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UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
2Xplorations 


Location: Serra Pelada
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 100 on 4/4/2006 12:13 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by EvilNick
I say we assassinate whoever gets elected


all right ! coup de tat ! can I be the military strong man?


seriously Av please heed the advice of your mods, step back and reconsider or at least retain the pin to put back in the grenade if the electees or lackeys or whatever we end up with freeze up and cant handle it I like this site too much to see it ruined

"Its on my list"
Avatar-X 

Alpha Husky


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 101 on 4/4/2006 12:37 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Thanks for all your support guys, but I don't think simply taking a vacation is going to help. I've tried that before, it doesn't work.

It's simply that I no longer desire to be at the head of UER. You guys don't know what it is like -- I've tried my very best to create a website that all explorers could enjoy equally, and I've been accused of trying to "take over UE", along with a hundred other things.

It's not nice, you know, when you surf around the internet and find other explorers' websites and they are full of hate. "I hate Avatar-X", they say. And they justify this hate through any combination of falsehoods, misconceptions, and half-truths.

I don't feel safe going to NYC to explore. Why? Because the people that run the UE scene in that town have disagreed with some of the decisions I've had to make for UER in the past and have taken out a vendetta against me. "the next step in the war on UER", they post in their board, while they predict the demise of this site.

I don't feel safe going to Massachusetts. Why? Because that's the domain of Mike Dijital, a person who both loves me and hates me at the same time, and changes his convictions at a moments notice. Right now, I'm on the "hate me" side again. This means I've been banned from their website and am not welcome.

I don't feel safe going to Vancouver to explore. Why? Because one man runs the UE Scene on that town, and he has made himself very prominent. Many times he has made it clear to me that the (few) other explorers in Vancouver are not worth my time. This man now hates me because of a disagreement we had, despite the fact that we've known each other since before UER started.

Need I go on?

I am sick of being villianized for the decisions I've made with UER's best interests in mind. It is killing me. I am not a villian.

I am not looking to install a "figurehead" and control UER from behind the scenes by pulling strings. If you think of UER as a house, I'm the owner of the house but I no longer want to live there. I want to rent it out to someone else. I won't mind if they re-arrange the furniture and repaint, but I will mind if they decide to remove the second floor of the house. Get it?

-av

huskies - such fluff.
Explorer H 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 102 on 4/4/2006 12:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Misfit\'s idea is my choice. AV, take some time and get away from it all. We can handle it just fine, and I am sure you realize this. Your time and dedication have spoken loudly to me and many others who call UER home. If it means more time devoted by us mods - so be it. I am not willing to let UER fall apart, and I know my mod brothers and sisters all feel the same.

Go on, get out of here for a spell Av. We\'ll hold down the fort. (/me ruffles Av\'s hair, hands him a lunch bag and pushes him out the door)
[last edit 4/4/2006 1:28 PM by Explorer H - edited 1 times]

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 103 on 4/4/2006 1:08 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
People have way too much free time on their hands to get pissy about internet chat forums.

"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
nostra-YOUPPI! 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 104 on 4/4/2006 1:12 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Explorer_H
Misfit\'s idea is my choice. AV, take some time and get away from it all. We can handle it just fine, and I am sure you realize this. Your time and dedication have spoken loudly to me and many others who call UER home. If it means more time devoted by us mods - so be it. I am not willing to let UER fall apart, and I know my mod brothers and sisters all feel the same.

Go on, get out of here for a spell Av. We\'ll hold down the fort. (/me ruffles Av\'s hair, hands him a lunch bag and pushes him out the door)


i second that, we will take care of the place, try not to set fire to anything, well if i do ill have an extinguisher handy


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 105 on 4/4/2006 1:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Av... We all have our enemies. I myself have a few vendettas against me. And it sucks, and I know you may feel like giving up because of that. That is kinda what happened with myself and COVERT.

