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 Chud
Try a 211, you'll just get 187'd...
 |  | Re: private messages
<Reply # 20 on 12/10/2003 4:30 PM >
|  | | | Regardless of what the thread was, or what happened, it is a public forum issue, and as such someone should tell the people who missed some/all of the thread what happened. Otherwise take this crap to private messages. It's either a private issue or a public issue, it can't be both.
EDIT - Uh, never mind, posted this about two posts too late. I'm sort of starting to piece stuff together...
[last edit 12/10/2003 4:32 PM by Chud - edited 1 times]
Nobody will not agree with the Russians, ever on anything.
-Kimmo |
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Avatar-X
      
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| |  | Re: private messages
<Reply # 21 on 12/10/2003 4:32 PM >
| | | | well, it WAS a private issue. Asher decided to post the private info in the public thread.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 22 on 12/10/2003 4:35 PM >
| | | | alright, i've brought the post back... don't take too much insight into what asher is saying, most of it is made up, and that i can easily back up.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| |  | Re: private messages
<Reply # 23 on 12/10/2003 4:39 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Avatar-X
well, it WAS a private issue. Asher decided to post the private info in the public thread.
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Private issues, eh?
It seems the reading of private messages and hacking an account, plus shit-talking about Max, seemedto be the cause of all this. I have no idea what Asher posted that was so nasty, because I ignored the thread after a point and you then deleted it, so now I have no idea what was said.
Regardless, those are pretty weighty issues to try to keep hidden from the rest of the forum...and it seems alot of people aren't happy about it.
~D
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 24 on 12/10/2003 4:40 PM >
| | | | ok, guys, let me draw you a picture:
Imagine you're the forum administrator. You're having a problem with a certain member, so you post in the PRIVATE ADMINISTRATORS FORUM about this member.
Then, this particular member PMs you, and informs you that he knows you are discussing him in the private admin forum. Clearly, one or more of the admins is leaking information to the member.
What would you do?
(a) Nothing. It doesn't matter that private information is being leaked to non-administrators.
(b) I'd accuse all the admins of leaking, and hope the real leaks come forward.
(c) I'd not do anything, but now I have no trust in any of the administrators
or
(d) I'd do a quick scan of the recent private messages sent to the member in question, looking for specific key words. I wouldn't hide the fact that I did this, rather, I'd tell everyone in the admin forum and bring the treason of the admins into the light.
Now, I chose to do (d). Reading PMs is wrong, but did I have another choice? Would anyone else have done it differently?
huskies - such fluff. |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 25 on 12/10/2003 4:49 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Then, this particular member PMs you, and informs you that he knows you are discussing him in the private admin forum. Clearly, one or more of the admins is leaking information to the member.
What would you do?
(a) Nothing. It doesn't matter that private information is being leaked to non-administrators.
(b) I'd accuse all the admins of leaking, and hope the real leaks come forward.
(c) I'd not do anything, but now I have no trust in any of the administrators
or
(d) I'd do a quick scan of the recent private messages sent to the member in question, looking for specific key words. I wouldn't hide the fact that I did this, rather, I'd tell everyone in the admin forum and bring the treason of the admins into the light.
Now, I chose to do (d). Reading PMs is wrong, but did I have another choice? Would anyone else have done it differently?
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But apparently the information leaked was personal in nature, and not at all flattering to Max, so wouldn't it be expected that this info might find its way to Max? I sure like to know if someone is/was talking shit about me. Max obviously was tipped off to it, and you then spied in on his messages to find the source of the leak. All of this to stop the "treason" of an adminstrator who was only doing what seems to me like the right thing.
~D
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 26 on 12/10/2003 4:52 PM >
| | | | Regardless of what the information was, or who it was about, PRIVATE information should remain private. Just because it's about you doesn't mean you have a right to see it. Yes, I commited a wrongdoing by reading max's PMs, but it was only to correct another wrongdoing -- private information being sent to max.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 27 on 12/10/2003 4:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Just because it's about you doesn't mean you have a right to see it.
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So anyone can talk shit about you then, because you don't have a right to see it, as long as its private. Oh, wait, I forgot, NO private message is private here because you can scan the messages of every member. But you on the other hand are free from such judgement.
