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 nd31
  
 |  | Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
< on 11/24/2005 4:24 AM >
|  | | | Okay, I'm sure other lurkers and regular posters of the UE photography forum have realized the recurring bouts of critical comments versus either photos that are too "artsy" or that are not "artsy" enough.
Could this not be solved simply with the division of the forum into two subsections: Documentary/Exploration-Snapshot and Documentary/Exploration-Art.
By doing this, not all of the problems would be solved. Of course there might be situations where terribly composed snapshot photos are attempted to be passed as "art-documentary" instead of simply as exploration snapshots. However, I think that there would hopefully be fewer divergent threads (i.e. photos become debate.) Also, most likely those who prefer pure exploration-documentary style snapshots will keep to that forum and those who are proponents of art will stay in the other.
Any input?
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micro
   
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 1 on 11/24/2005 4:44 AM >
| | | | Debate is good. Keep it as is.
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seicer
 
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 2 on 11/24/2005 4:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by micro
Debate is good. Keep it as is.
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But its not often debate. It goes to slander exceptionally quickly, with the "artsy gurus" butting heads with the "snapshotters". What needs to be done, IMO, is for the mods to remove posts that do nothing but flame and encourage negativity.
Abandoned |
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Avatar-X
  
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 3 on 11/24/2005 5:10 AM >
| | | | I don't think this will work. Everyone draws the line between snapshot and art differently.
For once I agree with seicer, flaming isn't allowed and should not happen. Constructive criticism only.
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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Glass
Location: Chicago
as one does
| | | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 4 on 11/24/2005 6:56 AM >
| | | | I don't think it will work because sometimes when you're looking at a few photos a context shot really helps bring the set together. i.e. snapshot of the exterior of asylum and then a four or five artsy shots from the inside.
Also having all the photos in one place is very enabling for artists to get their work out there. Twice as many people are exposed to the work when both kinds of viewers in one place... even if it is a little leading on 
Something I would like to see, though, is a small section in the form of a gallery where artists all post a photo or two of their best work for being rated by the community. Just a thumbnail page, a large photo page with a scale on it and a comment box. A word at the top could encourage artists to only post their best or favorite pieces.
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Beryl
Not as fluffy as Av!
Location: Germany
Gender: Male
Uncle Beryl
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 5 on 11/24/2005 2:13 PM >
| | | | I agree with Av...
No one has the right to judge others' idea of "art" or complain about it not being "special" enough. If someone likes exploring and documenting it with snapshots, their photos are worth as much as someone who takes 15 minutes to set up each shot three times at different exposures. It's an exploration site, photography is an optional add-on.
One my be, in my opinion, prettier, but that doesn't change anything. Opinions only matter inside your head.
Licentious acrimonious puer æternus. Libertine. |
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nd31
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 6 on 11/24/2005 10:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by Avatar-X
I don't think this will work. Everyone draws the line between snapshot and art differently.
-av
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I knew this would be brought up, but the main idea is that people who actually post the shots have control over their intended audience. If someone posts less than wonderful shots in the artsy forum, they can expect to get criticism and people won't complain about "elitists."
The idea wasn't moderator sorting of posts, but instead the option for the poster themselves.
[last edit 11/24/2005 10:07 PM by nd31 - edited 1 times]
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| |  | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 7 on 11/24/2005 11:12 PM >
| | | | The problem is; if someone bagged something really cool; let's say hypothetically Area 51, then i'm sure no one would complain about the artistic integrity of dead aliens. (hypothetically of course)
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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NickSan
RIP
Location: Portland Or.
Gender: Male
UER newbie
| | | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 8 on 11/24/2005 11:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by micro
Debate is good. Keep it as is.
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I don’t believe this site was ever intended to be an “Art Forum”
If I want to see art I go somewhere else
I think-
It’s is about Exploring
It’s about Sharing the great times we have
It’s about being with other lunatics like us
If someone’s photos come out incredible that’s really great and maybe we could all learn something more about photography.
I think we all would like our photos to come out as best as they can, after all we my never see the place again
Constructive criticism is great and should be encouraging, not be abusive
Good photos help bring us to the place that some else has been to, that’s why I try to take the best shots that I can
But I have seen many photos that are not of the best quality but still bring me to that place and have seen wonderful places
What I think is a “Documentary” photo someone else might feel its an ‘Artsy” photo
We all see the places differently
If you don’t like the photos go to the next page, get over it
Maybe photos of Orbs, Bunnies or shots staged with props belong somewhere else
As far as flaming goes, people will get into a quarrel, that’s life. Trying to edit all of it out is a waste of time
How do you know who fighting and who is joking
If it gets out of hand just lock it up
Some people definitely take advantage of saying things on line that they would never say in person, that’s just pathetic
But to be honest some of the funniest things I have read have been here
So if some Bozo puts up pictures of ”Cute Puppies” again I will be the first to jump on their shit!
[last edit 11/25/2005 12:02 AM by NickSan - edited 1 times]
http://www.darkviews.com/
http://www.myspace.com/nicksan62
“Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.� |
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No Regrets
Location: San Francisco, CA / Boston, MA / New Haven, CT
Gender: Female
| | | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 9 on 11/25/2005 2:42 AM >
| | | | Eh, I agree with ndillon on having separate forums.