However, who cares what people in NY think? or what people anywhere think. Its your site. Their just jealous of it.

fuck them.

dont bother yourself with worrying what other people think of you. that is what ruins many great men.

let the mods do all of the work from now on. let them be responsiable for the decisions made. what good will another teir of political structure really do?

Just take care of the administrative stuff... donations, site maintnance, and development, and let the mods handle the guidelines. if someone comes to you with a problem, forward them to a mod.

general elections wont change anyones view of you. infact they will label you as a quitter. There is really no way to win back the people who hate you... and there will always be people that hate you, as there will always be people that hate myself. Do I care about the people who hate me? not really? You should do the same.

Unfortunately this is what happens when you create a huge community on the internet, there are always people who disagree, its human nature. you have to expect that and deal with it.

in the end av, i don't think any worse of you because you are disliked by the explorers in new york, or vancouver, or boston. you don't have to impress everyone, and make everyone like you... only worry about the people close to you. the people close to you are the people who count the most.


Roadwolf,

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Axle 


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 106 on 4/4/2006 2:33 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
it's going to happen. I think Av's made that clear.

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Roadwolf 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 107 on 4/4/2006 2:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
if its going to happen. i would say that this site is doomed. and av will gain nothing from this.

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Avatar-X 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 108 on 4/4/2006 2:57 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Roadwolf
if its going to happen. i would say that this site is doomed. and av will gain nothing from this.


I am rather disappointed that you hold such a low opinion of what I am doing.

I don't think any of you can understand what it is like to be in my shoes.

-av

huskies - such fluff.
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 109 on 4/4/2006 2:59 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I agree with Simian saying this is becoming a playground for children, that because we haven't had a good trust system. its too welcoming of a site. the S(ue) forums are small but work extremely well since anyone who is on them is trusted because we've met and explored with them and that bond, most of the time, cannot be broken.

Lately the new set of mods have been making this site very fluffy. some mods have taken their new "power" and have abused it. not all of them, just some. Are they worse than the past set? i dunno. Mod status gives a certain percentage of the population inflated egos.

That will happen with any new figurehead. period. Chainsaw? he's been deleting threads without explanation. Misfitstyle? been deleting my posts like crazy, sometimes warranted but mostly not. Do you really want these people to be running the site? I'm not attacking them personally, I actually went to chainsaw's site when I was discovering online exploration and loved his pics of the missile bases. yet their behavior while in a power position has been ridiculous.

Thin out this site and maybe people will feel like a community without every little wanna-be armchair explorer coming in and stinking up the place. Maybe a more rigid system not allowing "just anybody" to access all forums will be the answer, while loosening up the censorship and ethics debates. sure, deggi5 loyalists will still hate the site. So the fuck what? this solution will not fix anything
[last edit 4/4/2006 2:59 PM by DjMalign - edited 1 times]

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Raticus 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 110 on 4/4/2006 3:09 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Roadwolf
if its going to happen. i would say that this site is doomed. and av will gain nothing from this.


I agree. Av, since I've become one of the mods, I have just mostly be laying low, doing some work in Tutorials, etc. I have plenty more time that I can spend on the site. Fact is, and I agree with Roadwolf, if you give this site to anyone, most likely it will not survive. Even though folks my bitch and complain, we all still love this site. And like Roadwolf said, those who have left and say they hate you are probably just doing so from jealousy. You've put together a good thing here. Not perfect, but in my opinion the best there is. Myself and several other mods have suggested taking a break. Theres no reason that you can't do that. No reason at all. And even though I don't really know you and we've never actually even talked in person, I'm gonna be about as blunt as I know how to be... If you change the way this site operates, at least right now, the site will not make it. It will collapse. What that will accomplish then is giving COMPLETE SATISFACTION to those who say they hate you. The people who are causing you grief and pain will be the ONLY ones happy. I don't think the elections are a good idea, I don't think shutting it down is a good idea, I don't think turning it over to anyone is a good idea. At least not right now. In my opinion, THE ONLY thing that will work right now, is take a break, leave it to the people you trust as mods, nothing will fall apart, then after a couple weeks break then figure out how to relieve yourself of some of the pressure. If it's people resenting you and this site that bothers you, I don't think that'll change regardless of what you do. It's just part of it. I wouldn't want to loose long time friends either. But I would hope that real friendships would be strong enough to survive disputes over a website. It just want work to give this over to anyone, right now. Just consider taking a break. What will it hurt? Give me 1 GOOD reason why taking 2 or 3 weeks off will cause you harm and I'll shutup about it.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.
Ricotta 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 111 on 4/4/2006 3:15 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I really think that everyone is overreacting a bit. From what I can tell, Av is pretty much going to be taking a position like the British monarchy has now. IE: Ultimate veto power and a bit of a figurehead role, but most of the actual decision making is done by the prime minister and parliament.

