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 jacksan
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Publicizing Private Space?
< on 3/21/2007 2:41 PM >
|  | | | Hi, I'm writing a story for a newspaper at McGill in Montreal. (http://www.mcgilldaily.com)
It's for a special issue on public space, and I'm writing about making private spaces more public through things like posting a couch on http://CouchSurfing.com, sharing a wi-fi connection on places like FON Network, and through urban exploration.
I have a couple questions I'd like to put to the forum. Please know that any responses may appear in print, and I'll just use your avatar name unless you supply something else. (Feel free to contact me privately if you prefer.) Cheers! Here are the questions:
Some might say urban exploring and posting photos of private or off-limits spaces for public consumption takes private space and puts into the public realm. Do you agree? Is UE a conscious act of expanding the amount of space within the public realm by exposing what's inside these massive structures and giving tips on how to get in them? Or do we do it just for the thrill?
Exploring some places can seem (from my experience) like browsing a museum. In an ideal world, should certain places be made more public, through removing legal barriers to exploration, giving guided tours, etc? Or would that just ruin the excitement?
Graffiti writers often make it to abandoned buildings long before anyone else. Why do you think that is? If graffiti is public art, then are abandoned spaces the world's first truly public art galleries?
Thanks for posting!
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MutantMandias
      
Perverse and Often Baffling
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 1 on 3/21/2007 3:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by jacksan
If graffiti is public art, then are abandoned spaces the world's first truly public art galleries?
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I predict that no one will have anything to say about this statement.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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Samurai
 
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 2 on 3/21/2007 3:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by jacksan
Hi, I'm writing a story for a newspaper at McGill in Montreal. (http://www.mcgilldaily.com)
It's for a special issue on public space, and I'm writing about making private spaces more public through things like posting a couch on http://CouchSurfing.com, sharing a wi-fi connection on places like FON Network, and through urban exploration.
I have a couple questions I'd like to put to the forum. Please know that any responses may appear in print, and I'll just use your avatar name unless you supply something else. (Feel free to contact me privately if you prefer.) Cheers! Here are the questions:
Some might say urban exploring and posting photos of private or off-limits spaces for public consumption takes private space and puts into the public realm. Do you agree? Is UE a conscious act of expanding the amount of space within the public realm by exposing what's inside these massive structures and giving tips on how to get in them? Or do we do it just for the thrill?
Exploring some places can seem (from my experience) like browsing a museum. In an ideal world, should certain places be made more public, through removing legal barriers to exploration, giving guided tours, etc? Or would that just ruin the excitement?
Graffiti writers often make it to abandoned buildings long before anyone else. Why do you think that is? If graffiti is public art, then are abandoned spaces the world's first truly public art galleries?
Thanks for posting!
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well, this is going to be a hot topic fuck you fest... i can already forsee it.
Personally, if it's well-done graffiti, well that's just fine and dandy, but if it's a bunch of white middle-class thug wannabes with a can of krylon and a bong in tow, well that's just vandalism to me. I'm sure it's vandalism period to a bunch of other people. One thing about this forum is everyone has an opinion and you're going to get them.
Graffiti is part of the 'life cycle' of an abandoned/forgotten building... As much as some people talk tough and gangsta on here about kicking a vandals ass, there's nothing you can do to stem it or stop it... deal with it.
Samurai
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Glass
Location: Chicago
as one does
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 3 on 3/21/2007 3:38 PM >
| | | | Where's ma fly swatter.
(You should do an article on how to irritate a group that's been beat up by the press too many times to count.)
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jacksan
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 4 on 3/21/2007 8:11 PM >
| | | | wow. I'm sorry for being irritating. Not my intention. I'm only trying to show UE as part of a trend of taking private spaces and putting them into the public realm. I mean, this article is to appear in the same issue as something on squatters' rights. If you think that's shitting on ya'll, please let me know how.
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MutantMandias
Perverse and Often Baffling
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 5 on 3/21/2007 8:15 PM >
| | | | I think the biggest problem is that "takes private space and puts into the public realm" sounds like about the biggest crock of shit I've heard in a long time. And I hear quite a few.
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| |  | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 6 on 3/21/2007 8:20 PM >
| | | | Morally speaking, I think that grafiti'ing a neglected building is fine so long as your art is good. It enhances the experience for me.
But from a legal standpoint it is and should be illegal.
It's kind of how I don't like smoking in restaraunts but still oppose a ban because it's a privately owned business.
