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UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
Avatar-X 

Alpha Husky


Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


yay!

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 120 on 4/4/2006 3:58 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Freak, please don't put words into my mouth.

The last time I wanted to step down as leader of UER, it was Ninj who convinced me to stay. This time, I don't have the benefit of his wisdom, and I miss him more than anything right now.

and you're scared of a little online argument?


Yes. It may sound silly to you, but it would be nearly inconceivable to me to visit a foreign city and explore there without Jester. It would make me feel like I am digging through someone else's laundry. I would not feel safe... not because I fear Jester, but because I fear not having him.

Jester, how many more times do you want me to apologize for the events of December, 2003? We've met each other since then and have had no problems, so obviously this can't have been bothering you as much as you say it does.

we were villianized and treated like something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe.


I'm not going to get into this issue again. I think you would agree with me when I say that no attempt to summarize the hundreds of posts and discussions held could ever be unbiased and fully accurate -- the only way it could ever be fully explained would be a complete and unedited timeline including the full text of all posts. But the issue is long over. So I will kindly ask you to stop attempting to summarize over 4 weeks of discussion with a single sentence.







huskies - such fluff.
Crossfire 


Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 121 on 4/4/2006 4:05 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X
I wouldn't have wanted to hand the site over to them either. The former mods are not representative of this community because they were not elected either.

Ever, or only because of the disagreements between us? To be perfectly honest, I'm thinking of running for this "council", because if it means I can try to make a difference and possibly have it go through, I'm going to go for it.

As long as I'm not already blacklisted.

And for the record, Av, I've never hated you either. If you decided to come out to K/W to explore something I would try to be as accomodating a host as my time would permit. It's a standing invitation, if you could bring yourself to do it.

C.

Disgruntled.
Avatar-X 

Alpha Husky


Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


yay!

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 122 on 4/4/2006 4:09 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Ever, or only because of the disagreements between us? To be perfectly honest, I'm thinking of running for this "council", because if it means I can try to make a difference and possibly have it go through, I'm going to go for it.


I think you would make a good council member.

The reasoning is that if you were, this time you would have two things that weren't there before:

(1) An elected position, indicating you have the support of the community
(2) A determined right indicating that your vote has meaning; that it will actually affect the outcome, instead of merely being an opinion or suggestion.

-av

huskies - such fluff.
nobody 


Location: VANCOUVER B.C.
Gender: Male


5:55 is a state of mind

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 123 on 4/4/2006 4:10 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 

Oh for christ sakes... Whoever could the prominent guy in Vancouver be ?


Quite obviously, it is me that Av speaks of. You know I try not to comment on a couple of topics, Politics is one of them. Listen, I really hope this idea works out for you Av, and that you can enjoy your life some more.

Sincerely. N.

Operating Entirely With Bad Intentions
Ricotta 

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Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Male


De arimasu~

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 124 on 4/4/2006 4:12 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by nobody



Quite obviously, it is me that Av speaks of.


Are you sure that it isn't J0lt?

scribbledaway 






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 125 on 4/4/2006 4:14 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X
T
I don't feel safe going to NYC to explore. Why? Because the people that run the UE scene in that town have disagreed with some of the decisions I've had to make for UER in the past and have taken out a vendetta against me. "the next step in the war on UER", they post in their board, while they predict the demise of this site.

I don't feel safe going to Massachusetts. Why? Because that's the domain of Mike Dijital, a person who both loves me and hates me at the same time, and changes his convictions at a moments notice. Right now, I'm on the "hate me" side again. This means I've been banned from their website and am not welcome.

I don't feel safe going to Vancouver to explore. Why? Because one man runs the UE Scene on that town, and he has made himself very prominent. Many times he has made it clear to me that the (few) other explorers in Vancouver are not worth my time. This man now hates me because of a disagreement we had, despite the fact that we've known each other since before UER started.

Need I go on?