I don't think that at least trying this plan will do much harm, since Av can always disband the UER parliament and recover his abdictated power if need be.

Raticus 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 112 on 4/4/2006 3:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X


I am rather disappointed that you hold such a low opinion of what I am doing.

I don't think any of you can understand what it is like to be in my shoes.

-av


I don't think Roadwolf was indicating that he has a low opinion of what you've done. Quite the opposite. I think he and most of have the opinion that what you have done is of such importance that the place probably won't survive without you. Some might call it sucking up, so be it. That's not my intent. But truth is Av makes this site work. No Av, probably no site after a short time. At least not one that's worth visiting like it is now.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools speak because they have to say something.
micro 


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 113 on 4/4/2006 3:28 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
It's a shame you couldn't have made this type of decision back when the last batch of mods were asking to have some say in how the site functions.

Avatar-X 

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 114 on 4/4/2006 3:31 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by micro
It's a shame you couldn't have made this type of decision back when the last batch of mods were asking to have some say in how the site functions.


I wouldn't have wanted to hand the site over to them either. The former mods are not representative of this community because they were not elected either.

-av

huskies - such fluff.
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 115 on 4/4/2006 3:35 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Here's my say on this...

First of all, I reg'd for this site a while ago, just simply to scan the LDB. Not because I want to go break stuff, or because I want to go tag things, but because I was interested in what was going on inside buildings I had seen or had connections to. I'm not an avid urban explorer like many of you here...I have checked out a few locations here and there, but have not gone to any meets, etc (yet...I'm planning on that this summer). I applied for Full Membership, to see if I could maybe just sneak a peek inside the LDB again, and see what was new. I was denied - and rightly so. Since then, I've been slowly starting to contribute more, and enjoy what parts of this site I could.

In the last 2 months that I've come back, I've noticed that this community has had it's fair share of drama...but what community hasn't?? Av, I can totally see where you're coming from on this though...it's not easy being the one that has to accept responsibility for decisions, and the fallout coming from them. I can also imagine that it's not easy having people tell you what to do with your 'baby' - the thing is, a new group is NOT going to solve any of this!! The only difference is that there will be...

a) new people at the top, getting bombarded with complaints/whining
b) maybe there'll be new people at the bottom, dishing out all that pain




It seems as though the wheels have been put in motion, and the only constructive criticism I have is this: offer a status quo option to those that are able to vote. As many may know, in the business world, when you look to evaluate your company's future direction, status quo should always be an option, unless your company is totally tanked. I would say that UER is FAR from being 'tanked'. I hope that you consider this option Chainsaw....I may go post it on the private board, just to foster discussion regarding it. I can't see it being a huge problem...those that want to vote in a new group can do so (and vote for who they want), and those that want Av to maintain control can do so as well.

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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 116 on 4/4/2006 3:36 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X
I don't feel safe going to Massachusetts. Why? Because that's the domain of Mike Dijital, a person who both loves me and hates me at the same time, and changes his convictions at a moments notice. Right now, I'm on the "hate me" side again. This means I've been banned from their website and am not welcome.