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 7 on 3/21/2007 8:26 PM >
| | | | Posted by jacksan
Some might say urban exploring and posting photos of private or off-limits spaces for public consumption takes private space and puts into the public realm. Do you agree? Is UE a conscious act of expanding the amount of space within the public realm by exposing what's inside these massive structures and giving tips on how to get in them? Or do we do it just for the thrill?
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No . . . you own a piece of property, but you don't own pictures of your piece of property.
Exploring some places can seem (from my experience) like browsing a museum. In an ideal world, should certain places be made more public, through removing legal barriers to exploration, giving guided tours, etc? Or would that just ruin the excitement?
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Nope. I live in a cool house, but that doesn't mean the government should open my house up to everyone for the "benefit of the public". Privately owned buildings are just that: PRIVATE. I don't care how cool it sounds, handing over our private property to the government is another step towards Communism.
Graffiti writers often make it to abandoned buildings long before anyone else. Why do you think that is? If graffiti is public art, then are abandoned spaces the world's first truly public art galleries?
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You're perverting the meaning of the word "public". No, graffiti is not public art, it is a piece of vandalism on private property.
[last edit 3/21/2007 11:31 PM by HillbillyHorus - edited 2 times]
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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Samurai
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 8 on 3/21/2007 8:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by HillbillyHorus
Morally speaking, I think that grafiti'ing a neglected building is fine so long as your art is good. It enhances the experience for me.
But from a legal standpoint it is and should be illegal.
It's kind of how I don't like smoking in restaraunts but still oppose a ban because it's a privately owned business.
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i figured it wouldn't take you long to jump on this topic and start humping the shit out of it.
Samurai
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kjohnnytarr
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Gender: Male
Team Asbestos: CoMO
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 9 on 3/21/2007 8:56 PM >
| | | | We really should have a separate board just for journalists, kids doing school papers, and other outsiders who only join to ask a couple questions.
It seemed like a good idea at the time... |
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Samurai
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 10 on 3/21/2007 10:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by kjohnnytarr
We really should have a separate board just for journalists, kids doing school papers, and other outsiders who only join to ask a couple questions.
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are you basing this theory on your 6 months of membership?
there is already a rookie forum, is there not?
Samurai
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HillbillyHorus
Location: Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 11 on 3/21/2007 11:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by Samurai
i figured it wouldn't take you long to jump on this topic and start humping the shit out of it.
Samurai
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I was just using the example of smoking to illustrate my point . . .
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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kjohnnytarr
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Gender: Male
Team Asbestos: CoMO
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 12 on 3/21/2007 11:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by Samurai
are you basing this theory on your 6 months of membership?
there is already a rookie forum, is there not?
Samurai
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Aw hell Samurai; you need to read some sarcasm into that.
But on a serious note: take your three years and shove 'em -- stars don't impress me.
It seemed like a good idea at the time... |
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Samurai
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 13 on 3/21/2007 11:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by kjohnnytarr
Aw hell Samurai; you need to read some sarcasm into that.
But on a serious note: take your three years and shove 'em -- stars don't impress me.
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i'm not here to impress.
i'm here to tell you what I think.
And now you know what I think... oh, and gee whiz, you've got a good start on being an internet tough guy. Learn to punctuate. 
Samurai
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GIJOE
Location: Under Melbourne
Gender: Male
Watch out for pedestrians when driving in tunnels
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 14 on 3/22/2007 4:58 AM >
| | | | My opinion is that it is ok to graffiti inside drains, but not abandonements, from a purely UE perspective, an intact abandonement is much more interesting than a smashed, tagged pile of crap as it takes away from the original character of the building, whereas in a drain its not really ruining the look for the general public as theres not much to see down there anyway.
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CaptOrbit
Location: Sarasota, FL or Cincinnati, OH
Gender: Male
There you are, right back in the jungle again.
| | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 15 on 3/22/2007 5:37 AM >
| | | | If the owner of a piece of property says “Hey go ahead and put your street art on this wall.” Fine. As a general rule however, I pretty much feel the same about graffiti, as I do about usually awful hip-hop thumping out of the $600 car’s $3000 stereo next to me at any given intersection. Graffiti should no more be forced on the public and property owner, than the music blasting from the rusted out sh*t box next to me when I'm on the street.
on a side note, Why do people put $3000 systems in $600 cars? If you have that much, buy a $3600 car!
ps I have nothing against $600 cars per se, I've had inexpensive cars. I only have a problem when people buy them as a platform for 18"+ rims and obnoxiously loud bass.
[last edit 3/22/2007 8:06 AM by CaptOrbit - edited 2 times]
The personal responsibility train left the station years ago, and you gave it the finger as you watched it leave. |
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skyzefawlun
Location: Boston, MA
Gender: Male
Never look up...
