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UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
Raticus 

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Location: Tyler
Gender: Male


Ratus exploricus abandonae

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 140 on 4/4/2006 6:32 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Jonsered
I don't know Kowalski or most of the others leading this charge, so I have no idea what their problem is with the LDB, and frankly I don't care. As AV said, 1,000 people have contributed over 120,000 photographs and countless hours of their time to this creation. Its bigger than a group of explorers (no matter how popular or respected) having a personal problem with it. Does this group have a larger say than the 1,000 who seem to like the LDB just fine? I sincerely hope not.

Peace!


I have several problems with the changes being proposed, this being one of them. There is no effective way that the populace of this community can "know" who we are voting on other than reading that persons posts and now listening to the "politification" of their bid to be at the top. People keep talking about power this, and power that. That freaks the hell out of me. A place like this should not be about power, at all. It should be, like others have said, a resource. In fact, that's part of the name. It's a website that happens to be a resource that allows contributions by the members who participate. Anything other than that will cause this site to lose it's life blood.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.
DjMalign 


Location: Fort Collins, CO
Gender: Male


Sexy, sexy, sexy

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 141 on 4/4/2006 6:51 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Chainsaw

Please give me one example of a situation where I deleted someones post without explanation. I've NEVER done that, and you know it.





I cannot say which mod confided to me about it and their complaint seemed valid. If this isnt true and you wont be abusing powers then everything is fine, right?

But whatever. "reputation" and "status" is the whole problem with this flawed system. Its come down to popularity contests, and half the users on here haven't moved on from a high school mentality. This at the very least should be a colorful and beautiful explosive death.

I hate all of you
Mr. Yuk 






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 142 on 4/4/2006 8:52 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Jonsered
Seems to me the LDB is going to become the single major bone of contention in this matter. Damn it, its like the Alexandria Library of UE. Its a resource, and a catalog, and a compendium of people's visits to a place and more. If its deleted (or locked down, which amounts to the same thing) then the thing which I think drew lots of people to this site in the first place will be lost. I don't know Kowalski or most of the others leading this charge, so I have no idea what their problem is with the LDB, and frankly I don't care. As AV said, 1,000 people have contributed over 120,000 photographs and countless hours of their time to this creation. Its bigger than a group of explorers (no matter how popular or respected) having a personal problem with it. Does this group have a larger say than the 1,000 who seem to like the LDB just fine? I sincerely hope not.

Peace!



The problem with the LDB is simple. There are 2 reasons:
1) Control of content. Freak posted earlier about the lack of control in everything but the pictures. Let's look at an example:
I start a new entry in the LDB for the abandoned post office in Springfield. To this entry, I include pictures, history, addresses, and whatever else I see fit to add. Now let's say a few weeks later,my good friend comes along and posts a few pictures, adding to my entry. For whatever reason I decide I do not want my contribution to be a part of UER anymore. Tell me that the info I had posted, all of it, will be COMPLETELY gone. It won't. because someone else had posted photos to my entry, it is no longer my entry. All the info and research put into that entry becoming forfeit is acceptable to most people here?
2) Socializing. How can an internet forum develop a system of trust and have that system of trust speak for everyone? If I were to look at the LDB and pick a few places I wanted to visit while out east, I could do so without speaking a word to the locals there. I could go there to do whatever I pleased, be it take photos, steal things or piss my name in snow. Whatever. Noone would know it was me. By contacting people I can: meet someone new, explore a place that is not publicized, share stories, piss OUR names in the snow, get great photo advice, etc.

The point I'm trying to make is that the LDB is a big, fat, puss-filled pimple to this hobby we share, whether you care about it or not.
The problem is that by giving up control of UER, Av will not give up the LDB, therefore making this idea pretty poor. If the elected official(s) were to find that the populace of UER did want more control over the LDB, would Av enact their suggestion? Imagine that if a majority here said that having addresses in the LDB was a bad idea, would he make that simple small change? What about a grand change like allowing people to delete anything they have added, without asking first?