I'm not going to name names, but some of the "snapshotters" really do seem to get offended by people criticising their pictures, and I think the "artists" get tired of seeing pictures being taken with very little effort on the same forum as their hard work. There seems to be two very different worlds here, and they clash sometimes. After the recent thread started by Mike Dijital, I realized that there is a lot of drama amongst us and that something should be done.
Having two separate forums would allow people to easily choose what kind of feedback they would like. Of course, any criticism should be given with good intentions either way.
However, I think "Documentary" can be left out of the titles, because it doesn't give exploration art that isn't good documentation a place. I think art made about abandoned buildings and urban exploration that doesn't necessarily just document it well can still be relevent to this board.
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nd31
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 10 on 11/25/2005 4:58 AM >
| | | | Well, I added exploration/documentary as a means of differentiating between those who change their photos and evoke the emotion of their exploration as oppose to people who, with artistic merit in mind, have a pure documentation approach.
Perhaps it's unneccessary; fair enough.
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Redknight
Location: Missouri
Gender: Male
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 11 on 11/25/2005 5:42 AM >
| | | | As both an artist, and a snapshotter, I think a separation could work out well. When I post some of my art photography, I would like it if I could direct it into a separate forum where people can view and critique it from an artistic standpoint. Then after getting snapshots of a site I could put it in a forum where people go to view new sites.
The concept of separate forums is easy for me to imagine, its just art photography vs photojournalism to me. I want to photographically document every site I go to, and the intent is not to make art, but to document and preserve the history of that place. Most of the documentary types of shots are very far from artistic, not to say that a photo cant be both artistic and documentary, but most of the time that isnt really the case. Art photography, for me atleast, takes alot more time and thought than a xenon lit snapshot of an object in focus and centered in the photo .
Im not at all saying that a photo can't be both, but most of the time when I take a photo, and when I want to review photos, there is a distinction in my mind between art and journalistic photos. I dont see how having a separate forum for art would cause any harm, anyone could post any photos they wanted in either forum, and would know if people will be critiquing their photos or not.
To me, the current layout of the site implies that, you would post your photographic art in the photography forum, and then photos(snapshots) documenting sites would all be in the location db. This is clearly not the way it is, so dividing, or making another photography forum would make alot of sence to me. Until then, people shouldnt get offended and shouldnt be surprised if anyone critiques any photos in the forum.
Forgive the long post lol. Its annoying that to see the artwork of members from the site, that I have to go through every post where 90% of them are documentary type photos. When I want to look at documentary photos that people havent posted in the database for whatever reason(lack of info, time, quality) I could go into the documentary forum.
Bottom line, not everybody cares about art, and not everybody cares about photojournalism. Separate forums would simply be a convenience for both sides to me.
[last edit 11/25/2005 5:49 AM by Redknight - edited 1 times]
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Beryl
Not as fluffy as Av!
Location: Germany
Gender: Male
Uncle Beryl
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 12 on 11/25/2005 12:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by Redknight
Bottom line, not everybody cares about art, and not everybody cares about photojournalism. |
Yes, but this is a UE forum, not a photography board...
Licentious acrimonious puer æternus. Libertine. |
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nd31
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 13 on 11/25/2005 9:09 PM >
| | | | Posted by Beryl
Yes, but this is a UE forum, not a photography board...
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Yes, but a lot of people's sole motivation to explore is in aesthetic documentation. Should we remove all discussion from "The Great Plains" and "The Four Corners" areas of United States, for example, because they are rural and not urban in nature!? UE, as we've all established many times, is not a singularity; some like live sites, and some like drains; some like abandoned hospitals, and others, abandoned networks for trains. (Sorry, I felt like rhyming.) So why not give at least the option?
Also, nice post, Redknight.
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Beryl
Not as fluffy as Av!
Location: Germany
Gender: Male
Uncle Beryl
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 14 on 11/25/2005 9:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by ndillon31
Yes, but a lot of people's sole motivation to explore is in aesthetic documentation ... So why not give at least the option? |
Because this is a general Exploration site... Should there be site-sponsered Graphitti Photography section, or a Ghost Photography section just because some people have that for a reason?
What's wrong with a private board?
Licentious acrimonious puer æternus. Libertine. |
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nd31
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 15 on 11/25/2005 9:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by Beryl
Because this is a general Exploration site... Should there be site-sponsered Graphitti Photography section, or a Ghost Photography section just because some people have that for a reason?
What's wrong with a private board?
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Okay, I just thought of a solution. Instead of an entire new forum (pardon the chat stuff):
<ndillon31> Could there not be some method of tagging the thread with an image that either denoted what the poster considered art (say, a painter's palet) or documentation (say, a checkboard)?
<ndillon31> Thus the power would be in control of the poster in terms of what type of feedback they'd desire. I.e. awesome exploration versus awesome photos.
<ndillon31> Also the viewer of the post could choose which they'd read themselves without the useless debate that keeps arising.
<ndillon31> Basically, I mean a little image that could go beside the part where the little lock for the locked thread is.
<ndillon31> And all the poster would be required to do would be check off a box similar to the "Attach a poll to this new thread" feature.
I entirely understand your reason for not wanting a forum divided by every other thing, but at least such a simplistic division could solve this.
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el nerdo
 
