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 Samurai
      
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
 |  | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 40 on 10/30/2003 8:41 AM >
|  | | | What were the books? I'm just curious...
But see what I mean about a sense of time? Those books, with their notes in the margins, are windows into a day in the life. Doesn't matter that it was a ho-hum existence or whatever.
I'm a philosophical freak tonite... damn.
Samurai
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El_Gordo_Uno
Location: Wenatchee, Washington
Gender: Male
This post brought to you by Allan Smithee
| |  |  |  | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 41 on 10/30/2003 9:33 AM >
|  | | | The one time I've taken something while out "exploring" was on this occasion:
http://www.new100mph.com/Exploits/Mischief26.html
I don't know if you'd consider it "stealing" the sign was laying under grass where it had been shot to hell by hunters over the past 30 years. The company doesn't even exist anymore. Though I did look up the phone number listed on the sign and it belonged to a certain famous Spokane city resident who happens to have committed several murders.
I won't post it here because the number has since been re-assigned.
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges |
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Reuben O Reilley
warning: this person steals from sites.
Location: Durham Region
Gender: Female
My eye is a lense my subject is the worlds beauty
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 42 on 10/30/2003 11:41 AM >
|  | | | Well let's take a second here to think of places that gage might be researching. I know he searches whitby psych and I think taking stuff from there is A O K. Because if you don't take it someone else will or some "whatwhats" might set it on fire.
As for the "museum" comment: I know a guy who has colected some pretty awesome and rare things from buildins and YES! he is in fact starting a museum. So why shouldn't Gage hold on to his stuff in case one day they are found valuable.
Also, I don;t think Gage can be 100% sure the buildings he explores aren't set for demolition anytime soon. I would beilive that's only a guesstimate.
i'm definitely shaking the silence isn't breaking |
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Ninjalicious
 
Gone, but always with us
Location: Toronto
| | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 43 on 10/30/2003 4:11 PM >
| | | | Rube: There are lots of good reasons for Gage (or whoever) to leave things in place when he doesn't have certain knowledge that a place is about to be destroyed. Maybe you should re-read this thread.
Ninj
http://www.infiltration.org
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uem-Mokonax
Location: Montréal, Canada
| | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 44 on 10/30/2003 7:01 PM >
|  | | | Posted by tonydukes
Weirdo? I think that a)that's very unfair to say based on a post on a forum, and b) you don't know where the guy explores, maybe he's right and a lot of the stuff he's seen has ended up on the demolition list. A lot of museums have exhibits of ancient history, which are all categorized , e.t.c.., people don't necessarily label them "weirdo's"
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Sorry. Heh. I should have posted with a little smile afterward. I was half-joking. Well, maybe only a quarter joking.
"Dark blue is the geek's black." - Tux, OPE 95
Urban Exploration Montreal |
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 45 on 10/30/2003 7:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by Ninjalicious
I think I get you. In your first message ("I've chosen to trespass, but now it's wrong for me to steal? Gimme a break. Quit moralizing the one over the other"), you seemed to be saying that because case B (illegality) was true of both trespassing and stealing, that it was therefore hypocritical or silly to discuss whether or not case A (morality) was true of both. You seemed to be saying that B overrode A, though you admitted A was still worth considering. I'm saying that A overrides B, though I admit that B is still worth considering.
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I'm considering an AB reply, as soon as I can override your post.
Dude, there's more common ground than not, between us.
[last edit 10/31/2003 2:36 AM by MothMan - edited 2 times]
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MothMan
Noble Donor
Location: The Gem City
Gender: Male
If you didn't bring back any pictures with you then you obviously weren't there!
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 46 on 10/30/2003 7:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by DarkTreader
I consider what we did to be salvaging, because we saved those books from being destroyed. With the state that the rest of the place was in, I'd say no one gave a damn what happened to anything else in there, as long as it wound up in a dumpster.
Crucify me if you want, but I feel that what I did was right. These are pieces of history - with notes scribbled in the margins and everything.
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Crucify you? I can't and I won't. It's what I would have done for exactly the same reasons. You KNEW those artifacts were going to be destroyed...
[last edit 10/30/2003 7:33 PM by MothMan - edited 1 times]
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Reuben O Reilley
warning: this person steals from sites.
