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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10   UER Forum > Archived UE Main > Deggi Vs UER Article (Viewed 5730 times) el nerdo  Chief UER Lackey Gender: Male What are you, from the Department of Know'm Sayin's? You takin' a Know'm census?  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 140 on 6/7/2006 7:28 PM >   Posted by Samurai Noobs... chill and wait your turn. Relax. Keep posting. Gives the management insight. Management... chill and keep your heads about you managing the fucking place. The rest of us... kick back, post on who you think is sexiest, drink something, drool at pics of place and relax... this is just the internet. Samurai Hey Samurai... shut the fuck up. yokes  Location: Toronto Gender: Male I aim to misbehave  |  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 141 on 6/7/2006 7:33 PM >   "Most explorers like going alone more often than in packs." I can only speak for myself, but I rarely-never go exploring solo. Partly it is a safety thing (this past weekend I fell through a floor.. mind you, the rest of my group had moved on to another part of the building...), and partly it is the enjoyment of experiencing a building with like-minded friends/people. I get more enjoyment out of group exploring that I would solo. "Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel Samurai  Vehicular Lord Rick Location: northeastern New York No matter where you go, there you are...  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 142 on 6/7/2006 7:38 PM >   Posted by el nerdo Hey Samurai... shut the fuck up. thanks, Nerdo... for a minute, I was feeling almost intelligent and along you come. Samurai el nerdo  Chief UER Lackey Gender: Male What are you, from the Department of Know'm Sayin's? You takin' a Know'm census?  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 143 on 6/7/2006 7:42 PM >   Posted by Samurai thanks, Nerdo... for a minute, I was feeling almost intelligent and along you come. Samurai Anything for the oldtimers, my friend. Tyralus  Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Gender: Male  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 144 on 6/7/2006 7:52 PM >   Posted by 'Dukes Nut tech, that's not the point... it just shouldn't have been done in the first place. Do you call yourself an "urban explorer"? I don't. To me it's a "join the crowd" moniker. This online stuff used to be fun back when everyone was taken with the things others had seen. Sense of wonder; Dumbass 'Dukes in the mountains gets to see something in Scotland, some dumb rube in Alabama gets to see what I have seen. Not anymore. Now it's just a big "I'm more hardcore than you " fest. It's becoming "unfun" very quickly. Let's all go back to the time when screen names and websites didn't mean shit. Sense of wonder. That's what it's all about. I want to go back to the time when people weren't afraid to say "wow, that is awesome, can you access it?" Instead ego makes people silent, asking questions is akin to admitting that you don't have a clue. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have a goddamn idea how to get into some Masshole asylum or a taco stand in Texas; I haven't been there. All very well said. I wish I could've been around at that time. Personally, I don't really give a damn what goes on with the online community, as long as it doesn't affect the experience of exploration in reality. Everyone's getting way too caught up in the online drama, don't be an armchair explorer, go out and have some fun! Krawnik  Location: Kingston/Toronto Gender: Male Raiders of the Lost Architecture  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 145 on 6/7/2006 9:25 PM >   Posted by micro However, I think Kowalksi and Honorabright's statements tend to put everyone, including myself, on the defensive. People who seek no more than occasional fun, or a greater understanding of the world around them, are made to feel as though what they're doing is somehow wrong. For myself, the notion that we have to "make a difference" or look at things a specific way is a bit off-putting, if only because it fails to embrace the more introspective, sometimes deeply personal aspects of what we do. If I ever end up making a difference to anyone, I would hope that it was the end result of me doing things I was genuinely interested in, not things that others expected me to do. I think this is the wisest thing that's been said all topic. I told myself I wouldn't bother posting in this topic, since I don't know or care a lot about the politics of the hobby, but I had to stick my head in to mention that I think Micro's sentiments are dead-on. Kowalski and Elizabeth have some great, mind-expanding things to say, and as a fancy-pants college boy, I usually even agree with what they're saying. The problem is that it seems so aggressive when they say it. As if to imply that doing anything less than personally restoring the site to its former glory is in some way shaming the hobby. There's a lot of merit to what they're saying, and I agree that we should at least make an effort to do more than photograph a site when conceivable, but I also think there's nothing wrong with just enjoying a site and seeing something you otherwise would not have. You may call it selfish to hoard the site for myself, and I'm willing to admit it is a bit selfish to tour the site and then leave it in obscurity. But I do what I do for the experience, selfish or not. And while in the future I would like to participate more in the protection, or even restoration, of some sites, I think it's perfectly healthy to just enjoy a site for yourself. But I digress, it looks like for the most part we're all friends again? Haha, cheers? friggin' racists messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women. RIP, Ninj. 