I don't feel safe going to Vancouver to explore. Why? Because one man runs the UE Scene on that town, and he has made himself very prominent. Many times he has made it clear to me that the (few) other explorers in Vancouver are not worth my time. This man now hates me because of a disagreement we had, despite the fact that we've known each other since before UER started.


Oh give me a break. Do you actually think "That Vancouver guy" would somehow compromise your safety if you visited Vancouver? The most ethical guy on here, who I've seen put himself in potential danger to help people he didn't even know, and you're scared of a little online argument?

And if we're talking about changing convictions, we might as well talk about the several previous attempts/threats to "Give up leadership of UER", and the fact that nothing actually happens but a lot of sympathy and pleas to change your mind. Barely a month ago you were saying you'd "tried that route and learned your lesson", and that you'd never bend to the will of a committee or vote.

Turn off the internet and go play outside.
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 117 on 4/4/2006 3:42 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X
I don't feel safe going to Vancouver to explore. Why? Because one man runs the UE Scene on that town, and he has made himself very prominent. Many times he has made it clear to me that the (few) other explorers in Vancouver are not worth my time. This man now hates me because of a disagreement we had, despite the fact that we've known each other since before UER started.

Need I go on?

I am sick of being villianized for the decisions I've made with UER's best interests in mind. It is killing me. I am not a villian.
-av


Oh for christ sakes... Whoever could the prominent guy in Vancouver be ?

You say I hate you, which is false. The truth of the matter being I hated being treated like crap while taking a lot of the bullets that would fly over stuff here. Whatever you've gotten back from me, you would do best to understand is just fair return for the times you'd cut me to the score of what I hold sacred, accusing me of lying. My word is not something I break, yet you'd accuse me of it and then act like it didn't matter at all. Have you never heard of treating people as you would like to be treated ?


The idea to give up control here had been raised more than once. You asked if any of the mods would want to take over, what a year or two ago ? Nobody wanted to. But when a bunch of us said the site would be best served by having a group of people acting to make decisions together as a council/board, we were villianized and treated like something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

So now the idea of a council/board makes sense ? Why didn't it when we proposed it before ? If you'd been open to the idea then, there would never have been the blowup there was...

I think it's a good idea. You new mods who don't think it's a good idea, don't understand what it's like to have the target on your back. In the past I deliberately wore it to take some shots that would have hit Av, so I understand all to well what it's like and it makes you not want to be here (just like Av feels). Which explains why I never volunteered when Av asked said he wanted to put someone else as the head of this beast. I don't think one person should have that much crap targetted at them. A council/board is a lot less stress for any one person. It's also a system much more likely to produce rational decisions.


It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.
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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 118 on 4/4/2006 3:51 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Screw it AV. Everybody is bitching, whining and finger pointing. No one is ever going to let you rest. Just shut the son-of-a-bitch down and walk away. If you need the piece of mind and a lower stress level, thats understandable. What is going to come out of this, however, will be worse than anything that has gone before. You will never satisfy the majority, and the new council or whatever they will be called will just go through the same shit.

I'd miss this site vey much, but it isn't possible to really win here. Go explore your power plants with a smile and wearing your silly hat, and forget this ever happened.

I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.

micro 


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Re: UER General Elections
<Reply # 119 on 4/4/2006 3:55 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X


I wouldn't have wanted to hand the site over to them either. The former mods are not representative of this community because they were not elected either.

-av


Just because someone's more representative of this community, doesn't mean they're going to be capable of making mature decisions involving the fate of this site.

As far as I see it, the last batch of mods were reasonable people with years worth of experience with both this site and urban exploration, which really, should be good enough. If anything, they were unrepresentative of this community in the good sense in that they were people who actually explored, could offer insight and make rational decisions based on the information at hand.

Given the nature of this site's demographics, I'm a bit fearful of who they might actually elect if given the chance. It's been said already, but I think this whole thing's going to turn into more of an online-personality popularity contest more than anything. But if that's the way you want it, then may the loudest and most online person win.

UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > UER General Elections (Viewed 7017 times)
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