2.) graffiti vandalism is a significant point of concern for property owners and police and degrades explorers' relationship with them as they'd likely be looked down as "vandals".


Would you consider a parking valet taking your car for an unauthorized joyride the same as entering demolition derby? He's not supposed to do either, but latter does REAL damage, just like graffiti crime.


[last edit 3/29/2007 1:55 PM by Deuterium - edited 1 times]

BioHazard 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 12 on 3/29/2007 2:55 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
You're not listening to me Deutetium and I really wish you would. I'm not condoning the use of spray cans on private buildings or on street signs or keying cars or tags in buses, trains, subways, or of what vandalism actually is;

van·dal·ism (v&#257;n'dl-&#301;z'&#601;m) Pronunciation Key
n. Willful or malicious destruction of public or private property


What I'm saying is graffiti in abandoned locations is perfectly acceptable and can be, to me, part of the decaying process, enhancing the structure's beauty and presence.

BraveUlysses 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 13 on 3/29/2007 3:07 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
The problem isn't that it is happening too much in abandoned structures or industrial property, it is that fuckwipe, white suburbanite 13 year olds who aren't out to 'express themselves' but make some sort of 'rep' by fucking up peoples property.

Tagging/murals in abandoned buildings can be absolutely stunning, because its intent is different and effort is exponentially better.

UEinthe253 






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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 14 on 3/30/2007 12:13 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Yeah, I think theres a difference between just vandalism and actual graffiti. One is to 'build a rep' or whatever while the other is actually a sincere form of art. The difference is really in the context though, some is just flat-out inappropriate.

Deuterium 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 15 on 3/30/2007 2:43 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by BioHazard
You're not listening to me Deutetium and I really wish you would. I'm not condoning the use of spray cans on private buildings or on street signs or keying cars or tags in buses, trains, subways, or of what vandalism actually is;

van·dal·ism (v&#257;n'dl-&#301;z'&#601;m) Pronunciation Key
n. Willful or malicious destruction of public or private property


What I'm saying is graffiti in abandoned locations is perfectly acceptable and can be, to me, part of the decaying process, enhancing the structure's beauty and presence.


That's your key justification. What it is to you isn't what it is. You're not in charge of deciding what form of vandalism("art" or "tag") is acceptable or not on properties you don't own.

Abandoned buildings are not in your ownership and there still is still an ownership. When graffiti criminals fuck up UE sites, to us, it's like having our museums destroyed.

Graffiti "art" is perfectly within the definition of vandalism you cited.

Act of graffiti defacement = willful
lack of permission = vandalism

Posted by Nikkoli714
Yeah, I think theres a difference between just vandalism and actual graffiti. One is to 'build a rep' or whatever while the other is actually a sincere form of art. The difference is really in the context though, some is just flat-out inappropriate.


The difference is the presence of permission. "art" is *HIGHLY* subjective and it's not the job of the legal system to interpret what art is. No permission from property owner means criminal defacement regardless of whether street vandals consider it "work of art" or "tasteless lame chicken scratch".

Defacement: intentionally altering the appearance of something without having a legal excuse to do so.


[last edit 3/30/2007 2:48 AM by Deuterium - edited 1 times]

BioHazard 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 16 on 3/30/2007 4:33 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Deuterium, it's hopeless.

colinski 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 17 on 3/30/2007 4:52 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Deuterium

That's your key justification. What it is to you isn't what it is. You're not in charge of deciding what form of vandalism("art" or "tag") is acceptable or not on properties you don't own.

*snip*

The difference is the presence of permission. "art" is *HIGHLY* subjective and it's not the job of the legal system to interpret what art is. No permission from property owner means criminal defacement regardless of whether street vandals consider it "work of art" or "tasteless lame chicken scratch".


Just to note, some walls are legal for graffiti. Take the wall in Gainesville, Florida at UF - it's a legal site for graffiti and is often repainted and decorated with fascinating (and legitimately) art. I think we would have less issue with graffiti if it were actually artistic instead of scripty looking names that read "BigKilla" or large, crudely drawn penises (whoever did that to my favorite warehouse is going to get an ass beating if I catch them there next time).

one day your life will flash before your eyes. make sure it's worth watching.
Deuterium 


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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 18 on 3/30/2007 5:32 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by BioHazard
Deuterium, it's hopeless.


See graffiti vandals vandalizing unauthorized locations? Call police and move on.


Posted by colinski


Just to note, some walls are legal for graffiti. Take the wall in Gainesville, Florida at UF - it's a legal site for graffiti and is often repainted and decorated with fascinating (and legitimately) art. I think we would have less issue with graffiti if it were actually artistic instead of scripty looking names that read "BigKilla" or large, crudely drawn penises (whoever did that to my favorite warehouse is going to get an ass beating if I catch them there next time).

I have no issue if the wall's owner and local codes are ok with it. My opposition is against ILLEGAL ones. The difference between art and crime is permission.


[last edit 3/30/2007 5:35 AM by Deuterium - edited 1 times]

Ricotta 

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Re: Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma
<Reply # 19 on 3/30/2007 11:39 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by colinski


Just to note, some walls are legal for graffiti. Take the wall in Gainesville, Florida at UF - it's a legal site for graffiti and is often repainted and decorated with fascinating (and legitimately) art.


There's a big rock in the middle of the southbound I-5 offramp loop at 56th St. that has been free game for taggers forever. Hell, my mother painted shit on that rock when she was in High School.

lol google
[last edit 3/30/2007 11:41 AM by Ricotta - edited 1 times]

UER Forum > Archived US: Pacific Northwest > Spray Paint Ban in Tacoma (Viewed 911 times)
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