Location: Durham Region
Gender: Female
My eye is a lense my subject is the worlds beauty
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 47 on 10/31/2003 12:36 AM >
| | | | if you don't take it someone else will.
Thats my philosophy
i'm definitely shaking the silence isn't breaking |
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kowalski
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 48 on 10/31/2003 12:56 AM >
| | | | If you don't take it, someone else - and potentially many others - will get to see it, and then will have to make their own value judgements on whether to take it or not. Hopefully they will also decide not to.
Regardless, by not taking something, you've ensured that at least one other person would get to see it. By taking it, you've ensured that you'll have one more dust collector that you'll eventually throw out somewhere down the line.
If you're there to explore, leave things be.
[last edit 10/31/2003 12:56 AM by kowalski - edited 1 times]
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DarkTreader
Gender: Male
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 49 on 10/31/2003 6:01 AM >
| | | | The two books that I kept for myself were Plutarch's Lives and Palaemon and Arcite. There were a few other boots that my companion kept, such as an old shorthand instructional book and Anne of Old Vincennes (I think that was the name of it).
footsteps light, flashlights bright
-~ DT
Losers go home... winners go home and fuck the prom queen |
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Lunis
Location: Durham Region
Gender: Male
Oh The Pleasures of Camo
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 50 on 11/2/2003 5:35 PM >
| | | | Posted by Detroit
- Take nothing but pictures (or memories if you don't have a camera)
- Leave nothing but footprints.
The temptation to take cool stuff is ever present but I think it is just wrong. The fact that I can resist that urge and leave the cool stuff for others to see after me makes me feel like I deserve the title of Urban Explorer…. not just Trespassing Thief.
The way I look at it UErs in general get off fairly easily when we are confronted by authorities and property owners. From my experience most people seem to "relax" when the see that all I am doing is taking pictures and looking around.
The more people take stuff, the more chances there will be irate property owners and authorities who don't give a damn what we are doing, just that we are trespassing.
Many people will argue that there are plenty of people who are not UErs who go into old buildings to pick up scrap and such and that if they do it why shouldn’t we?
Go ahead… but you will be doing so as a thief not as a UEr. Even abandoned places and the stuff in them belong to someone.
Take a picture, hey, you can even take two! Then you’ll have twice as many cool mementoes.
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"Takte Nothing But Pictures...Leave Nothing But Foot Prints"
Damn thats good i agree whole heartedly.... I think that its bad Karma to take something from an abandon place whether its to save it from demo or not... Its Disturbing the state of rest of the building... Just like when you destroy/breake parts of the building... not cool.. Tagging is a mixed topic a small tag written with a marker saying "joe Schmo Was here" i don't really have a problem with but when u right in big letters accross a main wall that "JUMBO DICK WAS HERE" i think thats not cool..
Keep Searching
Lunis
back from a long break |
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Asylunt
Location: MPLS
Gender: Male
The Friendly Beer!
| | | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 51 on 11/6/2003 12:01 PM >
| | | | I honestly don't know why I am even still reading this thread, it just says the same thing over and over again. Hell, why am I posting and keeping it going?
Anyway, my two cents.
Yes I have been in the slated for demolition scenario before and I took things. Part of what some of us do is be a amatuer historian/archeologist, some of the places we explore allow us to learn and understand so much, while the place is standing it is it's own museum, but it will eventually fall and more than likely it's history will be forgotten or so filled with holes that noone will understand completely. When I see an example of 19th century life, in good condition I have to ask myself, how long will it survive? Depending on the location I make a choice whether or not I will take/steal/preserve. I don't take trinkets or souvineers, that is what I think we all agree is wrong. Salvaging a mint condition geiger counter from a pile of birdshit, that's not wrong. It would have been stupid to leave it. That's my opinion. I think we have to face the fact that we explore mortal places, just like us, these places will eventually die. The world changes around us, I think it's great that we are a loosely organized group that works to remember these changes. We all make choices, these are our choices, we can choose to abide by the UE code based off of general consensus. I think it's a lot like spelunkers, of course they follow a similar code, but also they do research so that humanity has a greater understanding of the speological ecosystem. I have turned things I found over to a local historian before, he in turn made a little exhibit about the place I explored, at the City's little history museum. The exhibit was only there for a week, but it was the week after the site got demolished. I don't know how many saw it, but I assume at least a hundred or more did. Most of them children. More than likely those few items wouldn't have survived long enough for those children to ever see outside the museum.