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 16 on 3/22/2007 3:08 PM >
| | | | Posted by CaptOrbit
on a side note, Why do people put $3000 systems in $600 cars? If you have that much, buy a $3600 car!
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Might have a little something to do with society placing far too much value on material possessions and the perceived class status of the individual that those possessions indicate. This mixed with the fast paced quick fix culture has created a world where a $600 car with a $3000 stereo is common.
Or maybe some people just like music more then you do...
Or maybe you just lived in a sheltered reality and can't understand a different culture's traditions and behavior.
Post by HillbillyHorus
Nope. I live in a cool house, but that doesn't mean the government should open my house up to everyone for the "benefit of the public". Privately owned buildings are just that: PRIVATE. I don't care how cool it sounds, handing over our private property to the government is another step towards Communism.
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Way to totally miss the point of his post and what he was getting at with this. He's not talking about taking private residences and making them public places. He's talking about publicly owned land and buildings, managed and operated by the federal, state and local authorities, that are in varying states of disuse and disrepair and making them accessible to the public as they should be seeing as we own them and they aren't being used. Sure, if there is a hazard that would make the public safety a serious concern, maybe keep them locked up, but so many places sit behind locks and fences that could be doing so much more.
Another step towards communism? Are you fucking kidding me? Take a step back for a second and think about the concept of ownership itself. Take a few more steps back because I still think your field of vision is too narrow. The most selfish act any human being can commit is declaring ownership of anything, be it a tangible object like a parcel of land or building, or an ethereal matter like an idea. Once ownership is declared, the onus of appropriately using that object then falls on the entity that claimed ownership. Typically, ownership is gained through financial means, and financial means are gained through self serving methods, and self serving methods create an isolationist society, and an isolationist society will destroy itself.
Posted by HillbillyHorus
Morally speaking, I think that grafiti'ing a neglected building is fine so long as your art is good. It enhances the experience for me.
But from a legal standpoint it is and should be illegal.
It's kind of how I don't like smoking in restaraunts but still oppose a ban because it's a privately owned business.
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This is because a private property owner should be allowed to impose whatever rules and regulations they see fit with complete and utter disregard for the health, safety, and wellbeing of themselves, their potential customer, and even those around them who have nothing to do with either the owner and the property. Now let me say this, I myself smoke occasionally, and have been a smoker for many years. As is the case with just about everything in this world, there are appropriate times and places for everything, and 3 feet away from a stranger while they're eating is not the right time or place to light up. Sure you can avoid a place that allows smoking, or one that bans it depending on your preference, but to deny the fact that smoking exposes not only the primary participant, but secondary bystanders to toxic chemicals known to cause not only cancer but a myriad of other terrible things is inexcusable. There is this little thing called the greater good which should prevail over self serving vices.
As far as graffiti enhancing your experience, that's absolutely wonderful! That's EXACTLY what it's supposed to do. I'm glad you can differentiate between artistic expression and placating one's ego.
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skyzefawlun
Location: Boston, MA
Gender: Male
Never look up...
| | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 17 on 3/22/2007 4:27 PM >
| | | | Jacksan,
Sorry to fall into the nasty rut running along the side of these tracks here in my previous post. You posed some great questions, and it sounds like a great article that you're working on...
Posted by jacksan
Some might say urban exploring and posting photos of private or off-limits spaces for public consumption takes private space and puts into the public realm. Do you agree? Is UE a conscious act of expanding the amount of space within the public realm by exposing what's inside these massive structures and giving tips on how to get in them? Or do we do it just for the thrill?
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For some of us it is. Obviously, others do it purely as a pissing contest, as had been made evident here time and time again. Some of us however don't believe in publicly owned spaces being locked up when that space holds great value to the public.
Exploring some places can seem (from my experience) like browsing a museum. In an ideal world, should certain places be made more public, through removing legal barriers to exploration, giving guided tours, etc? Or would that just ruin the excitement?
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Of course making a place once illegal to visit public would diminish the thrill factor if infiltrating it, because duh... it would no longer be infiltration. Sure, this would turn some off but if you're primary reason for exploring is the thrill of breaking the law, then you have some serious issues. Sure most of us get a little turned on when we think we're about to get busted, fear does that. It's perfectly natural and healthy. Ever heard of adrenaline? That doesn't mean that removing that fear will ruin the experience for everyone though. In fact, there are a large number of people who do not participate in this activity due to the fear of punishment. Of course, it's that exact segment of the population that elitists in this community want out of "their" locations.
