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 argonian
   
Location: Toronto, ON
Gender: Female
"Now with added cats!"
 |  | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 20 on 11/15/2006 4:56 AM >
|  | | | Posted by Swamp Thing
5.) There's no such thing as "a bad deal in life". Your life just is. It's you who has to deal.
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that is just silly and I am not even sure what it means, but I am sure it is silly.
It is also silly for people to suggest OCAP should merely be a organization of floating volunteers, helping out a Habitat one day and at food bank the next.
Anyhow, I agree with everything Micro has said on the issue, but if it is donating food you want, they do that too (full story here http://ocap.ca/node/522) ...
In this Wednesday's (September 29) food grab from a high-end grocery store, members of the Ontario Coalition Against Poverty walked away with $3525.00 worth of food and tolietries.
The haul of goods included chicken, beef roasts, racks of ribs, rice, coffee, bricks of cheese, diapers, shampoo and other necessities that people in this province simply cannot afford. As one of the OCAP crew noted, "I've never shopped like this before in my life - instead of searching for the cheapest items, I could go for the expensive quality stuff."
OCAP members were able to walk easily away from the grocery store, food in hand. The food was then distributed to people living in the city's downtown east end yesterday evening.
Que pasa, baby? |
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Wu
     
Location: here
Gender: Female
Locked to the Rock since '94
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 21 on 11/15/2006 1:47 PM >
| | | | I can understand and appreciate what OCAP stands for...and for the volunteering that they do. I also understand that they have the best interests at heart (for the public)...What I don't understand is how getting vocally caught breaking into an abandoned building is helping...
Is it supposed to be symbolic that we HAVE housing available...and that the government should convert these into affordable housing?
Or is it a message that the government (who IS trying to convert these buildings into affordable housing...and don't get me started on free markets swamp thing) should work faster?
That's all I'm curious about.
"Talk is Cheap because supply exceeds demand" |
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Swamp Thing
Location: Elsewhere
Not a real user.
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 22 on 11/15/2006 3:27 PM >
| | | | Posted by argonian
that is just silly and I am not even sure what it means, but I am sure it is silly.
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Is that your whole argument? If so, you lose.
Moving on, I am also curious as to why OCAP is supporting:
illegal immigrants ...http://ocap.ca/taxonomy_menu/5/10
aboriginal protesters in Caledonia ...http://ocap.ca/taxonomy_menu/1/11
palestinian guerillas killed by Israeli troops ...http://www.ocap.ca/caiaweek
and taxi drivers who want a bigger share of the hotel trade ...http://ocap.ca/taxi/banditlimos and http://ocap.ca/taxi/banditlimos2
How is that helping the "homeless" guy passed out on the grate at King and Wellington (with his empty bottle of Lambs Old Navy Rum)?
As I went walking, I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, That side was made for you and me. - Woody Guthrie, "This Land Is Your Land" |
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mortimer
Location: teronno
| |  | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 23 on 11/15/2006 4:45 PM >
| | | | Not that I'm going to take sides in this useless interweb soapbox derby, but for clarification, OCAP is supporting
because all of these issues have to do with poverty in Canada. As for
well, you got me. I have no idea what that has to do with anything other than international politics and the rhetoric of the extreme left.
While I disagree with your sweeping generalizations of poverty and homelessness, I personally don't have much respect for OCAP either. They've made a lot of noise, got some press, but haven't really done all that much in the way of actual, positive, verifiable action to directly help the poor/homeless. While I do appreciate that they keep the issue in the news and occasionally on the minds of the general public, I think that their media stunt protests and the riot at Queen's Park have done more to alienate the public than help the poor.
But anyway, this thread was about an (allegedly) abandoned house. So, yeah, go explore abandoned houses. Or something.
yep. |
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 24 on 11/15/2006 5:01 PM >
| | | | Ah UER, where enemies are made on the internet out of silly topics.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 25 on 11/15/2006 6:08 PM >
| | | | *shrug* Beats talking about abandoned houses.
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Agent Skelly
 
Web Sheriff
Location: Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| |  |  | | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 26 on 11/15/2006 7:20 PM >
| | | | Naw, I just have a problem with groups that their primary method of message delivery is protesting.