Chief UER Lackey
Gender: Male
What are you, from the Department of Know'm Sayin's? You takin' a Know'm census?
| | | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 16 on 11/25/2005 9:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by Beryl
What's wrong with a private board?
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Nothing.
If the oh-so-professional artisteswant a board to stroke each other's egos, the ability to create one is already there.
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Beryl
Not as fluffy as Av!
Location: Germany
Gender: Male
Uncle Beryl
| | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 17 on 11/25/2005 9:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by ndillon31
I entirely understand your reason for not wanting a forum divided by every other thing, but at least such a simplistic division could solve this.
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Before suggesting that, how about attaching a poll to this thread to see if you and I aren't the only ones with opinions on this?
I agree with Nerdo (wtf am I saying?) - All photos are equal if the author likes them, and those that want to whine about someone else's work without being asked are just flaming.
[last edit 11/25/2005 9:25 PM by Beryl - edited 1 times]
Licentious acrimonious puer æternus. Libertine. |
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Avatar-X
Alpha Husky
Location: West Coast
Gender: Male
yay!
| | | Re: Suggestion: Split of UE Photography into-> Documentary/Exploration-Art and Documentary/Exploration Snapshot
<Reply # 19 on 11/25/2005 9:55 PM >
| | | | A new Photo Critiques board has been added.
http://www.uer.ca/...sp?fid=1&catid=106
-av
huskies - such fluff. |
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