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 micro
    
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
 |  | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 21 on 12/21/2005 5:45 PM >
|  | | |
In regards to Australian explorers not looking good at the moment, as Siolo said, the Tunnel Rats are nothing at all to do with the Cave Clan... if anything they are (and definitely were) anti-Cave Clan. |
I was thinking more in terms of the general public's impressions. The average reader isn't going to be given the opportunity to learn about the political nuances of different groups out there let alone care about them in the first place.
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Charlie_Dunver
 
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 22 on 12/21/2005 6:26 PM >
| | | | You've raised what is probably the most important point here, Micro.
What does this do for the image of Explorer's?
Easy to picture us going back to the fringes along with the KKK, child molesters, etc, all of whom are hanging out behind those abandoned doors just waiting to cart off some "normal" kids.
And it makes it feel easier for cops and security wanna be's to give us even more of a hard time.
No news is good news i suppose.....
CD
http://neath.wordpress.com |
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 23 on 12/22/2005 12:30 AM >
| | | | Yeah, the general image it will give off to some people will not be a good one.
I think the guys in Sydney may even break their media ban to make a statement if things get worse.
That I can think of off the top of my head there has been the following negative media down here.
1 - Cave Clan threatens officials. It was in the mainstream news. A guy that wanted to use the places we explore as squats for homeless people (until he found housing for them) sent a letter to the waterboard after it had been removing couches and chairs that we had been adding to our 'HQ'.
The letter said:
"To Melbourne Water,
If you continue to remove the furniture from the chamber in Prahran we will not be held responsible for our actions"
This was follower by a Cave Clan emblem.
The worst thing was that it was written on the back of a page from The Anarchist's Cookbook showing how to blow up tunnels.
2 - When a child choked in a broken grille, the media tried to blame Cave Clan.
3 - When Brian McHugh died on Dec 22 (5 years a go to the day) in a drain we received some bad publicity.
4 - Plus the regular "exploring activities threaten lives" articles that run every two or three years.
There's probably more but they are the ones that come to mind.
In basically every bad publicity case we have, they are worse because we remain silent.
The Brian McHugh saga didn't end until we spoke to the media.
If I was mentioning these things now then most people wouldn't even know about it. I think the link to UE/Tunnel Rats/white supremists etc will die off.
I hope so anyway.
Cheers,
Doug
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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Panic!
  
