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UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
Mr. Yuk 






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 160 on 4/4/2006 10:01 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Damien Nightbane
Here's a hint, dev. Once you post anything on the internet, you lose control of it. Effectively, everything online is public domain simply because of the nature of the internet.


Posted by Damien Nightbane
In short, take your shit and go make your own database. Nobody wants your piss poor attitude here.


this is an accepted form of behavior?

dev 

Passed away September 23rd, 2006.






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 161 on 4/4/2006 10:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
oddly enough, around here, it is implied that things are NOT in the public domain. RE/ trust/level system?

i'm just saying that future would-be-contributors to the LDB should be well-warned in advance how the DB works, and let them know that they will not be able to remove the information that they chose to submit.

my biggest problem right now with the DB is that some 14 year old kid could show up and post exact addresses to all the locations in my hometown, then after they all get boarded up (again), and that kid moves on to some other eXXXTreme hobby, i'm stuck with having the local abandonments overblown due to some fuck up.

big dave 


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Gender: Male


big baller

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 162 on 4/4/2006 10:10 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Damien Nightbane
Here's a hint, dev. Once you post anything on the internet, you lose control of it. Effectively, everything online is public domain simply because of the nature of the internet.


WRONG. Copyrights and properties still apply on the internet. If i was to post a picture of my car on the 'net, and you post it somewhere else without my permission, you have violated copyright laws even if i failed to note it on my property. Just dont even go there, dont try, i work in a law office.

An armed society, is a polite society. So lets get to it!
desmet 




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 163 on 4/4/2006 10:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Okay, so let's solve the DB issue right now. What's done is done and it's probably too complicated and not worthwhile to try and undo, so how about this as a suggestion: Av should add a small disclaimer stating what you can remove and what you can't and information about who will be able to see the info and who won't.

Does that sound reasonable? Can we avoid another 10 pages of crazy arguing over it? I think it's fair to say that not spelling this out caused issues for people even though they probably should have known better, but that a solution going forward is really NOT that complicated. Av wants the DB, you want to know what you're getting in to by posting to it. So, spell that out from the jump.

Is that reasonable? How about some suggestions to modify that idea rather than more fingerpointing.

Ricotta 

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De arimasu~

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 164 on 4/4/2006 10:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
The law is irrelevent, as laws tend to not extend across international borders. If the image is hosted in another nation, you're SOL. Plus, no copyright law can prevent people from saving the data or images to their hard drive, uploading it somewhere else, and so on. You'd be better off trying to collect every drop of a beer spilled into a lake than trying to stop the spread of something on the internet.

dev 

Passed away September 23rd, 2006.






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 165 on 4/4/2006 10:23 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by desmet
Okay, so let's solve the DB issue right now. What's done is done and it's probably too complicated and not worthwhile to try and undo, so how about this as a suggestion: Av should add a small disclaimer stating what you can remove and what you can't and information about who will be able to see the info and who won't.

Does that sound reasonable? Can we avoid another 10 pages of crazy arguing over it? I think it's fair to say that not spelling this out caused issues for people even though they probably should have known better, but that a solution going forward is really NOT that complicated. Av wants the DB, you want to know what you're getting in to by posting to it. So, spell that out from the jump.

Is that reasonable? How about some suggestions to modify that idea rather than more fingerpointing.


would work great for me.

won't stop me from making sure that the local newbies don't post up locations like mad, but would be a great first step.

desmet 




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 166 on 4/4/2006 10:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by ghostkilla


WRONG. Copyrights and properties still apply on the internet. If i was to post a picture of my car on the 'net, and you post it somewhere else without my permission, you have violated copyright laws even if i failed to note it on my property. Just dont even go there, dont try, i work in a law office.


This is all well and good in theory but you and I both know it is virtually meaningless in practice. This is doubly true in a situation like this when simply exposing a person to the information causes a chain reaction which propogates it out regardless of any copyrighted works.

I wonder whether uploading it to someone else's site WITHOUT any copyright information or restrictions would affect the legality of it all...but again...WHO CARES? This is a meaninglessly contentious point that's not going to get us anywhere.

Mutt 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 167 on 4/4/2006 10:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
This is one of Av's best April fools Jokes.

All men are cremated equal.
desmet 




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 168 on 4/4/2006 10:26 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by dev

would work great for me.


Excellent.

Posted by dev

won't stop me from making sure that the local newbies don't post up locations like mad, but would be a great first step.