Seems rather like a double-standard...
~D
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 28 on 12/10/2003 5:02 PM >
| | | | You can talk all the shit you want about me in PMs. Like I said earlier in the post, I will not look into other people's PMs unless all the admins deem it necessary.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 29 on 12/10/2003 5:02 PM >
| | | | But in the end it doesn't matter what I say. Asher will still be gone, you will still be the over-seer of the forum, and you will still have the full power to censor everything I say and ban me.
If it so fits your temperament, you of course are free to do so...
~D
[last edit 12/10/2003 5:03 PM by Downtown D-Low Brown - edited 1 times]
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 30 on 12/10/2003 5:03 PM >
| | | | Asher left of her own will, I'm the owner of the forum because I programmed it, and I pay to have it hosted, and while i can censor you or ban you, it doesn't necessarily mean that i will censor you or ban you. You will only be censored/banned if the forum rules are broken.
huskies - such fluff. |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 31 on 12/10/2003 5:08 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
Asher left of her own will, I'm the owner of the forum because I programmed it, and I pay to have it hosted, and while i can censor you or ban you, it doesn't necessarily mean that i will censor you or ban you. You will only be censored/banned if the forum rules are broken.
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I understand that. It just seems as if the trust of many others will not be easy to regain. I really can't have complete trust again that that will be really true. Time will tell, I guess
I leave this issue for other people to argue over. I've said all I have to.
~D
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 32 on 12/10/2003 5:12 PM >
| | | | You've already trusted the administration of this forum from the day you signed up, not to post your private information to the authorities (things like your IP), so why should this be any different?
huskies - such fluff. |
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King Pie
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 33 on 12/10/2003 5:16 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
ok, guys, let me draw you a picture:
Imagine you're the forum administrator. You're having a problem with a certain member, so you post in the PRIVATE ADMINISTRATORS FORUM about this member.
Then, this particular member PMs you, and informs you that he knows you are discussing him in the private admin forum. Clearly, one or more of the admins is leaking information to the member.
What would you do?
(a) Nothing. It doesn't matter that private information is being leaked to non-administrators.
(b) I'd accuse all the admins of leaking, and hope the real leaks come forward.
(c) I'd not do anything, but now I have no trust in any of the administrators
or
(d) I'd do a quick scan of the recent private messages sent to the member in question, looking for specific key words. I wouldn't hide the fact that I did this, rather, I'd tell everyone in the admin forum and bring the treason of the admins into the light.
Now, I chose to do (d). Reading PMs is wrong, but did I have another choice? Would anyone else have done it differently?
Regardless of what the information was, or who it was about, PRIVATE information should remain private. Just because it's about you doesn't mean you have a right to see it. Yes, I commited a wrongdoing by reading max's PMs, but it was only to correct another wrongdoing -- private information being sent to max.
You've already trusted the administration of this forum from the day you signed up, not to post your private information to the authorities (things like your IP), so why should this be any different?
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Not that I know anything about what was said about max.. but here is what I am getting from this... you were bitching about a member(some might say, behind his back, which to be straight isn't all together wrong), this strikes me as being very similar to gossip, now someone you talk to is also good friends with max and that person goes and tells and then max tries to confront you about it, you filp out and get into an argument with this person after using admin abilities to find out who it was. That's the basic situation right?
A couple things come to mind.
What we are looking at is "two wrongs don't make a right" on a very basic level.
You claim there is very little privacy on the net(especially the forum), but yet get highly offended when yours is threatened.(yet have no issue threatening others)
Solutions? Well for one, talking behind peoples back, especially in a negative context probably shouldn't happen.(I'm a big fan of confontation)
I would be interested in knowing whether or not you have a privacy policy associated to the site(or that forum specifically), or even better some sort of coding which would prevent your access to information(I dont' know if this is possible, and even more unlikly that you would take the time to impliment it), because if you didnt' then what was to specifically stop her, I know I'm in the MECCA board, and I don't think the members would get pissed about alot of the stuff on there being leaked.
In answer to your question, I think I'd pick A, why get pissed when things in the long run don't matter(especially it seems in this case) then I would attempt to impliment an improved privacy system which wouldn't result in this happening again(for anyone, and for yourself, restraint, badmouthing people never helps anyone).