Basically, I guess if your intentions are good and not selfish, it's your choice to make. I don't want to see people trying to take everything, but neither do I want to watch all of us get old and still be talking about the olden days when we saw a perfectly preserved sheet of "Inverted Jennies" laying on a desk in some abandoned building that got razed a few years later.
Ahh... What the hell, You all hate me anyway for making you read such ramblings.
Asylunt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain |
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El_Gordo_Uno
Location: Wenatchee, Washington
Gender: Male
This post brought to you by Allan Smithee
| | | | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 52 on 11/6/2003 1:56 PM >
| | | | Not to sidetrack the thread but, Gieger counter covered in birdshit?
Was it a Gieger counter or an old Victoreen CD survey meter?
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges |
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Frozen
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Three-D
| | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 53 on 11/6/2003 5:33 PM >
| | | | Okay I'll try to keep this short for those of you who have just read 52 posts on this.
1) I make my decisions based both on morals and consequences of my actions (laws). About 50:50
2) Morally speaking, I think it's okay to take something from a building facing imminent destruction. And even okay to take the occasional small thing (something that you will use and it won't be missed too much by others) from an abandoned building not facing destruction. For example, I took 6 subway stamps a few weeks ago and bought myself a subway sandwich (except they make you pay a buck for the medium drink now...grr). I think that's actually the only thing I've ever taken.
In summary - stealing = generally bad but sometimes okay
Wow I sure made an original post. 
Urban Exploration |
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RevSM
Location: South Central Texas
| | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 54 on 11/6/2003 6:14 PM >
| | | | I can just imagine it:
Cop catches you in the abandoned building.
“Did you steal these subway stamps from this building?”
“Do what now?”
“That’s it! I’m arresting you for stealing these valuable coupons redeemable at your local Sub-way™ sandwich shop for a free 6 inch sub!”
"who where wha huh???"
Tetanus for Breakfast!
http://www.shatteredshutter.com |
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Samurai
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 55 on 11/7/2003 5:51 AM >
| | | | El_Gordo- It was a geiger counter. The instructions for operation were still in the box as were the batteries. I thought it was kinda neat. I walked away from it when me and Willy explored the rest of the place, leaving it where it was on the little engine, but in the end, I was weak and it came home with me on the 2nd expedition.
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Frozen
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Three-D
| | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 56 on 11/7/2003 8:53 AM >
| | | | Posted by RevSM
I can just imagine it:
Cop catches you in the abandoned building.
“Did you steal these subway stamps from this building?”
“Do what now?”
“That’s it! I’m arresting you for stealing these valuable coupons redeemable at your local Sub-way™ sandwich shop for a free 6 inch sub!”
"who where wha huh???"
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I made sure to spend those things quickly in case someone found me out! Actually it was pretty funny. Some of the stamps were this odd green color and some other color they haven't made for years and the cashier gave me a bit of a funny look when I used them.
Urban Exploration |
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El_Gordo_Uno
Location: Wenatchee, Washington
Gender: Male
This post brought to you by Allan Smithee
| | | | | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 57 on 11/7/2003 2:06 PM >
| | | | That is a most excellent 'rescue' Sam. Not something you see everyday either. What kind of building did you find it in?
Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges |
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Lunis
Location: Durham Region
Gender: Male
Oh The Pleasures of Camo
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 58 on 11/7/2003 2:33 PM >
| | | | Mortal men Exploring mortal Buildings
Wow Asylunt thats really deep and a good way of looking at things...
For the Record i don't hate you
Keep Searching
Lunis
back from a long break |
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Samurai
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: Stealing or salvaging
<Reply # 59 on 11/8/2003 7:44 AM >
| | | | From what Will and I gathered, I think it was an old fire station for the mine. The front doors were frozen shut and the side door had to be accessed by us digging the snow away from the bottom half of the door and crawling through a hole in the bottom of it. When we explored the Macintyre in February or march, there was about 4 or 5 feet of snow in some spots. On the video, Willy has me up to my chest in the snow where I had gone through the crust.
samurai
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