Okay, but why do you have a right to determine what can get posted and what can't? What if one of your postings blows up a spot that one of the newbies cares about?

conscience 


Location: Central Denver, Colorado
Gender: Male


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 169 on 4/4/2006 10:30 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Since this has changed to the LDB thread instead of the elections thread:

The problems being raised scale up to large governmental organizations, and "the Government" itself as a collective of such entities. You don't see any Americans chomping at the bit to abolish the Library of Congress, though it serves the same purpose to the American population as the LDB does to UER. Regardless, the Library of Congress is a testament to the knowledge collected by the culture which supports it. How the culture makes use of that information is up to the individual members thereof.

Assuming that Av hand-coded the LDB from the ground-up: Given the large amount of data already present and the current behavior of the application, changing the architecture of the system would be a massive undertaking. As in MONTHS of work for Av to finish by himself. Finding an open-source solution which fulfills everyone's requirements would be equally painful as it would have to be interfaced into the existing framework (a task in itself) and the database ported (another extremely complex and difficult ordeal).

Unless Av happens to find himself in a position where he can dedicate every waking hour to development or outsources it, for which WE would have to pay, this probably isn't going to happen at any point in the near future. What would probably help would be a page or section explicitly detailing how the LDB functions so that expectations are properly set.

And now for something completely on topic:

Av is withdrawing. He has stated as such, and his wishes should be respected regardless of the circumstances. What needs to be done is to not try to convince him to change his mind or take a vacation, but to allocate a contingency plan. A solution. Infighting, finger-pointing, and debating semantics do nothing to contribute to this.

There are obvious fears over croneyism or popularity contests. Equally obvious is the amount of distaste over shifting responsibility to a counsel. Managing a successful Internet site does not involve the implementation of a democracy. It involves a sort of "false fascism", if you will. Each site wants to be superior and crush the rest. As such, there will always be a single individual with ultimate veto power, and there will always be countless other websites (i.e. D5, S(ue), ad infinitum) which aim to satisfy those who are unhappy with the mainstream (UER in this case).

My two cents on the elections in particular:

If general elections are held, I believe they should only support single-person platforms. In such a situation, those who are considered "popular", "formidable", "pervasive", or any of the other words I've seen used to describe people with some degree of social status should step back from nominating themselves or their peers. An appropriate nominee would be a UER Everyman, not a UER Elite. It would then fall to the Elites to provide their advice and counsel to the Everyman when needed. The Elites would have veto power over the Everyman by unanimous vote only. The Everyman would have single-point veto power over the Elites. If a veto deadlock occurs the issue is put to a general vote by the Full Members of UER.

This process could also be inverted, with all issues being put to a general vote first and the method of implementation negotiated between the Elites and the Everyman.

If you've bothered to read this far, thanks for indulging me.

Chuck 


Location: Chicago
Gender: Male




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 170 on 4/4/2006 10:36 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by desmet
Okay, so let's solve the DB issue right now. What's done is done and it's probably too complicated and not worthwhile to try and undo, so how about this as a suggestion: Av should add a small disclaimer stating what you can remove and what you can't and information about who will be able to see the info and who won't.

Does that sound reasonable? Can we avoid another 10 pages of crazy arguing over it? I think it's fair to say that not spelling this out caused issues for people even though they probably should have known better, but that a solution going forward is really NOT that complicated. Av wants the DB, you want to know what you're getting in to by posting to it. So, spell that out from the jump.

Is that reasonable? How about some suggestions to modify that idea rather than more fingerpointing.


If you want to solve the problem, the division in our hobby, get rid of the LDB.

That is how you solve the LDB issue, that is how you bring everyone together too.

It may also help to get rid of all the "Flavor of the week" members, but that isn't really possible.

If you don't have a problem with the LDB, you are ignorant and really have no care or love for the hobby.

Flame all you want, I've said it before and I will say it again, the best part of Urban Exploring is EXPLORING!

Chuck

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands. - Clint Eastwood
Jonsered 


Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male


Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 171 on 4/4/2006 10:49 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Chuck
If you don't have a problem with the LDB, you are ignorant and really have no care or love for the hobby.

Flame all you want, I've said it before and I will say it again, the best part of Urban Exploring is EXPLORING!

