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Server Time:
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 Ryzom
Location: Piedmont, CA
Gender: Male
 |  |  | Why was my lockpicking post locked?
< on 12/4/2003 3:45 AM >
|  | | | Ok I want to keep this civil but bear with me, I am not too happy about getting my last post locked.
First of all I get flamed for posting something that is illegal, or that is illegal and cops care about it more, whatever works, nevertheless its all just still illegal.
You are telling me that people think of locks as last resorts? Well that may be true in some cases, but the last time I heard about some guy breaking into my cousins house he shot the guy. Now strikes me that that is a last resort.
And cops care more about lockpicking than what? Bypassing cameras and motion sensors once you are already in the building?? Strikes me that they would care more about that if they can't see you.
Also they wouldn't resort to welding locks. People would just buy more complex locks for instance double sided and/or 3 pronged locks. Which are rather difficult to pick.
And I believe Urban explorer's motto is leave everything as you found it, or something to that extent. Well I am no thief I will tell you that, and I don't think anyone else on this forum is either. I leave everything EXACTLY as I found it. Locked doors and all.
Now as far as I know I haven't broken any rules here by asking a simple lockpicking question. I am not asking you to lockpick, nor anyone else, I am simply calling upon those of you who know how to help a guy out. If you don't I understand it is illegal and bad, and I understand the risk, and I know what I am doing.
Also as for going to a lockpicking forum, already tried that, they have about 2 members each. And no one actually knows how to lockpick. And I posted under the Useful Info and tutorials page. Are you telling me that when you are "infiltrating" something you most definatly will NEVER need to lockpick?
Look I am just not understand why it was locked down, so if you just want to turn this into a huge ethical debate. I will just leave and put some forums on a new site, and find out somewhere else. So either way I am going to find out, I don't need people pretending to be my parents. I already have 2 of those, and they know that I lockpick and they don't really care.
Thats all thanks for reading!!!
"They're dead, and you're going to be next." |
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Jester
 
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| |  | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 1 on 12/4/2003 4:13 AM >
|  | | | I locked the thread. I did so because every, EVERY thread about it turns into a big arguement. The lock picking forums will serve that line of questions better than here.
And in case you wonder. You've looked through my site and seen where I've gone. I have never picked a lock to get into any place i've explored... So it's quite possible to have success while exploring without lock picks, don't you think so ?
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| |  |  | | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 2 on 12/4/2003 4:31 AM >
| | | | I gotta side with Ryzom on this one. I don't think it's fair that a post on lockpicking gets locked because other people besides the one that started the thread take it off topic with ethics discussions. It should be dealt with like other off topic posts. The offending posts should be removed and the person who took it off topic should be reprimanded for taking it off topic. If there is such a serious problem with lockpicking discussions, then it should be banned as a topic and included in the rules, it's confusing for new people otherwise.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Ryzom
Location: Piedmont, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 3 on 12/4/2003 4:40 AM >
| | | | I didn't say it was not possible, I have seen where people have gone, but I don't mean to be rude but I am not you. Nor am I anyone else here. Just because one person doesn't entered locked places doesn't mean I also have to follow in their footsteps.
I am peticularly fond of lockpicking, its a rather nice feeling when you feel the tension wrench move and then it all the sudden unlocks. So seeing that my interests are different, it would make sense that I would explore different places.
"They're dead, and you're going to be next." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 4 on 12/4/2003 4:44 AM >
| | | | Posted by Shane
If there is such a serious problem with lockpicking discussions, then it should be banned as a topic and included in the rules, it's confusing for new people otherwise.
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That is being discussed by the moderators currently. So one way or another, soon, we should have a definitive answer.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 5 on 12/4/2003 5:04 AM >
| | | | Posted by Jester
That is being discussed by the moderators currently. So one way or another, soon, we should have a definitive answer.
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Cool, I could care less wether the topic is banned or not, I'm just more concerned with consistency in enforcing the forum rules and sticking to em.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Mark
   
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 6 on 12/4/2003 5:05 AM >
| | | | Just my two cents. If your going to ban lock picking then ban camo, ban radios, ban boots, ban tabis, ban anything that causes controversy. If you use any GRMS freqs your breaking a federal law. Thats bad verwy verwy bad. You can do jail time. In fact using radios to evade the police, or any criminal intent including trespassing for photos is a criminal offense. Maybe instead of baning it you guys should have a no flaming rule. I know why everyone is up in arms about lock picks and I think there is good reason why its in contention. However you all might as well ban everything that flames in here if you ban picking. Ok jester doesnt do it. I bet I can talk to many people on here who do. Good for you jester I am glad you hold your ethics in such high regard. Will the moderators punish all others because Jester can do without? (No offense to Jester I think it is damn cool you have never picked or taken anything however look at others on this board that have "salvaged etc" we know the consequences. My comments about Jester were purely to show the point not everyone can do as well.)