-av


yes. go on. but do it with complete self honesty rather than this sketchy self defense. because if you're honest with yourself you'll admit that if that many people dislike you to the point where you feel THREATENED by them, there must be some kind of reason for it. it's not a global conspiracy to fuck with you, its direct response to your own actions. but if you cant look at those actions and say "ok maybe..." you're destined to a lifetime of this stupid shit.

and i have to say, no matter how much someone might hate uer or the things you say and do with it, i feel like it'd be too much effort to actuall go find you, if you were exploring in any of the abovementioned places, and fuck you up. if you're genuinely afraid to go, its fear you created. go. explore. wherever. you. want. to.
i've been kicked out of forums. i've been banned. hell, mike d is my friend and i've STIL been banned from his forum before. whatever. it's a forum. being banned never stopped me from calling him up and saying "wanna go to dsh?" or emailing with "hey mike, i was at this place..."
you have to seperate the forum from the relationship you have with the people on it. forum disagreements, bannings, etc, are not indicative of real life. you're really taking all of the disgruntlement much too personally if you think you're in actual danger. you are, however, providing loads of entertainment by stating it. the people you profess to be afraid of are laughing over it, that's how seriously they take it, and you, and your forum. now if you'd stop taking it seriously it'd all settle right the fuck down and you could go explore and ditch this pariah thing youve got going on.

hell, did i just ten penny lecture you? eh, what can i say. i'm an old fart and we tend to do that.
i have no personal opinion about you at all, only about the situation as i percieve it, and my perceptions of it have just been stated.
but if you ever come up/down here to nh, hell, i'll explore with you. i like to explore and i dont give a damn about forum bullshit. if you have you're own flashlight you're cool with me.





www.visceralaxis.net

If it’s too loud, go to the other end of the Market, down the stairs, to the waterfront, drown yourself. "...I become oblivious to the obvious, just ridiculous."
Avatar-X 

Alpha Husky


Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male


yay!

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 126 on 4/4/2006 4:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
you have to seperate the forum from the relationship you have with the people on it.


It's not possible. People, myself included, are unable to see that when I ban them for breaking a forum rule, it was their fault that they got banned, and not my fault personally for banning them (For example).

People will always hate the one who dishes it out, even if he is just doing his job.

-av



huskies - such fluff.
Ricotta 

Nobler Donor


Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Male


De arimasu~

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 127 on 4/4/2006 4:26 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
That's not entirely true, Av. I've been banned from a forum for legitimately breaking rules, and don't hold any grudge against the banner. It's when the ban is personal in nature and generally an abuse of power that the person in question gets a spot on the wall reserved for when the revolution.

Sadly, it would seem that most of the people you ban don't seem to be as reasonable as me. >_>

nobody 


Location: VANCOUVER B.C.
Gender: Male


5:55 is a state of mind

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 128 on 4/4/2006 4:54 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Damien Nightbane


Are you sure that it isn't J0lt?
Yes, as I believe he now lives in Japan. N.



Operating Entirely With Bad Intentions
nel58 


Location: montreal (st-henri) Qc
Gender: Female


yep..something's under..let's check ! (RIP Joséphine ,april 1998-october 2010 )

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 129 on 4/4/2006 4:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
OK....

After 7 pages,time for a break....why don't we all go for a walk,breathe a nice bowl of fresh air,pet the dog,hug the kids,find a new spot to explore..say to our friends we love them...

Then after,back to other pages,hoping for a nice solution..to that uncomfortable situation

Sorry to barge in like this,it was just my little "peace and love" contribution



x

scribbledaway 






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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 130 on 4/4/2006 4:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X


It's not possible. People, myself included, are unable to see that when I ban them for breaking a forum rule, it was their fault that they got banned, and not my fault personally for banning them (For example).

People will always hate the one who dishes it out, even if he is just doing his job.

-av




it's possible. as noted above, i was kicked off mike d's forum when it went from the neuea to d5. voted off the island, if you will. it had zero impact on my being friends with mike. it was inconvenient, as i had not yet saved all the emails of the people i was hooking up with to explore, but that's all it was was inconvenient.

it's possible if the people in question can find it in themselves to be reasonable.

the thing is, what other people do or think really is no big thing. they'll think what they want, regardless of anything you have to say. whatever. just dont cut yourself off from potential friends and exploring company over a forum.

yeah, uer is your baby, loved or hated it's still yours, but if it's all that big a pain in the ass, ditch the bastard, grab a flashlight and just go. don't even worry about who's running it or what they're doing. repeat after me "PEACE! BYE!"

geez, go have some fun.



www.visceralaxis.net

If it’s too loud, go to the other end of the Market, down the stairs, to the waterfront, drown yourself. "...I become oblivious to the obvious, just ridiculous."
nobody 


Location: VANCOUVER B.C.
Gender: Male


5:55 is a state of mind

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 131 on 4/4/2006 5:10 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by nel58
OK....