<E

Raticus 

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Location: Tyler
Gender: Male


Ratus exploricus abandonae

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 143 on 4/4/2006 9:09 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
One thing I have never understood... why would you even want to add something to the ldb, or forum, and then go back later and retract it? If at some later time your going to decide suddenly to take your ball and go home, then you shouldn't have posted sites in the first place. The logic behind what is being suggested is that I will post my sites for you to enjoy as long as you don't piss me off or offend me. If you do, I'll take my toys away. I don't think that makes sense.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.
Jonsered 


Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male


Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 144 on 4/4/2006 9:11 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Raticus
The logic behind what is being suggested is that I will post my sites for you to enjoy as long as you don't piss me off or offend me. If you do, I'll take my toys away. I don't think that makes sense.


F*&king A! If this problem concerns people, DON'T CONTRIBUTE! Just don't take charge of ruining it for those of us who do enjoy it and do contribute.



I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.

seicer 


Location: New York
Gender: Male




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 145 on 4/4/2006 9:11 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Raticus
One thing I have never understood... why would you even want to add something to the ldb, or forum, and then go back later and retract it? If at some later time your going to decide suddenly to take your ball and go home, then you shouldn't have posted sites in the first place. The logic behind what is being suggested is that I will post my sites for you to enjoy as long as you don't piss me off or offend me. If you do, I'll take my toys away. I don't think that makes sense.


Because situations come up that require the removal of the entry. For example, my entries were deleted (thank you AV) because of liability and security reasons pertaining to some recent events. They were also duplicates of those on my web-site, so I felt that maintaining two entries for one location was unnecessary.

Abandoned
dev 

Passed away September 23rd, 2006.






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 146 on 4/4/2006 9:14 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Raticus
One thing I have never understood... why would you even want to add something to the ldb, or forum, and then go back later and retract it? If at some later time your going to decide suddenly to take your ball and go home, then you shouldn't have posted sites in the first place. The logic behind what is being suggested is that I will post my sites for you to enjoy as long as you don't piss me off or offend me. If you do, I'll take my toys away. I don't think that makes sense.


it's never made clear when you post a location that you have little to no control over it, and absolutely no control once someone else contributes to it.

that's bothersome for people like me, who might have naively posted a number of locations in the DB, only to see them boarded up just a couple of months later, perhaps due to other "explorers" being blatant about what they were doing and then having neighbors complain and etc.

if it'd been made clear that once i posted information and pictures, that my information was then out of my control and it belonged to the "UER PUBLIC DOMAIN", i would have never posted a single thing to the DB.

Raticus 

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Location: Tyler
Gender: Male


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 147 on 4/4/2006 9:17 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by seicer


Because situations come up that require the removal of the entry. For example, my entries were deleted (thank you AV) because of liability and security reasons pertaining to some recent events. They were also duplicates of those on my web-site, so I felt that maintaining two entries for one location was unnecessary.


Yeah but those kinds of things aren't what I'm talking about. Reasons that can't be known about ahead of time, or weren't known, such as security, liability, double posts, that's not the kind of things I'm talking about. I'm talking about all the whining and pissing over the ldb from folks who want to post on Monday and then retract on Thursday because something didn't go their way. What you're talking about is a different matter.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.
EvilNick 


Location: rochester new york
Gender: Male


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 148 on 4/4/2006 9:19 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
AV why not just take the web site down? If it's giving you that much grief take it down. It seems lately that most people who post wants to do nothing but complain about stupid stuff.

Heres an idea.. take the forums down but leave the LDB, "Tutorials Lessons Useful Info", and "Photography" up.

<SaraBellum> He's been super aggressive lately. He also peed on my bed and my mom's couch.
<seicer> damn :(
<EvilNick> SaraBellum: boyfriend problems?
-MisfitStyle- 


Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 149 on 4/4/2006 9:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I have no motivation to go back and quote the relevant posts on this one, but I would like to quickly post this, to address the concerns voiced. If anyone has any problems with the way the current moderating team is doing their job, I encourage them to get in touch with us and we can talk it out. DjMalign, if you feel I have needlessly deleted your posts, PM me and we can talk it out.

I've already done so with one or two other users and we've always been able to come to a solution and leave on good terms. The moderators are not here to give you guys unnecessary shit, we are here to ensure the smooth operation of the forums and the make sure the rules are enforced. Sometimes, that means deleted some posts. However, we are not unreasonable people. Believe it or not, we would love to never have to delete another post or lock another thread. If anything, it would free up some time for us to just be able to enjoy the forums as members.