'Dukes  Noble Donor Gender: Male At least someone llikes me  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 146 on 6/7/2006 9:36 PM >   Posted by fopjn01 I have been skiing since about 1978. In the 80's you would most often find me at Mad River Glen Vt., where there was a don't ask, don't tell attitude towards skiing in the woods. I remember the day I found the 19th hole, and dropped in. I was way over my head, but a little research paid off, and I discovered a secret powder stash. I guard it's exact entry point closely. Being an "Extreme Skier" became the thing to be. By the mid-90's skiing in the woods was so popular, that many ski areas were cutting glade trails to attract 'hardcore/extreme skiers' to their crappy yuppie infested mountains. Now you can ski in the woods along side accountants, lawyers, and their sniffling offspring anywhere in New England today. The true explorers among us are the ones you hear the least from. As for me, I'll be clicking my tails on trees in the woods. Do you have a spiked Mohawk like Glen Plake? If the answer is no, then you suck! I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. LizBellum  Gender: Female Be really excellent at everything!  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 147 on 6/7/2006 10:15 PM >   All I was asking you to do is clarify this statement Posted by The_Man_in_Black Do the things we do make a difference to anyone? I would argue that yes, they do. by telling me how, or better yet, providing an example. You mentioned register nominations and research projects, and I was hoping you might have something tangible to share. I guess you were just be extremely general and vague, so nevermind. But, if by 'to anyone' you meant 'to me,' you should have said so. Or at least defined what making a difference entails, since it was your phrase. Posted by micro However, I think Kowalksi and Honorabright's statements tend to put everyone, including myself, on the defensive. People who seek no more than occasional fun, or a greater understanding of the world around them, are made to feel as though what they're doing is somehow wrong. I've never said, or implied, that people should feel like they're doing something wrong because their motivation is personal enjoyment or fulfillment. I've actually gone out of my way, here and elsewhere, to defend that angle, especially because being intellectual 100% of the time is a fucking bore. Like me. But I have to stand up for fucking bores all over the world when hobbyists claim to be professionals of sorts. Posted by Krawnik Kowalski and Elizabeth have some great, mind-expanding things to say, and as a fancy-pants college boy, I usually even agree with what they're saying. The problem is that it seems so aggressive when they say it. As if to imply that doing anything less than personally restoring the site to its former glory is in some way shaming the hobby. Restoring a site to its former glory? Naw, man, just naw. A) I'm not a preservationist. At all. I have a professional philosophy that's pretty antithetical to preservation aims (professional preservation, that is), so unless they're buying the drinks, they stay in the Black House, and I lurk in storage vaults. B ) Besides occasionally being a bit rude in forum postings, I'm extremely passive in my opinions about exploration and other's experiences. I don't fetishize locations, so I don't really care what condition they're in. You can read buildings, you know, and I think they're just as interesting tagged to hell as they are pristine. I just want people to be more realistic. Read what desmet has posted, read what Kowalski has posted, ad finem. There are a lot of ways one can participate in this hobby; a lot of people have ideas about using it as a starting place for experiential stuff, and I find that very interesting, obviously. I see a lot of potential in that, and if anyone wants to talk about that potential, I'm more than willing. In the meantime, taking photos of old buildings isn't doing something particularly grand. If it makes you happy, I'll celebrate that with you, but I'm not going to let you call it a form of preservation or serious work off handedly with nothing to support your claim. And dealing with Civil War buffs all day has made me write in second person. I'm sorry. flickrgrrrrl :: boyfuckingracer dixiesquare   |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 148 on 6/7/2006 10:19 PM >   Posted by blackhawk Where is dixiesquare? Haven't been back since this thread was first posted. Sorry, I don't live on the internet! Would you have rather I not posted the article? It is funny that this thread has pretty much proven the article right. But damn people, relax!!! What could the circulation of this article be? "sadly alot of explorers in Chicago are 'park hipsters who take boring pictures to impress girls who smoke Parliaments and listen to Wilco." Explorer Zero   |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 149 on 6/7/2006 10:57 PM >   Posted by dixiesquare It is funny that this thread has pretty much proven the article right. it has proven something else that many of us already knew, those that can, do those that cant, piss and moan a lot on the Internet about those that do [last edit 6/7/2006 10:59 PM by Explorer Zero - edited 1 times] Krawnik  Location: Kingston/Toronto Gender: Male Raiders of the Lost Architecture  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 150 on 6/7/2006 11:24 PM >   Posted by elizabeth Restoring a site to its former glory? Naw, man, just naw. A) I'm not a preservationist. At all. I have a professional philosophy that's pretty antithetical to preservation aims (professional preservation, that is), so unless they're buying the drinks, they stay in the Black House, and I lurk in storage vaults. B ) Besides occasionally being a bit rude in forum postings, I'm extremely passive in my opinions about exploration and other's experiences. I don't