Chuck


Chuck, I'm not going to argue that the best part of exploring is exploring. Thats a given. I'd rather be in a mine than in the DB anytime. However, there are plenty of times that I don't have half a day to drive to a location, find a way in, spend several hours checking it out and photographing it, and then make it home. I can however, spend 15 minutes looking at a mine that Dukes or Freak has posted. So I'm living a little vicariously through them for a moment. Big deal. Your calling everyone that doesn't agree with you ignorant, and stating that because they don't agree with you they don't love or care for this hobby is over the line. So you've got a graduate degree. This should allow you to look down on everyone that doesn't see things your way? Artistic pretension, nothing more. I love exploring old places, and from looking at your bio, I've been doing it longer than you have. Don't lump me in with taggers and vandals because I don't see eye to eye with you on this issue.

Regardless, it has been brought up that this isn't really the issue yet. The current point is how do we select the next governing body for UER. We can hack and flame each other over specifics later.



I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.

Noah Vale 


Location: Portland, Or


It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 172 on 4/4/2006 10:57 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
You "love it or leave it" people sound like my government.
Sad that.

This place was a cool place to discuss UE before the DB. Correlation =/= causation, but it's something to think about.
[last edit 4/4/2006 10:58 PM by Noah Vale - edited 2 times]

"Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj.
conscience 


Location: Central Denver, Colorado
Gender: Male


Tea in the dark.

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 173 on 4/4/2006 11:10 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Noah Vale
You "love it or leave it" people sound like my government.
Sad that.


Maybe so, but nothing is going to change the fact that the LDB isn't going anywhere.

So, elections?

Roadwolf 

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Location: Buffalo, NY (formerly Toronto, Canada)
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 174 on 4/4/2006 11:11 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by DjMalign
But whatever. "reputation" and "status" is the whole problem with this flawed system. Its come down to popularity contests, and half the users on here haven't moved on from a high school mentality. This at the very least should be a colorful and beautiful explosive death.


I fully agree. as sad as it seems.. this is where uer is headed.

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Jef 

This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 175 on 4/4/2006 11:12 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Hows this people, The LOCATION DATABASE is not going anywhere. It is going to stay here. like it or not. If you do not like, its very simple LEAVE, FUCK OFF, Don't come back, too bad.

Stop your whining and crying, bitching and moaning. LEave take everything you can with you and leave.

We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste.

William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948
'Dukes 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 176 on 4/4/2006 11:14 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Mutt, you are spot on! Now I'm laughing; the guy really does have a sense of humor; how I didn't see through his whining "I don't feel safe rant" I don't know.

I love it. The joke is on you chumps that hate the LDB because some 12 year old rug rat can post pics in the same "Super stealthy location" that YOU did. In one fell swoop Av just, no, YOU did it to yourself, revealed how fragile your internet posting internet living, chump egos really are.

Have some ya primadonnas.
I been had too; he had me ; he posted a really stupid joke with Deggi 6, and then he suckerpunched me with the sadsack routine; and made us all look pretty pathetic in the process.




I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying.
Roadwolf 

The Wolf!


Location: Buffalo, NY (formerly Toronto, Canada)
Gender: Male


Living on the Road and Rails.

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 177 on 4/4/2006 11:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by EvilNick
AV why not just take the web site down? If it's giving you that much grief take it down. It seems lately that most people who post wants to do nothing but complain about stupid stuff.

Heres an idea.. take the forums down but leave the LDB, "Tutorials Lessons Useful Info", and "Photography" up.


i also agree... at this point it might be better to save this site in its prime. shut down the forums. and keep the site up as a archive. just like UEC did.

Av, you said yourself when you started uer, when questioned about hwo you were goin gto run the site, you said that you didnt expect this site to be as big as it became.

well, fail to plan = plan to fail as they say.

making rash decisions now and abruptly changing the polotics of uer will isolate atleast 50% of the uer community. fighting will ensue, and people will take stances on various sides.

i would say atleast 25% of the population of uer are highschool kids. and we all know how immature high school kids can be.

so all i am saying, is that you shouldn't expect this to be the solution to any problems...

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Roadwolf 

The Wolf!


Location: Buffalo, NY (formerly Toronto, Canada)
Gender: Male


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 178 on 4/4/2006 11:18 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Age restrictions would help. from a legal and maturity standpoint.


Posted by seicer


Which never works unfortunately. You could go as far as to follow by COPPA regulations, which all forums are *supposed* to abide by but never do (another failed US policy). COPPA basically states that you gotta fax the admin (AV) some shit about your age and whatnot.

But hey, I'm a 50-year old guy. What can I say about this subject...




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Armed Geoduck 


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Gender: Male




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 179 on 4/4/2006 11:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I think that we need to get back on topic here...on that note, I think this is a great idea...props to Av.

Tact is the ability to shut your mouth before someone else wants to. :)

UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
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