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 7 on 12/4/2003 5:17 AM >
| | | | The point is that this forum does not want to be seen as promoting lock picking. trespassing is one thing, breaking and entering is another. And it is most definitely not my personal view that made me lock it. I grew up with a father that picks locks, and I do not personally have a problem with lock picking. I just don't do it myself while exploring.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Ryzom
Location: Piedmont, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 8 on 12/4/2003 5:28 AM >
| | | | However, everything that this site stands for is illegal, and I personally agree with mark (even though I don't even know what some of the stuff is he gave examples of, i feel I can safely assume it is illegal). Unless you are going to explain exactly what you do promote, I don't feel that lockpicking could be differentiated from say resisting/avoiding arrest. And just so everyone knows.
I have actually studied breaking and entering. and this is what it consists of (decided by a case which I can't remember the name of). If you so much as touch ANYTHING (yes thats right, turning a doorknob even if it is unlocked, it is known as breaking. I don't agree with it but its true, also opening a window is breaking in. unless the door is open enough so that you cannot touch it then it is breaking.
I hate to break it to yall. But lockpicks or not if you touch anything to get in your breaking.
"They're dead, and you're going to be next." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 9 on 12/4/2003 5:37 AM >
| | | | I levitate and walk through walls, never touch anything...
This is not up for debate, can it please be left alone until a formal decision is posted (which should probably happen tomorrow I would guess, once all moderators have had a chance to weigh in on the issue). After that, then simply abide by whatever decision is brought down. I don't think I am asking too much to just simmer down and wait for 24 hours.
[last edit 12/4/2003 2:03 PM by Jester - edited 1 times]
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Ryzom
Location: Piedmont, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 10 on 12/4/2003 5:43 AM >
| | | | AHHHHHHH! *starts twitching like that kid from south park who drinks too much coffee*
Sorry I had to bring it up it just feels a little annoying to get a post blocked. You have my apologies.
"They're dead, and you're going to be next." |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 11 on 12/4/2003 4:03 PM >
| | | | Ok, we're going to try to keep discussions about lock picking allowed but any that get flaming will be deleted. So post away !
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 12 on 12/4/2003 4:05 PM >
| | | | Will the offending posts be deleted or the entire thread?
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 13 on 12/4/2003 5:18 PM >
| | | | Only the offending posts will be deleted, the thread will not be locked unless it gets completely out of hand (as they usually do, but we'll see).
C.
Disgruntled. |
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lago1
Location: the 'Go
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 14 on 12/5/2003 4:02 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Jester
You've looked through my site and seen where I've gone. I have never picked a lock to get into any place i've explored... So it's quite possible to have success while exploring without lock picks, don't you think so ?
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Is it possible your culture has spoiled you? If Canada is as lax about locks as Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" suggests, then trespass may be a lot easier. Here in Chicago, while there are plenty of places that aren't locked at all, the vast majority of interesting sites are on serious lockdown. It's a big city, paranoid, terrorism-shook, American thing. Lockpicking, for some people, is an easier solution than grappling hooks or crawling through buildings' sewer mains.
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 15 on 12/5/2003 4:13 PM >
| | | | Well, considering that comparing what security measures I've had to face with what lots of explorers all over that I know have faced, it doesn't seem that it's *lax* here at all. If anything, we seem to have more security (24hr guards, alarms in abandonments, K-9 units at Woodlands). Especially considering the number of emails I've recieved from other explorers around here, telling me about how they got caught at places I've explored (and continue to explore still).
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Downtown D-Low Brown
Location: The Ill Noize.
Gender: Male
The game is the game.
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 16 on 12/5/2003 4:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by lago1
Is it possible your culture has spoiled you? If Canada is as lax about locks as Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" suggests, then trespass may be a lot easier. Here in Chicago, while there are plenty of places that aren't locked at all, the vast majority of interesting sites are on serious lockdown. It's a big city, paranoid, terrorism-shook, American thing. Lockpicking, for some people, is an easier solution than grappling hooks or crawling through buildings' sewer mains.
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You and I must be in different realities, because I've found many great places to explore with minimal security. You're obvious not looking in the right places.
Why do you never post anything of relevance except, it seems, to argue about something?
~D
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
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The Lost Flock
Location: Montreal, QC
Gender: Male
baaah.
| | | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 17 on 12/5/2003 7:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by lago1
Lockpicking, for some people, is an easier solution than grappling hooks or crawling through buildings' sewer mains.
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At least grappling hooks and sewer main crawling takes a bit of ingenuity and exploration ro find places where you can use these two examples of entrance methods. Lockpicking is the lazyman's way out.
"Oh no, this door is lock! I COULD fo looking all around this big building to find another entrance, but that'd take SO long! I'd better just give up now and pick my wat through this door instead."
-The Lost Flock
The Lost Flock is finding it's way.
Scaffolding is like monkey bars for adults. |
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GnomeToys
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Gender: Male
West Siiiiide
| | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 18 on 12/5/2003 11:55 PM >
| | | | Why not just pick the lock on your post?
(somebody had to say it)
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Malabaristo
Location: Eau Claire Wisconsin
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Why was my lockpicking post locked?
<Reply # 19 on 12/6/2003 12:09 AM >
| | | | Posted by LostFlock
At least grappling hooks and sewer main crawling takes a bit of ingenuity and exploration to find places where you can use these two examples of entrance methods. |
I make my own tools and tought myself how to open locks. That doesn't take ingenuity? There may be less physical effort involved, but it takes just as much talent.
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