After 7 pages,time for a break....why don't we all go for a walk,breathe a nice bowl of fresh air,pet the dog,hug the kids,find a new spot to explore..say to our friends we love them...

Then after,back to other pages,hoping for a nice solution..to that uncomfortable situation

Sorry to barge in like this,it was just my little "peace and love" contribution



x



You are so right. N.


Operating Entirely With Bad Intentions
TehTwinz0rs 


Location: Bowmanville/London, Ontario.
Gender: Female




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 132 on 4/4/2006 5:39 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
For a website dedicated to urban exploration, you people sure spend a lot of time at home, bitching about internet politics.
I can't even believe what I'm reading right now...I had no idea there was so much hate floating around. Av can't go certain places because some pretentious UE members have vendettas against him?!
Are you actually serious?! That sounds so ridiculous to me.

I don't see any problems with keeping the LDB up and running. What about members that want to see the UE scene in other countries who aren't actually able to experience it in real life? What about the members that get so uppity when they take photos of new or previously visited locations and want to boast about the thrill they received in going there? What about for the sake of general interest and time passing?

I think the website and community that has been built here is incredible. Had I known there were so many people interested in urban exploring I would have joined years ago. What I'm saying is, feuds pretty much ruin everything for everyone. Av, I understand your need and want to step down, but I can only see this place turning into chaos. Although I respect your decision.

To think the lot of you have an appreciation for UE is beyond me. Go outside, breathe some fresh air, and get over yourselves.
I can't wait to see what will happen when urban exploration hits the mainstream.
What a bloody hoot that'll be.


EDIT: I came a little late. Those were my two cents.
Let the peace ensue.
[last edit 4/4/2006 5:40 PM by TehTwinz0rs - edited 1 times]

Roadwolf 

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Location: Buffalo, NY (formerly Toronto, Canada)
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 133 on 4/4/2006 5:44 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I am no longer going to comment, so long as I have full control of my Toronto Forum I am happy.



Add me on Skype or Steam: Roadwolf611

Charlie_Dunver 


Location: Montreal
Gender: Male




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 134 on 4/4/2006 5:49 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Well at long last there is something reasonable in what Nel and Leviathan are saying...


All this panic and name calling and rehashing the past simply creates a lose lose situation. It really is quite difficult to imagine that there is any kind of a rational voice at all capable of running this place, and the conditions under which any type of new management could operate are dysfunctional at best.

Any community in reality would be terrorized by the unhappiness and bitterness expressed around here.

A vacation is not going to change anything.

The type of change that is needed around here requires people to be mature, reliable and open minded. Too much work involved in that and too much ego that doesnt see it s own hand at work.

Sigh!

CD

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Crossfire 


Location: Kay-Dub
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 135 on 4/4/2006 5:54 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by TehTwinz0rs
Av can't go certain places because some pretentious UE members have vendettas against him?!
Are you actually serious?! That sounds so ridiculous to me.

I don't believe this is actually the case. I know Av is free to go and explore anywhere he wants, even though he feels otherwise.

C.

Disgruntled.
TehTwinz0rs 


Location: Bowmanville/London, Ontario.
Gender: Female




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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 136 on 4/4/2006 6:00 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Yeah, awkward sentence, what I meant there was that people shouldn't be weary about going certain places just because some internet folk made them feel uncomfortable.

That to sounds awkward. Oi vey.

Chainsaw 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 137 on 4/4/2006 6:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by DjMalign
That will happen with any new figurehead. period. Chainsaw? he's been deleting threads without explanation. Misfitstyle? been deleting my posts like crazy, sometimes warranted but mostly not. Do you really want these people to be running the site? I'm not attacking them personally, I actually went to chainsaw's site when I was discovering online exploration and loved his pics of the missile bases. yet their behavior while in a power position has been ridiculous.


How exactly can you spread lies about someones credibility and committment to their job then say it's not an attack?

Please give me one example of a situation where I deleted someones post without explanation. I've NEVER done that, and you know it.

Don't spread lies about people then say you aren't attacking. EVERY thread I've ever deleted is accompanied by an explanation, and usually a nasty threat. Since I've been a mod I've deleted MAYBE 10 posts in 3 or 4 threads that have gotten out of hand, yeah, that's me - crazy with power.