What ahppend to my pic!
[last edit 12/10/2003 5:16 PM by King Pie - edited 1 times]
Chained at the ankles, bound at the wrists
Stuffed into mail-sacks and tossed into drifts |
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Krenta
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Nope, wasn't me.
| | Re: private messages
<Reply # 34 on 12/10/2003 6:09 PM >
| | | |
Okay, Av, since I've spent several minutes wading through all these foeces... I've a question.
Someone (and I suppose it doesn't matter who, we'll call them party A) disclosed "private" secret-squirrel information to someone who isn't a secret squirrel (party  . And you, Av became irritable because the confidentiality of the secret squirrel area had been violated like a drunk cheerleader at Homecoming. Sound right?
Okay, so here's the question that's bothering me: Is there some sort of *explicit* non-disclosure policy for the secret squirrel area? Does the UE Admin and Moderator Handbook, 4th Edition (Revised) state "You will not disclose anything no matter how earth-shattering, insignificant, or downright cool from the secret squirrel lair to anyone, yes anyone, not even your girlfriend, mother, or housepets, upon penalty of much name-calling and hair-pulling, so help you Gug"? Or was the expectation of privacy, confidentiality, and pr0n sharing just that - an implicit but not clearly stated expectation?
Because I for one'd like to know if this whole thing started because party A broke a rule, or if it started because you got upset about someone ratting you out for talking about party B behind his/her/it's back. I'm, you know, unclear on that whole thing, man, you dig what I'm tryin' to say? 
Make love, not war, Av. Outbreed your enemies!
Or something.
Have Speed Graphic, Will Travel. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 35 on 12/10/2003 6:47 PM >
| | | | well, there was no explicit rule of privacy, but i thought it was pretty clearly implied. "Forum Admin Issues", listed under "Private Boards". You put it together.
Also, the private post I made re: max wasn't so much "talking behind his back" as it was "letting the admins know what was going on between max and myself, and warning them not to take any shit from him".
huskies - such fluff. |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: private messages
<Reply # 36 on 12/10/2003 7:42 PM >
| | | | Krenta stated very clearly the view that was in my head since the beginning. Regardless of whether or not the disclosure of information was wrong, there is no explicitly defined policy that says it is not allowed. It's somewhat sad that we live in a world where every nitty gritty detail of the law has to be laid out concisely in order for people to do the right thing, but the point stands.
The reading of PMs by an admin is pretty low, but there are plenty of potential situations where it could be necessary or beneficial to the forum as a whole. I think that if the practice is ever expected to be needed again in the future, we lay out some rules. Essentially, if an admin sees the need to check PM info, all of the admins should discuss and examine the issue in private, then everyone should agree on the same plan of action before doing anything. This should prevent haphazardly-made decisions in the future.
When you think about it, there was no rule saying that the admin forum's contents couldn't be discussed elsewhere, but it is implied by the name of the forum. There is also no rule (that I am aware of) that says your private messages will never be seen by an outsider, although, once again, the name implies it. It would be wise to lay these types of issues out formally so that there is something to refer back to and all parties involved can be aware of things before all hell breaks loose again.
I see that Av has penned a privacy statement that ought to help cover the bases in this department. I want to help bring the issue further towards conclusion instead of slinging more mud or calling names. I'm asking whoever all cares enough to go at the issue intelligently and professionally: What all else needs to be done so that what I tried to explain in my third paragraph is remedied and we can get some closure here?
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 37 on 12/10/2003 7:49 PM >
| | | | I agree with Krazy.
I apologize for the confusion, and reading Max's PMs. However, I feel this was one of those situations where it was warranted.
I've posted a privacy statement, and also informed the admins about what is not acceptable.
huskies - such fluff. |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: private messages
<Reply # 38 on 12/10/2003 7:52 PM >
| | | | Looks like everything here is resolved. Let's get back to life as normal.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| | | Re: private messages
<Reply # 39 on 12/10/2003 7:54 PM >
| | | | On another note, I think it was good of you to re-instate the formerly deleted thread Av. It looks better on your part. That was a class move.
I hope there's no more of this shit in the future.
~D
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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