Once again, I encourage anyone with any issues to get in touch with myself, or another moderator. Instead of complaining in this thread, why not go to the source and sort it out?

"I feel like I just got in a battle of wits with some kid in a helmet I found licking a window."

Need help? Please use the Contact a Mod forum — I'm slow to see PMs.
Simian 


Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male


Fucking Bah

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 150 on 4/4/2006 9:25 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Locations ARE NEVER YOURS. Only if you've bought and own them. By listing a loc here you are contributing to a database. Someone else has posted pics in "your" loc so it won't be deleted? Seriously. Delete your pictures and piss off. By doing that you've cleared the bulk of your contribution, and you can still go further and remove the history and all of your "hard work" that you did in an hour sitting in front of the "internet." The LDB has plenty of control given to it's users. What you need to get in your head, is the reason WHY you want to pull "your" loc. Security maybe? Too many kids threatening to steal things or piss their names in snow? That's the problem. Idle threats and immaturity should not be tolerated. The LDB is not the problem here. Av is not the problem here. For the most part the mods are not the problem here. People are the problem. Off the members, tweak security and the approval process, and this will be a much better place. What the hell, add an age limit too.

seicer 


Location: New York
Gender: Male




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 151 on 4/4/2006 9:28 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Simian
What the hell, add an age limit too.


Which never works unfortunately. You could go as far as to follow by COPPA regulations, which all forums are *supposed* to abide by but never do (another failed US policy). COPPA basically states that you gotta fax the admin (AV) some shit about your age and whatnot.

But hey, I'm a 50-year old guy. What can I say about this subject...

Abandoned
EvilNick 


Location: rochester new york
Gender: Male


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 152 on 4/4/2006 9:31 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by seicer
But hey, I'm a 50-year old guy. What can I say about this subject...


you look a little young to be 50 ;)

<SaraBellum> He's been super aggressive lately. He also peed on my bed and my mom's couch.
<seicer> damn :(
<EvilNick> SaraBellum: boyfriend problems?
Simian 


Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male


Fucking Bah

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 153 on 4/4/2006 9:31 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
When you have a "by meeting only" approval process it's easy as hell to have an age limit.

desmet 




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 154 on 4/4/2006 9:33 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Creeping Jesus, what in the hell is wrong with you people?

I've been discussing things online for a long time and I have never, ever seen such a childish and overly territorial group of people in my life. This debacle does not speak well of most of the people involved. Honestly I really haven't said anything when I've seen shit being talked about UER because I like this site just fine, but this is just NUTS. Here's my observations...

1 - The rules are the rules. Don't like the way the LDB works? Don't post in it. Pissed about some policy regarding it? Pull what you can, leave what you can't, and get on with your fucking life. When I first joined here I saw that you could upload files. Well, that's cool, but I don't want to release control of my images...so I didn't upload them. Boom. Done.

2 - Control of this website does not equal control of urban exploration. Some of you are acting like this website makes and breaks exploring. It doesn't. If this website goes away tomorrow no one here is going to stop exploring. So stop acting like your hobby is in jeopardy. Half the time people are bitching about exploring getting too popular and the other half they're fiendishly trying to "make the site better" presumably to attract people or to spread their knowledge to other people.

3 - He who runs the site, decides the rules. So many of you seem to have long standing problems with Av...so what the fuck are you still doing here whining about it? Leave dude alone. I may or may not agree with all the decisions he makes, but being here constitutes acceptance of whatever rules he decides. That's how web forums work. Don't like it? Move to USENET or start your own. When all those moderators resigned, that was the right thing to do. They didn't like it, so they chose not to participate. The moderators lived, the site stayed up, and new moderators were chosen.

4 - He who writes the code and deals with the hosting decides how the forum will work. Why are some of you debating the LDB? Don't think it's a good idea? Don't use it or leave. Av has apparently told those of you who have a problem with it that he's not going to remove it. That's the end of the issue. You made your argument and the guy who controls it said no. End of discussion. Stop fucking whining about it. You don't honestly think having an elected president is going to change that, do you? He still writes the code, he still owns the domain...he's sick of your shit but he is inseparable from the site unless he wants to sell it off completely. You're going to be dealing with him no matter what...so you can either make that interaction positive, or a horrible junior high school nightmare like you're doing now.

