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611 online
Server Time:
2024-05-12 13:08:36
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 Crossfire
    
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
 |  |  |  |  | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 40 on 11/23/2005 8:20 PM >
|  | | | Posted by pat420
due to the nature of free parties we can't control the people who just show up.
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That's the concern. Glad to see you've admitted it yourself. I hope you now understand the problem that some around here have with free parties being held in abandoned and deserted locations. There's too much of a chance of these locations being ruined by asshats who might not be kept out of these parties.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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pat420
 
Location: Scarlem
Gender: Male
I've Got a Lovely Bunch Of Coconuts. . . .
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 41 on 11/23/2005 11:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by Crossfire
That's the concern. Glad to see you've admitted it yourself. I hope you now understand the problem that some around here have with free parties being held in abandoned and deserted locations. There's too much of a chance of these locations being ruined by asshats who might not be kept out of these parties.
C.
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Very true. Those sorts of people (crackheads, smack junkies etc..) aren't told about it and people are very strongly discouraged from bringing those types.
http://freespace.c...iewtopic.php?t=424
"PLEASE! Inform only your most trusted friends.
You know the deal, its your vibe…don’t ruin it."
now of course they can find the place on thier own but they could do that on thier own time even if there is no party. Thats just the unfortunate reality of abandoned sites, anyone, anywhere at any time can go in and do what they please.
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Bobtheallmighty
  
Location: Somewhere over london, Ontario
Gender: Male
gotta climb.
| | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 42 on 11/23/2005 11:27 PM >
| | | | yes but normally thoughs site arent blaring music and lit up and all welcoming like
-bob
" <Samurai> you know, we aren't as far removed from animals as we'd like to think... i still have bowel movements that border on mystical... i mean almost orgasmic" |
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manitou
Location: Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo
Gender: Male
I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world!
| | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 43 on 11/23/2005 11:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by pat420
man i just finished saying(typing, lol) that there were only a thousand people at the BUSH in at Teknival. the massey fergusen party had about 150ppl max. fucking read the posts before you type back. i agree that there is a possibility for damage but isnt there also that same possibility for anyone else that goes there. its not like the ONLY people who know about the bricks are UER members. the last time i was there a bunch of street punks were smashing windows and trying to break already broken machinery.
anyways, this is just becoming a flame war so i'm going to respectfully bow out and close with this. I am respectful of the venue and so are the organizers. we take every precaution possible to discourage "problem" people from attending out events. due to the nature of free parties we can't control the people who just show up.
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I read and re-read the posts and I still came to the same conclusion.
The possibility of damage increases dramatically when hundreds of people are involved, then there is the trickle down effect which adds to the possibility of damage.
One hundred or one thousand the numbers still apply. The more people that know about a site, the more likely it is to get damaged, simple as that.
Case in point: there is a wonderful site that I knew about for over three years before it was listed on this site. During those three years it remained totally untouched by vandals. The site was then discovered by other explorers and posted here, more people knew about it, 98% of them were respectful of the location, apparently 2% weren't. Now much of the place is smashed to hell. Interesting coincidence that once word got out about the location the vandalism started.
True, for the most part explorers aren't the only people to know about a site. However most of the time it is only explorers and vandals who are interested in a site and want to gain access to it. To explorers it is imperative that vandals not find out about how to enter locations.
Edited to add:
Say you had a forum similar to this where you discussed your parties in abandoned buildings and a new member started posting saying thigs like:
"I'd like to know where these parties are so my crew and I can come and steal the DJ equipment, then have the police bust the party once we have left."
You certainly wouldn't think too kindly of that person as they pose a direct threat to your hobby. Well that is what you are doing here, too many prime locations have been lost because of things like this. I for one don't want to lose any more.
[last edit 11/24/2005 12:06 AM by manitou - edited 2 times]
www.dkphotogroup.com
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 44 on 11/24/2005 4:38 PM >
| | | | So, where's this location?
C.
Disgruntled. |
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pat420
Location: Scarlem
Gender: Male
I've Got a Lovely Bunch Of Coconuts. . . .