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Swamp Thing
Location: Elsewhere
Not a real user.
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 27 on 11/15/2006 8:26 PM >
| | | | Posted by mortimer
<reasonable analysis deleted for space>
But anyway, this thread was about an (allegedly) abandoned house. So, yeah, go explore abandoned houses. Or something.
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Agreed!
As I went walking, I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, That side was made for you and me. - Woody Guthrie, "This Land Is Your Land" |
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 28 on 11/16/2006 1:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by micro
I'm sure if you gave the OCAP site more than just the cursory once-over, you'd find that there's more to their work than just superficial protests.
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Oh, I'll continue to check it out micro. I started with their own web site but I still haven't seen much else on it.
Posted by micro
And while you two are making yourselves feel better by offering bandaid solutions like donating to the local food bank, there are actually people out there who are trying to tackle things from the source of the problem. You know.. so that maybe people wouldn't have to go to the food bank in the first place.
But hey, keep giving. I'm sure someone out there will enjoy that can of sardines, or cellphone, or whatever it was you decided you didn't want anymore. Keep up the hard work, boys.
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So, what do you suggest? Those 'bandaid' solutions are what I can afford. Like many people, I've never had the luxury of being born into a wealthy family or having an extremely well paying job so I'm limited to what I can give.
I've done more than giving "that can of sardines" to a food bank. I've helped by proof reading cover letters and resumes for people who were job hunting, donating clothing and many other items (both food and non-food) to different charities as well as helping a couple of recent immigrants with English while they were going through school here in Canada.
But I've now seen the light! That obviously means f**k all!
I'm no hero but at least I'm doing what I can to help while keeping myself alive. As for joining protests and other activities, who's going to pay my bills? I get a criminal record, I lose my job and the only time I get paid is when I'm working. Just like a lot of other people who "offer bandaid solutions".
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Wu
Location: here
Gender: Female
Locked to the Rock since '94
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 29 on 11/16/2006 7:56 AM >
| | | | Posted by Particle Man
Ah UER, where enemies are made on the internet out of silly topics.
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:: grins::
The answer is clear,
We must destroy the internet.
"Talk is Cheap because supply exceeds demand" |
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natxtron
Location: memphis
urbanesquelation
| |  | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 30 on 11/16/2006 8:36 AM >
| | | | don't destroy the internet... give it to the homeless.
Are you now, or have you ever been? |
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 32 on 11/16/2006 3:56 PM >
| | | |
I normally try to keep my nose clean around here, and not into politics so....
This is all relative to what you find political and irrelevant.
--Illegal Immgrants -- also receive support from some unions because guess what? - a large portion of thier cheap labour is people here on expired work permits, and not suprisingly their family members who they bring into the workforce.
That whole nobody is illegal protests did nothing for me. People working under the table, not paying taxes and taking work from locals doesn't and will never jive with me.
Aboriginal protests in Caledonia -- Um, don't native peoples all have systemic issues about poverty? Guess not.
Palestian Guerillas -- Those words arent even in the article. You gone and created a new angle. Its extremely political. One country was bombing the shit out of another one -- which didn't even have the same capacity to defend itself. israel is second in the world for military spending after the US.
How you frame this story depends on what side your sitting on. As for OCAP supporting Palestine? That is a broke ass country. I'm sure they probably will do something in Darfur too, if they get around to it.
Taxi Drivers --- If you knew anything about hospitality services you'd know that these people get paid like shit, and that they are really dependent on their tips. Being a doorman is extremely lucrative position and you can only get this job through a good hook-up. While these assholes don't paid too well, they rake in big cash.
The limos pay these assholes under the table, and they call the limos instead of cabs. The hotels act like they dont know what's going on (and they are all in on it) and the cab drivers get screwed. All while its illegal.
Its very expensive to own a cab (over $100,000) and you have to run it 24/7 to make a ok living. EVer see who driving the cabs, its 70% LEGITIMATE immigrants.This isent really a poverity issue because the doorman arent below teh poverity line, nor are the cab drivers.
This is probably the one thing OCAP shouldn't stick their nose in, as there is much going on including organized crime. I'll levae it at that.