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Australia
Big drain driving
| | | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 24 on 1/20/2006 9:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by siologen
I dont know for sure if Val of The Tunnel Rats was indeed involved in organised white power groups. Either way he was very stupid doing what he did, and it has been made worse by the fact the media have now started using him as an example and scapegoat.
The Tunnel Rats group is not affiliated with any other exploring groups in Australia. This includes the Cave Clan, whom despite having the word 'clan' in its name, have never in its 20 years of operation been associated with racism, organised racism or indeed white power.
S///
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I'm pretty sure after the Timothy McVeigh crap in oklahoma there was some dumb ass westie in Melbourne who got some media attention with the aim of bringing the KKK to Australia. I was quite pleased by the Cave Clan stickers that started popping up around the place that read "The Cave Clan says fuck the KKK".
I've never seen the Cave Clan into white power (not that I represent them or anything). Some one must have misread something somewhere were it said they were into white powDer ;)
Live your life like it really makes a difference.
What have you done today to make you feel proud?
John Lennon was a wise man. All the world living together as one. |
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Yehoshua
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 25 on 1/20/2006 10:08 PM >
| | | | I can't imagine what "Lebs" are in terms of Australian racism, unless you have an awful lot of Lebanese...someone enlighten me?
Our Citizen.
Our Justice.
Bring Omar Khadr back to Canada. |
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 26 on 1/21/2006 1:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by Yehoshua
I can't imagine what "Lebs" are in terms of Australian racism, unless you have an awful lot of Lebanese...someone enlighten me?
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Australia is a multicultural country - a very successful one compared to most. Although the riot got a bit of publicity, it was mainly a media blow up. Every time the media showed something people would react to it.
Most of it died off within days.
I think there has been two riots in Sydney over the last two years. Not much other than that really. Lots of smaller attacks, but I think that happens everywhere.
Lots of Australians are racist towards Aboriginals to some level.
Also with new immigrants such as the Greeks and Italians in the 60s and 70s, the Lebanese in the 90s and on... I'm sure there is more.
In my experience when I was a teenager the stuff that went on between the "Aussies" and the "Wogs" was pretty even... you gave as good as you get.
It was more an Aussie thing to stir other people, even your friends.
Now everyone in very PC and a teacher has no power to do anything with a student and everyone seems to be just getting more sensitive towards the most trivial things.
I think the race riots were a build up of frustrations from the people involved not being able to say, "Don't be an idiot buddy" for so long.
Just my opinion of course and race riots don't really happen, like most of the country, down this part of the country.
There are quite a lot of 'Lebs' in Australia and I think they are more vocal than most - there are also a lot of somalis, but you don't hear much from them).
Australian tends to cut every word short, or make short words longer.
Cheers,
Doug
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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eidolon
Location: Köln, Nordrhein-Westfalen
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 27 on 1/21/2006 7:27 AM >
| | | | Posted by true_infinity
amen.
we've already tried making laws against discrimination in the US, but i think the time for that horseshit is over.
some things you can change by the ballot, some you things you must change with a bullet.
just my 2 cents.
~b
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Just as long as the same treatment is applied to supremacists of any race. Not to defend white supremecists, but the same attitudes exist in other ethnic groups, and it seems aren't given nearly the same attention.
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 28 on 1/21/2006 12:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by eidolon
Just as long as the same treatment is applied to supremacists of any race. Not to defend white supremecists, but the same attitudes exist in other ethnic groups, and it seems aren't given nearly the same attention.
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Thanks to good old political correctness.  
And yes, very well put eidolon!
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Howie_Sydney
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 29 on 1/21/2006 11:36 PM >
| | | | People wonder why I left Sydney. PC'ism, Highway Patrol, Water Restrictions & bowing to Minority groups.
It was funny watching Morris Iemma (NSW Premier & Member for Lekemba, also known as Leb-kemba) avoid the tough questions so he didnt lose any votes. Now parliament has taken advantage of these riots to bring in some quick fix rules which did nut out some people carrying some real nasty stuff in their cars. Now that rules applies to anyone, anywhere, anytime, so there goes your privacy as Constable Plod can now search your entire car and possession without cause. They should only localise that law in times of need.
The Cronulla Riots in my opinion was a small % of people from a minority group who, that day, decided to disrespect all Australians and disrespect the very country they are lucky enough to call home.
Then it came down to retaliation from the White Australians and caused some Skinheads to try and take advantage of the tender situation. It will happen again. You just had to go listen to talk-back radio there and over here in NZ to see the view point which was pretty much all anti-lebanese.
Howie.
www.bunkerboyz.org |
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Azrael
Location: South West UK
Gender: Male
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 30 on 1/23/2006 12:02 PM >
| | | | Everywhere has their problems, i mean just look at the Paris riots, there is terrorism in basically every country and the causes are 'poverty and inequality' we are told, which is daft, they claim that the Muslim ghettoes are all in poor areas, but the Un has proved a link between prosperity and letting women work, countries that hold back women will never break free of their third world status, it was on their millenium development goals. It just seems that we get the stick for problems in their communities which are an intrinsic part of their religion.
Sorry to go off topic, just my two cents.
Urban Explorers always take the red pill... |
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Yehoshua
Location: Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 31 on 1/23/2006 12:34 PM >
| | | | Yes, because look at Africa, the whole continent, women just aren't allowed to work! Wait...wasn't Iran the first country to have a female leader in modern times?
Religion has nothing to do with it, and the only people who say that it does are the ones trying to recruit a young generation to die.
Our Citizen.
Our Justice.
Bring Omar Khadr back to Canada. |
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Azrael
Location: South West UK
Gender: Male
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 32 on 1/23/2006 1:16 PM >
| | | | But honestly, it was proper research by the UN, they discovered that all of their Millenium development goals depended on the Universal rights of woman etc and the UN, can't be racist, it doesn't make value judgements about countries. Don't shoot the messenger.
Maybe this post should die here...i smell a flamewar as everyone has different opinions on politics, etc. By the way, this isn't in response to your post, by saying about a flamewar does not mean i disagree with what you are saying, i am just saying this in order to prevent one as they make for such dull reading.
Urban Explorers always take the red pill... |
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frugalfinnagan
Gender: Male
| | Re: Oh, so that's what it was for..
<Reply # 33 on 1/23/2006 8:48 PM >
| | | | Posted by Panic!
I'm pretty sure after the Timothy McVeigh crap in oklahoma there was some dumb ass westie in Melbourne who got some media attention with the aim of bringing the KKK to Australia. I was quite pleased by the Cave Clan stickers that started popping up around the place that read "The Cave Clan says fuck the KKK".
I've never seen the Cave Clan into white power (not that I represent them or anything). Some one must have misread something somewhere were it said they were into white powDer ;)
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The timothy McVeigh thing was the result of Waco, and Ruby ridge. Your post seems to say that Timothy McVeigh was racist in some regard. That was not the case. In the army he respected people if they were competent, regardless of color or country. Sam as in prison. Mr. McVeigh did what he did because he understood the power structure was not interested in his views. It had it's own agenda. I don't mean to start a flamewar, but I felt this was a pretty big discrepancy.
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