This all stems from the whole ownership issue. Explorers like to stake their claim on a location, just like the real explorers did centuries ago for their sponsoring countries. They feel as though their claim grants them exclusive rights to that location, or access to some special explorers club while in reality they're just fooling themselves. It's all self serving ego stroking and honestly, it paints a pretty sad picture of our world that even the rejects and freaks ( terms I use with love and pride, considering myself as one of both ) who are drawn to these places for whatever their personal reason may be, feel the need to engage in such socially disruptive behaviors, especially inside their own sub-culture. Elitism is elitism is elitism.
blue in the fucking mouth.
Graffiti writers often make it to abandoned buildings long before anyone else. Why do you think that is? If graffiti is public art, then are abandoned spaces the world's first truly public art galleries?
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Artists when persecuted for practicing their art will go to extraordinary lengths to find ways to continue to practice. If you're passionate about your art, and don't want to be arrested for painting on a highway underpass, maybe you'll start looking for some place more secluded where you can express yourself without fear of legal recourse. It's pretty simple really, and if you look through the history of artistic expression, you will see many examples of other groups of artists who faced similar obstacles and were able to come up with creative solutions so that they could continue to practice their art. This is just a case of history repeating itself.
As far as abandonments being the first truly public art galleries, I'd hardly call them the first, and I'd hardly call them public. Take a drive on the highways of the world, or sit along side it's railways and tell me there aren't already free public galleries. Abandonments are usually private property, or public land that has been designated off limits to civilians, so an art gallery inside of one would not be truly public at all.
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Chrysis
Location: Moncks Corner, SC
Gender: Female
| |  | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 18 on 3/22/2007 5:04 PM >
| | | | I'm not even going to comment on the graffiti issue, since the only graffiti we have around here looks like its been done by someone who just hopped off of the short bus. (No offense intended to former short bus riders... it just REALLY looks like that).
This is because a private property owner should be allowed to impose whatever rules and regulations they see fit with complete and utter disregard for the health, safety, and well being of themselves, their potential customer, and even those around them who have nothing to do with either the owner and the property.
Private property owners maybe should be allowed to do that, depends on your take on that, but they aren't. There are all sorts of rules governing private property. Just look at neighborhood home-owner's associations.... and that truly does concern truly private property. As a property owner, I like the idea of being able to do whatever the hell I want with what is mine, and it really pisses me off when someone else messes with what is mine, in ANY way. I don't care if its a couple of cars that have been sitting in my backyard for a few years.... just taking up space. They are MINE, don't fuck with them. I hate Vandalism. But I am a hypocrite, because I love to poke around other people's properties. I just don't touch them. And sometimes not-short bus graffiti just makes things more interesting..... So I am a hypocrite and see both sides, in a way.... Although I think people could find something else better to do with their time than mess places up. Of course, the same could be said for poking around in there in the first place.
And the 600 dollar car/ 3000 dollar stereo statement.... yeah it can be obnoxious, but the way I see it, its not much different than putting an assload of upgrades and accessories on my thousand dollar bronco..... the less money you spend on the vehicle, the more money you can put in playing with it. I can afford a vehicle that cost more, but I like not having car payments and having the freedom to do whatever the hell I want to with it....
Bitching about kids writing papers and reporters asking questions on here.... Isn't it better that they get some information from some people who know what they are talking about (and I am NOT claiming to be one of them) than getting their info from a smaller pool of individuals.... like the one local group of teenagers that they would be lucky enough to come across, cuz no one else will talk to them? Just my 2 cents...
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or play with it, Just pee on it and walk away. |
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jayohayel
Location: atlanta
Gender: Male
you got the touch. you got the POWER.
| | | | Re: Publicizing Private Space?
<Reply # 19 on 3/22/2007 8:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by jacksan
Exploring some places can seem (from my experience) like browsing a museum. In an ideal world, should certain places be made more public, through removing legal barriers to exploration, giving guided tours, etc? Or would that just ruin the excitement?
Graffiti writers often make it to abandoned buildings long before anyone else. Why do you think that is? If graffiti is public art, then are abandoned spaces the world's first truly public art galleries?
[/b]
Thanks for posting!
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as far as making places "more public"... i'm not sure there is a way to do that without these places becoming over-regulated. you're right, part of the fun in doing this is the thrill of getting in, possibly finding something that nobody else has found since the place was active, and just the freedom to explore each structure without anybody saying where you can and can't go.
and as far as graffiti being art... i don't need some guy named "paco" writing his name on a wall in big extravagant letters for everybody to see-- i'm not there to be at an art gallery.
once you go mole, theres no other hole! |
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