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 45 on 11/24/2005 6:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by Crossfire
So, where's this location?
C.
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thats the massey fergussen plant over by the gardiner near fort york
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 46 on 11/24/2005 7:34 PM >
| | | | I explored the old Massey factory in Brantford (originally Cockshutt). Most of it had been ripped down, but the original building was still there. Very neat place, and not too badly vandalized.
I guess there hadn't been any free parties in it before I was there. 
C.
Disgruntled. |
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nobody
Location: VANCOUVER B.C.
Gender: Male
5:55 is a state of mind
| | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 47 on 11/24/2005 7:57 PM >
| | | | pat420 was pretty straight forward about his intentions right off the bat. There could have been a full blown infiltration right into the db. What I am saying is it could have gone worse, am I right? N.
[last edit 11/24/2005 7:58 PM by nobody - edited 1 times]
Operating Entirely With Bad Intentions |
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 48 on 11/24/2005 11:50 PM >
| | | | Personally I think everyone flew way off the handle.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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manitou
Location: Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo
Gender: Male
I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world!
| | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 49 on 11/24/2005 11:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by Particle Man
Personally I think everyone flew way off the handle.
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That's what internet forums are for, providing people with a place to totally over-react.
[last edit 11/25/2005 12:44 AM by manitou - edited 1 times]
www.dkphotogroup.com
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 50 on 11/24/2005 11:57 PM >
| | | | Yah, maybe.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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No Dynamics
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 51 on 11/25/2005 2:05 PM >
| | | | For people who get their jollies from breaking into ABANDONED FUCKING BUILDINGS, many of you people are incredibly uptight. Kowalski is especially dogmatic (and has a shitty sense of humour/self-righteousness).
Staging events in these buildings is waaaay more interesting than merely entering them and taking pictures. And, face it, no matter how many more parties go down at the Brick Works, it's not going to be any harder or any easier to get in. The cops don't give a shit about it. I had a show there on Oct. 28, and it went till 7 am just fine. There were about 200 people there, and none of them were idiots. Not that it would be an easy task to burn down the Brick Works.
My main problems are:
1. You act as though you own these buildings. You do not. You are a trespasser. Just like anyone who is throwing a party.
2. You pretend that your purpose is noble while all others are shit, but fail to provide evidence that suggests partying has led to a halt in UE.
3. YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO DECAY! WHY DOES THE DECAY HAVE TO BE "NATURAL"? You attach purity where none exists. Partying will happen in abandoned spaces. It's part of the organic decay of the building. I just can't see how you would regard beer bottles as "sullying" to a building's decor. If anything, the scent of parties past makes it MORE interesting.
Okay, I'm done for now.
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 52 on 11/25/2005 2:35 PM >
| | | | Posted by No Dynamics
Okay, I'm done for now.
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Thank GOD.
Disgruntled. |
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Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 53 on 11/25/2005 2:48 PM >
| | | | To be perfectly honest I agree with a lot of the points that No Dynamics made, if not all of them. It probably wouldn't surprise most of you though. We're coming off as total "holier than thou"'s here.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
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Crossfire
Location: Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 54 on 11/25/2005 3:10 PM >
| | | | There is the point that we do not "own" these buildings, but I think that most of us are coming from the point of view that we want these buildings preserved. The concern is that when people start throwing parties in these places, nobody can say that drugs and/or alcohol will not be involved. It also cannot be denied that when drugs and/or alcohol become involved, problems can arise.
And I for one don't find that garbage, empty beer bottles and burnt-out remnants of furniture add to the exploration experience.
The concern is not that these partiers are trespassing - that has never even been brought up so I'm not sure why it's a "concern". It is also not the point that partying *has* led to a halt of UE, but that it could. Additionally that you cannot control all the people all the time, and there *has* been evidence of vandalism during these parties. Not all of them, mind you, but it doesn't have to happen at all of them to become a valid problem.
And finally... natural decay of a building is completely different than going in and seeing that a bunch of fucking yahoo's ripped out walls and broke every pane of glass they could find! And how the fuck should the smell of stale cigarettes and beer add to the exploration "experience".