How does that help John Doe on the sidewalk with his empty bottle of rum? Easy, he got there somehow didn't he? Maybe he couldnt find work, maybe he was a drug addict. Maybe he lost his job and his stupid morgage folded. Not everyone has equal opportunities in life. The people that usually end up on thet street aren't ONLY drug addicts and lazy people, its peopel who don't have a social support network. So they have nobody to turn to when they lose their job and lose everything else.
The people that think that their are equal opportunities in teh world for everyone are usually the ones who get BMV's for christmas and think they are working class because they work for their father. These are also the same people who make $30,000 and somehow they can afford to live in $450,000 condo. And Jane Pitfield.
Poverty has many faces and people dont go homeless overnight.
[last edit 11/16/2006 4:01 PM by Air - edited 1 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 33 on 11/16/2006 4:09 PM >
| | | | Posted by rainman8889
Considering the crap they tossed around, violent protests etc, I have no sympathy for them. They don't give a damn about the homeless. They just want to cause trouble. That is one of the reasons they lost the union support they had a few years ago.
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Um, no they lost CAW support because they criticised some of their practices. And this was before the 2000 protest with the rocks being throw which I missed by about 10 minutes as I was in the area earlier.
http://www.nowtoro...21/news_story7.php
Now, all I got say is if the union really believed in their case, would they stop financially supporting them over a few 'ill word'? Hell no.
The union was using OCAP to further their causes, and image -- including faking sympathy for the poor and downtrodden.
I'd hardly call CAW members poor and downtrodden. That is one of the best unions to belong to.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 34 on 11/16/2006 4:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by natxtron
don't destroy the internet... give it to the homeless.
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I think its great that the decentralization of the internet makes this impossible.
Its what makes it sooo cool.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 35 on 11/16/2006 4:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by Swamp Thing
1.) A decent householder policy can be had for as cheaply as $10 a week. It's a contractual requirement for most mortgages, too. If you're not in a position to pay that, you're not in a position to own a home.
2.) You don't get to tell me whether or not I may speak.
3.) I absolutely have the right to judge a person who is begging money from me.
4.) For your information, I have lived below the poverty line for most of my life. I'm doing quite well now, thanks for asking. The difference between my life then and now is the result of more hard work than you can possibly imagine.
5.) There's no such thing as "a bad deal in life". Your life just is. It's you who has to deal.
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1.) I agree, if someone can afford to have a home they OWN they should have insurance. If not then maybe they shouldn't have a home they own. Reminds me of stupid rich kids I went to school with who thought OSAP was great and how they don't qualify. Yeah, you really need OSAP when u have a luxery SUV and your own CONDO! Fuck!
3.) I don't like begging either. I'm sure others dont like begging either, some people just can't do anything else...which is where this becomes a social problem. Both because society has failed to provide these people an education, and now they ar eharassing the rest of us who also dont have money and not the asswipes over in rosedale.
4.) I'm trying to be senistive here to what you said, and I'm really not picking on you -- seriously, but your ability to succeed is dependant upon u to have anability to do something (a job, a trade, whatever), having sufficent motivation to do so, and being provided a opportunity to do so. If someone doesnt provide you with a job, all these things are utterly useless. And this takes me back to the "No one's Illegal" discussion earlier.
Supporting illegal works is a total contradiction (for OCAP) to helping the working class poor in our country, never mind the homeless. Illegal workers are only good for large corporations as cheap expenable labour. And most of these illegal workers in Toronto are Portguise and Phillipino.
Perahps OCAP is receiving support from some large corporation.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 36 on 11/17/2006 12:55 AM >
| | | | Posted by Swamp Thing
(And I promised myself I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore. Damn!)
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Meh, don't feel so bad. I promised myself I wouldn't get overheated about this topic. So much for that promise. 
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Air
Location: Canada
| | Re: O.C.A.P. Takes Over Abandoned Building
<Reply # 37 on 11/17/2006 12:57 AM >
| | | | Posted by rainman8889
Meh, don't feel so bad. I promised myself I wouldn't get overheated about this topic. So much for that promise.
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As micro said its better then talking about UE'ing houses.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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