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 lago1
Location: the 'Go
 |  |  | Laser pointer to security camera lens
< on 11/20/2003 2:09 AM >
|  | | | Conventional wisdom states that if you shoot a simple laser pointer beam into the lens of a closed circuit security camera, it will disable it. Some people think it will white out the image, others think it causes more of a burn in that lasts for a long while, effectively disabling it even after you've turned the beam away... Any of yall know if either of these theories are correct? And if the latter is true, how long will the damage last?
Additionally, I was told by a guy who claimed to be an experienced phreaker or something that if you have a radio frequency transmitter of 1 Watt or less on your person, it will disrupt any security camera looking it. I don't know if I believe this... back when I did pirate radio, we had a fairly standard Hyundai closed circuit camera and monitor to look out for cops, crackheads, and thieves in the alley we used as an entrance. Though we never pointed the camera at the transmitter, it was placed within 10 feet of a 30 Watt source. While the antenna was 100 feet away, I'd assume that some bleed from the transmitter should have interfered with the camera if that's what happens. Anybody have some insight on this? I'd rather not have to shell out for a 1 Watt portable RF transmitter just to test it.
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Mark
     
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 1 on 11/20/2003 2:31 AM >
|  | | | I remeber the radio thing to. On a side note that may only effect older cameras. Im sure its also frequency based. I'll see what I can find on it. The laser thing I know the old ones it would blind. I dont know if they have compensated for it. I will do some reserch into it. Thanks for the thing to think about.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 2 on 11/20/2003 3:49 AM >
| | | | I can get my sony handycam to go blank with a walkie talkie. With a gmrs radio placed close to the camera and transmitting, the camera will get fuzzy, and then go blank. If I hold the radio close to my tv, it gets fuzzy, and I can convince it is lost a video signal, and get a blue screen.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Intalex
This member has been banned
Ascended Being
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 3 on 11/20/2003 4:26 AM >
| | | | Closed circuit cameras most certainly are NOT affected by radio frequencies. By law, they have to accept any incoming radio interferance without causing poor performance.
Shining a laser pointer into a camera does blot out what the camera can see, but consider the following points;
1. In order to get the laser pointing in the correct angle to disable to camera, you would have to come within plain view of the camera.
2. If it is just a standard "laser pen", then the second you walk off, the camera would come back on again, unless you balanced it on the floor, after wrapping tape over the button in order to keep it pressed down.
3. Even if you did manage to disable the camera, a security guard or technician would still come out and take a look at it.
4. Due to the intense radiation of the sun, this laserpointer idea would only work at night.
During a light hearted conversation, me and a friend had an idea that involved firing a black sticky sucker onto the lens of a security camera. This would most certainly block out the vision of the camera, and would make a good diversion to get the guard out of his monitoring position.
We ditched the idea as being possible, but unlikely.
"What's that smell?" "Oh that would be me, I've been swimming in raw sewage, I love it!" - Naked Gun |
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scourge
Location: United States
Gender: Male
strive
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 4 on 11/20/2003 4:50 AM >
| | | | Interesting. Cause some kind of disturbance in view of the camera, then back off to a safe distance and hide. Observe with binocs. Time how long it takes the guard to show up, and you know how long the litle screens will be unwatched. Of course this assumes that the same guy who watches them is the guy who comes out to check on them.
sierra hotel |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 5 on 11/20/2003 4:51 AM >
| | | | errr if you notice the same laws apply to your camera and camcorder. I suggest someone test it. Although your theory is valid it may not be accurate. I believe that the Family radios have the same label and sun spots cause problems among other things.If I were home I could test it but not here.
Also the laser thing wouldnt be to hard. You know those cheap laser pointers. All you need is some hever gauge wire and a make shift base. Tape the laser pointer on the stiff yet bendable wire and place the base on the floor. Cut the pie and aim the little pointer.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Intalex
This member has been banned
Ascended Being
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 6 on 11/20/2003 5:04 AM >
| | | | What about the radios that the security guards MAY have to use on site? These cameras are designed to withstand that sort of thing.
They come incased in an impact resistant case, and have shatter proof glass infront of the lens. Sometimes even the cable going from the camera is covered in metal weave to prevent cutting.
And seriously some of these cameras move every so often. What happens once the camera moves? You cant keep going back to reposition it.
It's a kinda fun james bond like idea, but really I don't see it working.
"What's that smell?" "Oh that would be me, I've been swimming in raw sewage, I love it!" - Naked Gun |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 7 on 11/20/2003 5:34 AM >
| | | | Well obviously the moving cameras arent going to be effected. however if they do move then that may be your window of opertunity. Also if you leave the laser and use it as exit corridor then if the camera is pointed in that direction again your still covered. Food for thought. The idea isnt that far out landish.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Intalex
This member has been banned
Ascended Being
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 8 on 11/20/2003 5:37 AM >
| | | | But as I said, in order for it to work, you personally have to come into plain view, leaving behind the laser pen. The security guard will most likely come out, confiscate the laser pointer, then start searching for you.
Then they'll replace all the locks for stronger ones, increase the level of security etc. etc.
Total nightmare.
"What's that smell?" "Oh that would be me, I've been swimming in raw sewage, I love it!" - Naked Gun |
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Avatar-X
  
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| |  | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 9 on 11/20/2003 2:41 PM >
| | | | Radios don't affect cameras unless it's a wireless camera and you hit on the exact frequency.
I routinely carry 5watt+ radios around with me, and they dont really affect anything electronic, it's not that powerful.
huskies - such fluff. |
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shiroi
Shiroi is a big hat!
Gender: Male
The Green Bastard From Parts Unknown!