fetishize locations, so I don't really care what condition they're in. You can read buildings, you know, and I think they're just as interesting tagged to hell as they are pristine. Ah, sorry for misunderstanding you. I hate accidentally putting words into peoples' mouths. I too am quite passive regarding other peoples' motivations, I try to have a "live and let live" attitude to as much a degree as is reasonable. As in, if someone claims to be urban exploring, and they more or less adhere to a more or less agreed upon series of criteria (don't break anything, don't steal anything, etc), I don't care why they're doing what they do. As long as someone isn't vandalizing a site and claiming to be an explorer, I don't mind if someone has entirely philanthropic, or merely appreciative intentions. friggin' racists messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women. RIP, Ninj. Avatar-X  Alpha Husky Location: West Coast Gender: Male yay!  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 151 on 6/8/2006 1:34 AM >   I've been impressed with the quality of the discussion here. A lot of good discussion has taken place. I don't want to lock this thread, but right now it has degenerated to name-calling and fighting. Those posts have been deleted, but if this continues I will be forced to lock the thread. -av huskies - such fluff. nutekk  Location: Central NJ Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 152 on 6/8/2006 1:47 AM >   i'm still trying to figure out why people are members of uer ... if they get nothing out of it ? especially if they are on d5, which according to them , is so much better than here ?? ... just like anything else, if you arent happy here, leave !! i've met quality people here, and have nothing bad to say about the site. i appreciate the way it's maintained as well. it's definately time to lock this thread [last edit 6/8/2006 1:52 AM by nutekk - edited 1 times] cheers ! " Take only pictures, leave only footprints" The_Man_in_Black  Location: Near Buffalo Gender: Male Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist..  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 153 on 6/8/2006 2:08 AM >   Posted by elizabeth All I was asking you to do is clarify this statement Posted by The_Man_in_Black Do the things we do make a difference to anyone? I would argue that yes, they do. by telling me how, or better yet, providing an example. You mentioned register nominations and research projects, and I was hoping you might have something tangible to share. I guess you were just be extremely general and vague, so nevermind. But, if by 'to anyone' you meant 'to me,' you should have said so. Or at least defined what making a difference entails, since it was your phrase. By it's very definition, the term "anyone" is a generalization. Had I posited the theory that my actions made a difference to you in particular, I would have been more specific. However, to answer this question... yet again.. yes, I feel that what *we* do (as a community mind you, not just me) can make a difference to others. What those differences might be are subjective to the person performing it, and the persons whom it may (or may not, you could argue) affect. Photographic documentation is most definitely a form of preservation, albeit (as I also stated previously) a minor one. Be that as it may, if one keeps a photographic record of a site, especially of a site that has been demolished, it at least helps preserve the memory of that location; it helps others to see what once was. I certainly never claimed that my meager point and shoot skills made me a professional. I was speaking solely in the aforementioned context. Preservation does not have to mean restoration of a site. Those ideas can be mutually exclusive of one another. Most of the sites we visit/view are far beyond that point, and serve primarily as conduits to a moment frozen in time, which we are fortunate enough to experience, at least for now. When Picasso painted "Guernica", it was his way of preserving/documenting the horrors of the Spanish Civil War. He did not need to physically preserve a battle site in order to preserve the moment. And yet again, as previously stated - I am not a professional preservationist or photographer or writer. This is my hobby. Be that as it may - images and research and information that others have provided on the web, and in person, have made some difference for me - either through the very tangible (being able to see a location that I would otherwise not ever be able to), or through the intangible (inspiring me reflect upon the lives of those who lived/worked in an abandonment, etc). I can only hope that the photographic documentation and research that I've done might some day have a similar impact on others. My apologies to all for such a long post. TMiB I miss ednothing.. and Glass.. and Seicer.. and Jester.. and Chainsaw.. and THD.. and Mike D.. and Crossfire.. and Noah Vale.. and Maynard.. and pixie.. and Mr. Yuk.. and Worm Wirsbo.. and Miss_Informed... and dev.. Rest In Peace, dev. newenglandkid  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Gender: Male  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 154 on 6/8/2006 2:13 AM >   Just checked out the article - interesting to say the least, but you forgot to include the link to Mikes site (it was under the article). Cheers! http://www.mikedijital.com/ edit/ added link [last edit 6/8/2006 2:16 AM by newenglandkid - edited 1 times] blackhawk  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: Mission Control UER newbie  |  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 155 on 6/8/2006 2:24 AM >   "The_Man_in_Black" the fact that you actively try to protect a site from harm makes you a preservationist. Documenting a site with pictures is as good as it gets next to being there in the flesh. It will preserve the site to some degree regardless of what fate will become it. Most historical pics are dry anyhow so great photographic skill is not required to document sites. The day you sell one of those pics, you are a professional photographer. Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in. fopjn01  Location: Springfield Ma. USA Gender: Male  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 156 on 6/8/2006 2:52 AM >   Posted by 'Dukes Do you have a spiked Mohawk like Glen Plake? If the answer is no, then you suck! The secret is the residual wax in the iron. If you have done things right people won't be sure if you have done anything at all. kowalski   |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 157 on 6/8/2006 4:05 AM >   Post by The_Man_in_Black Photographic documentation is most definitely a form of preservation, albeit (as I also stated previously) a minor one. Be that as it may, if one keeps a photographic record of a site, especially of a site that has been demolished, it at least helps preserve the memory of that location Why aren't there any threads in the Photography forum about how people might better photograph sites in order to leave a legacy of documentation that would prove useful to future historians and other scholars? Why don't people discuss what are valuable things to shoot, things that we might otherwise pass over because they might not be the most visually arresting elements of the building, but are perhaps more historically valuable than that hallway full of open doors? Why aren't there any discussions regarding what additional documentation should accompany your photos -- things you should be recording at the time of the shot and in general while you're inside the location (or after the fact, from memory) that again, would make your photographs more valuable as a documentary record of the ruin? It would seem to me that these sorts of things don't get discussed because no one here actually cares about historical documentation, it's just a convenient trope which can be used to provide the appearance of purpose in justifying aimless activity to others and to yourself. Posted by micro For myself, the notion that we have to "make a difference" or look at things a specific way is a bit off-putting, if only because it fails to embrace the more introspective, sometimes deeply personal aspects of what we do. I'm hardly one to toss away introspection. But if that's what our practice is going to be about, then there's no need for these forums and the websites and all the rest of these trappings. When we organize ourselves in a community of sorts and hold discussions about what we do, we abandon the purity of introspection and personal enrichment and take on more serious responsibilities to accomplish something with what we're doing. When people stand here and talk about how this or that will "ruin" (ironic, that) or "damage" urban exploration, they are operating with a construction of the practice that does aspire to something more than a passive solipsism, even if that's objectively all that they themselves practice. Self-enrichment has its limits and its diminishing returns. By not attempting collectively to produce narratives and historiographies and other recordings with context and lasting value, we shortchange ourselves as well as each other. To grow individually, it's long past time that we began sharing with each other and observing in a more conscious manner observations and inferences and ideas that go beyond where the next abandonment is located. The_Man_in_Black  Location: Near Buffalo Gender: Male Rodents Of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist..  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 158 on 6/8/2006 4:11 AM >   Posted by kowalski Why aren't there any threads in the Photography forum ... Why don't people discuss ... Why aren't there any discussions regarding ... Heck if I know. Ask the folks in the photography forum. I'm lucky to even remember my camera sometimes. TMiB I miss ednothing.. and Glass.. and Seicer.. and Jester.. and Chainsaw.. and THD.. and Mike D.. and Crossfire.. and Noah Vale.. and Maynard.. and pixie.. and Mr. Yuk.. and Worm Wirsbo.. and Miss_Informed... and dev.. Rest In Peace, dev. Krawnik  Location: Kingston/Toronto Gender: Male Raiders of the Lost Architecture  |  Re: Deggi Vs UER Article <Reply # 159 on 6/8/2006 5:06 AM >   Posted by kowalski Why aren't there any threads in the Photography forum about how people might better photograph sites in order to leave a legacy of documentation that would prove useful to future historians and other scholars? Why don't people discuss what are valuable things to shoot, things that we might otherwise pass over because they might not be the most visually arresting elements of the building, but are perhaps more historically valuable than that hallway full of open doors? Why aren't there any discussions regarding what additional documentation should accompany your photos -- things you should be recording at the time of the shot and in general while you're inside the location (or after the fact, from memory) that again, would make your photographs more valuable as a documentary record of the ruin? Why not start such topics yourself? I'm not trying to be snotty or anything, it's just that this is interesting stuff worth discussing, if you ask me, and you seem to have some important things to say about it. I'd definetly participate in a thread like that. Maybe you could try making the topic about it instead of just putting us down for doing what we're already doing? I'd love to read what you have to write about the topic. friggin' racists messing up my generalizations, also stealing my jobs, women. RIP, Ninj. UER Forum > Archived UE Main > Deggi Vs UER Article (Viewed 5730 times)  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 156 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 741752900 pages have been generated.