Listen, I really don't have enough experience with the board or the politics or the people to say whether some of the concerns aren't 100% valid. What I can say, though, is that if you are sticking around just to torture eachother and make Av feel uncomfortable about going places then you are a loser. If you want something changed have a discussion. If he isn't willing to change it then no matter how much you whine and cry and act like it's high school all over again, you're SOL. So leave the board, or stay and shut up and express your support if the subject comes up again. Dudes are letting this shit get so personal. In a sense this should be like a business. This board is not a friendship where good intentions and kind words write the code. At the end of the day it's one dude who writes the code and deals with the issues and all that. So, you deal with that and if things are just too far out of wack that you can't handle it, you leave and start your own board.

I'm not posting this because I want to big up Av and support him on every issue you guys are talking about. It sounds like some of you have valid concerns. However, he runs the site. Elected president or whateverthefuck, you're going to be dealing with him if you stay on this site. Period. So why wave your arms and make your relationship with him more and more and more and more uncomfortable and adversarial? I don't get along with every dude who runs every site I read or post to...but what am I going to do about it? Go kick their ass? Would that even change anything? You guys are wasting so much time bitching at eachother over shit that just ain't going to ever change. Talk to eachother civilly, drop the baggage from 10 years ago, try to hammer out an agreement that works for you, and if you can't, then leave. It's only going to blow up again down the road.

Xanadu 


Location: Las Vegas NV
Gender: Male




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 155 on 4/4/2006 9:35 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
So im 67. Today is my birthday!

On topic though, There shouldnt be an age limit becuase, av said this is open to everyone. But I havent read the thread so I dont know what im saying.

"Hey Fat Dave. <--Period"
desmet 




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 156 on 4/4/2006 9:36 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Simian
Locations ARE NEVER YOURS. Only if you've bought and own them. By listing a loc here you are contributing to a database. Someone else has posted pics in "your" loc so it won't be deleted? Seriously.


THANK YOU. The "I own the locations" thing is the most nauseating trait that I see. My sorry 3 month ass is sitting on a location or two that might be cool, but I'm not ready to give them up yet for a variety of reasons. When I'm ready I'll post them and accept the consequences. People here acting like they paid for the place and built it with their own two hands really pisses me off. If you don't want people going there, don't fucking post it. If you post it, you're SOL.


Ricotta 

Nobler Donor


Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Male


De arimasu~

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 157 on 4/4/2006 9:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Seriously. This "My location" shit is just sad. If you want to post a location and have complete control, post it on your own, private website. That way you can take it down at a moment's notice, and you can even password protect the site so that random explorers cannot find the location and piss in your snow.

In short, take your shit and go make your own database. Nobody wants your piss poor attitude here.

dev 

Passed away September 23rd, 2006.






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 158 on 4/4/2006 9:49 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by desmet


THANK YOU. The "I own the locations" thing is the most nauseating trait that I see. My sorry 3 month ass is sitting on a location or two that might be cool, but I'm not ready to give them up yet for a variety of reasons. When I'm ready I'll post them and accept the consequences. People here acting like they paid for the place and built it with their own two hands really pisses me off. If you don't want people going there, don't fucking post it. If you post it, you're SOL.



well, if there was a clear note somewhere saying "once you post to the LDB, YOU ARE SHIT OUT OF LUCK" on control of that information, i'd have no problem.

the problem is, is that when you decide to share that information, it is NOT made clear that you are placing it in the public domain and that you are giving up any sort of control over that info.

and for the record, when i had posted locations, my photos were NOT the meat of the post. i'd usually post 5-8 documentary-type photos. the research, dates, specifics, links to other sites, the information that takes real effort to compile, retaining control of that information is important to me.

i don't have anything in the LDB anymore, because i got wind of how it worked early enough to have everything deleted, but not early enough to know that i was giving away control of my research.

Ricotta 

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Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Male


De arimasu~

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 159 on 4/4/2006 9:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Here's a hint, dev. Once you post anything on the internet, you lose control of it. Effectively, everything online is public domain simply because of the nature of the internet.

UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
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