I have NO intentions of running for a policy maker position, it would affect my ability to be impartial while coordinating the election. Could I have taken the control position, I'm pretty sure if I'd offered to take over yesterday Av would have given it to me but *I* suggested the idea of having an open election and letting everyone have a say in who runs this boat.

I decided that using my position of authority on UER and the respect a lot of the old mods from UER have for me would make me the right person to make sure we got the word about this change out and everyone felt like it was being run in a straight forward manner.

This whole idea of a council, other than the election part is pretty much exactly what the group of mods that left wanted. If anything having an election and letting the members of this site have some say in it is an olive branch from av to the old mods to show that he really is serious about giving up authority and putting people that WANT control of UER in a position to TAKE it if they are willing to do some legwork and prove they have the support of the community to do it.

As far as myself and my dreams of glory go - well, I like being a mod and having full access to the site, I'd like to continue being a mod or enforcer under a new regime but I KNOW, I absolutely KNOW that If I ran for or just plain took control of this site I'd be inheriting all Av's problems and be painted as his patsy and puppet by everyone that Av is trying to make peace with through this change and I don't have ANY interest in BEING his patsy or APPEARING to be his patsy.

Av, Crossfire, Freak, Jester, Max Action and a hundred other people all probably see why I was appointed to run this election, because they all know I'm not Av's toady, but that I'm here as a moderator and participant because I have the communities best interest at heart.

Mike Dijital will probably tell you I'm a patsy, but that's just cause I've given him a boatload of shit because *I* happen to think he's a fucking thief. Av and my position here has nothing to do with it.

I've risked my reputation and the respect the community has for me by putting the screws to Av and getting him to promise me that he really does want to get out of the line of fire for UER but does NOT want to give up control of his code or give up server access to the board. He has promised to make changes and continue doing his administrative work at the direction of an elected council short of shutting down the board or *removing* huge chunks of it. Kowalski wants the UEDB GONE - Av's not willing to do that, but on the council Kowalski could probably do a LOT to make sure it gets locked down to his satisfaction.

I've also gotten Av's guarantee that we will have a FREE and OPEN election to *MY* satisfaction, including people like Max and Crossfire and Kowalski. I COULD have asked for and probably gotten control of this site, but I don't want it without the support of THE COMMUNITY and him just handing it to me wouldn't bring that. He didn't want to turn around and just hand control over to Crossfire and Jester because then he'd just catch shit from people that don't like Crossfire and Jester!

If you don't honestly think we can run a free and open election on THIS forum because of Av's influence I'd love to hear your ideas about setting up a separate site Av doesn't have access to to conduct the sensitive parts, he'd probably help us write the damn thing. Don't you get it? He wants out.

Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
Jonsered 


Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male


Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 138 on 4/4/2006 6:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Seems to me the LDB is going to become the single major bone of contention in this matter. Damn it, its like the Alexandria Library of UE. Its a resource, and a catalog, and a compendium of people's visits to a place and more. If its deleted (or locked down, which amounts to the same thing) then the thing which I think drew lots of people to this site in the first place will be lost. I don't know Kowalski or most of the others leading this charge, so I have no idea what their problem is with the LDB, and frankly I don't care. As AV said, 1,000 people have contributed over 120,000 photographs and countless hours of their time to this creation. Its bigger than a group of explorers (no matter how popular or respected) having a personal problem with it. Does this group have a larger say than the 1,000 who seem to like the LDB just fine? I sincerely hope not.

Peace!

I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.

Oherian 

Noble Donor


Location: West Virginia
Gender: Male


The Whitebread Explorer

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 139 on 4/4/2006 6:29 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Most of my connections with explorers in other areas have come through the LDB, so I support it. I usually talk with someone in comments first, then PMs after I get somewhat of a feel for him or her. The commenting system is one of my favorite parts of the site, actually. Any of my sites are open to comments from people who don't take themselves too seriously.

I'm sorry that Av feels he needs to go, and I hope that this process will result in a good administration. I fear that the people who most want the position or positions will be those with an axe to grind, and that those who are perhaps best qualified will not want to be part of it. I know I wouldn't want the headache myself, so I can't blame them.

"If the door's open, you might as well stick your head in."
-- Lil-trouble
UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
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