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 10 on 11/20/2003 3:34 PM >
| | | | Well Av, Stan had told me something about motion sensors. I'm not sure if what he said was realistic, but he said a couple of guys had come with their LED flashlights and shined their lights at the sensor for about ten minutes slowly advancing but steadily. "Eventually the sensor had adjusted to too much" he said. Apearantly it worked with some of his sensors, you would know about this.
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Phreak480
Gender: Male
| |  |  | | | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 11 on 11/20/2003 6:47 PM >
| | | | that blurb about the cameras accepting any harmful interference doesn't mean tehy have to accept it without having an problems just that they are succeptible to outside interference and that it is the end users problem if such conditions occur and it probably also states that the item shall not casue any harmful interference (found on some items)
but yeha my frs walkie talkies can sometimes spaz out the keyboard on my computer and cause it to not work and my 2-way radio which pushes about 5 watts always locks it up and i've got cb's that pump out about 20-30 watts and those bleed over anything with a speaker in about every house in my court and i took them all out for sure when i had my linear amplifier and pushed about 300 watts
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Stalker
Location: Hamilton
Your Resident Red Commie Bastard
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 12 on 11/21/2003 12:27 AM >
| | | | Laser pointer is not effective anymore. Well not so effective like it used to be. Old cameras will be totally blind for about 15 sec. (Even a flashlight was enough). After that they will recover. Modern cameras will recover almost right away. So you have to shine the laser all the time. But it'll blind a camera for sure.
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Stalker
Location: Hamilton
Your Resident Red Commie Bastard
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 13 on 11/21/2003 12:33 AM >
| | | | Ohhh yeah. Anything radio will not affect the cameras.
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lago1
Location: the 'Go
| | | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 14 on 11/21/2003 1:43 AM >
| | | | First of all, thanks for all the input. I do believe that some radio interference may disrupt the cameras, but I'm just not sure how to find out how much and where it should be placed. At work here, the CRT monitors will basically shut down if you put two basic Motorolla walkie-talkies on either side and press the button to transmit. You have to wait a while before you can turn the monitors back down. Don't know if the same kind of interference would mess up a camera, but then again, I doubt I can climb up with two walkie talkies to find out.
As for the specific site I have in mind, I think that the laser idea would work. For one, I have seen all of the exterior cameras and they appear to have been installed sometime between 1985-1995... almost certainly no later than 1995. This means that we may be able to get that 15 second whiteout somebody mentioned happens in older cameras. So far as having a laser on a tripod, that would be very doable. The building is located in a busy downtown area where people across the streets and on sidewalks constantly enter the camera's viewing fields, even at night. Somebody stooping over to aim a tripod wouldn't stand out, and since the area is sort of a central business district backwater, there are plenty of places to hide the pointer where passersby wouldn't notice it.
As far as the monitoring station goes, don't ask me why, but I know what it looks like. There are nine completely stationary (they do not ever turn to scan) cameras whose viewing fields are simultaneously displayed on a 13-inch TV. The resolution is pretty shitty and the monitor is black and white. Additionally, the security desk is not even always manned.
Somebody mentioned that security would be increased if this building is messed with, but I find that unlikely; it is already a budget vacuum and in its decrepit state, the owners are reputed to simply wish to sell the building. I have the economy to thank for it, and many other local buildings, continuing to be empty.
Any more input is appreciated. Thanks, peace.
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Intalex
This member has been banned
Ascended Being
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 15 on 11/22/2003 3:34 PM >
| | | | Just stay out of the view of the cameras, and use your common sense. If you cant beat them you can at least work around them.
Some of the cameras aren't even real for a start. These are often easily told apart from the others, as they wont rotate, sometimes dont have the same flashing LED, and are even a completely different model from the rest.
Plus, cameras that are on show and quite obvious are usually deterrent fakes. Look around the site for ones in less obvious locations, then try to avoid those.
And most the time, the individual cameras all output onto one splitscreen monitor. So the chances of them at least seeing motion are high. Unless you specifically know otherwise, it's best to assume that this is how they have it set up.
A good tactic that I derived from watching a TV show, is to draw up a map of the site, everything drawn to scale. Include the security cameras and the angle they face, then estimate their field of view. Once you've worked out what the cameras can see, you know what they can't see, and you are then able to work in blind spots.
"What's that smell?" "Oh that would be me, I've been swimming in raw sewage, I love it!" - Naked Gun |
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Servo
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 16 on 11/22/2003 6:44 PM >
| | | | Oh man... don't anyone read this thread and think that laser pointers or radio transmitters are going to have any effect on cameras. What a steaming pile.
The only thing I see that might work is setting up a laser on a tripod, but unless the laser shines directly into the camera, it's not going to blind it. Nor will it have any effect on permanently or even temporarily blinding/damaging the camera even if it's shone directly in. CCD bakeout would take a much stronger laser than any of you will be able to get your hands on.
As for the radio transmitter... you wouldn't be able to haul around one big enough to cause any kind of major interference.
[last edit 11/22/2003 6:46 PM by Servo - edited 1 times]
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Stalker
Location: Hamilton
Your Resident Red Commie Bastard
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 17 on 11/22/2003 8:46 PM >
| | | | Well should I just hookup my Panasonic CCD
That just collecting dust on my shelf plus my laser pointer
And make a small video. It should clear some confuzed minds over here.
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Mancubus
| | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 18 on 11/23/2003 6:56 AM >
| | | | It won't disable the camera if you just point it into the camera and walk off. You have to position it so it stays pointed at the camera lens. Make a cradle for it or something so you can adjust where the beam goes.
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Laser pointer to security camera lens
<Reply # 19 on 11/23/2003 7:04 AM >
| | | | Thanks Mancubus, that was very enlightening... Wanna try reading the earlier posts? - "a laser on a tripod", "having a laser on a tripod" ...
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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