Purity where none exists. What a bunch of psuedo-brainy bullshit.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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mortimer
Location: teronno
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 55 on 11/25/2005 3:47 PM >
| | | |
| For people who get their jollies from breaking into ABANDONED FUCKING BUILDINGS, many of you people are incredibly uptight. |
So....why are you on this forum then?
yep. |
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No Dynamics
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 56 on 11/25/2005 4:11 PM >
| | | | Because I get my jollies from it, too.
I think about it differently than what seems to be the norm here, though.
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 57 on 11/25/2005 4:37 PM >
| | | | Just to play devil's advocate here.. if you ask me, I think the whole argument that we want these places preserved is a bit of bullshit, because really.. when it comes down to it, most of us just want these places preserved for our *own* selfish UE purposes. When it comes to actually getting involved with heritage boards or groups like Evergreen who are seriously doing something to help save places from demolition, the majority of people around here (including myself) tend to be MIA. In fact, I remember reading numerous complaints from here regarding Evergreen's unique plans for the Brickworks.
I can understand this, but at the same time we shouldn't be presenting ourselves as noble preservationists of history because when push comes to shove, most of us do nothing more than just explore or take pictures. This might make for some interesting stories or a nice gallery in a website, but that sort of stuff only goes so far and in this particular debate, I find it a bit disingenuous to play the whole "we want history preserved" card.
I'm also on the fence with this one, but maybe only because it's the Brickworks and I already see it as being a bit of a write-off to begin with. Had this sort of idea been seriously discussed regarding a place that's a bit more intact, like Hearn, then I'd probably be more offended. As it stands though, the Brickworks is already very much vandalized, has a person *living* inside of it (maybe you should talk to *that* guy about some the garbage in there), and is so well known and easily accessible that it really does seem a bit beyond our control as to what goes on in there. In short, it's the new Whitby Psych.
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No Dynamics
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 58 on 11/25/2005 4:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by Crossfire
There is the point that we do not "own" these buildings, but I think that most of us are coming from the point of view that we want these buildings preserved. The concern is that when people start throwing parties in these places, nobody can say that drugs and/or alcohol will not be involved. It also cannot be denied that when drugs and/or alcohol become involved, problems can arise.
And I for one don't find that garbage, empty beer bottles and burnt-out remnants of furniture add to the exploration experience.
The concern is not that these partiers are trespassing - that has never even been brought up so I'm not sure why it's a "concern". It is also not the point that partying *has* led to a halt of UE, but that it could. Additionally that you cannot control all the people all the time, and there *has* been evidence of vandalism during these parties. Not all of them, mind you, but it doesn't have to happen at all of them to become a valid problem.
And finally... natural decay of a building is completely different than going in and seeing that a bunch of fucking yahoo's ripped out walls and broke every pane of glass they could find! And how the fuck should the smell of stale cigarettes and beer add to the exploration "experience".
Purity where none exists. What a bunch of psuedo-brainy bullshit.
C.
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Way to use lame political debate tactics: forming an embellished caricature and then proceeding to attack said embellishment. I am not quite sure what responsibly thrown music events have to do with graffiti and smashed windows and ripped out walls. None of said shit happened at the Brick Works show I put on.
Fact is, most of that damage occurs at the hands of lone individuals or small groups. Especially graff. Give me a break.
What is so perplexing to me is this: here you are recontextualizing space that has been deemed unfit for habitation/exploration. You thumb your nose at their desires, though they're the ones who own the land you seek to trespass on. You feel okay doing this because you think your recontextualization of the space is noble. This is all well and good. But, you can't take it when someone else recontextualizes the same space in a different way, a way that doesn't adhere to your established codes of behaviour (in this space that YOU'RE MISBEHAVING IN!).
Who's to say what kind of decay is desirable? I like to see the refuse of current interaction with a building. It breathes new life into it. That said, there is some responsibility involved, of course. The show I put on the Brick Works left it more or less as it was (with a extra beer bottles and tea lights). Fact is, that show provided transcendent experiences for more people in one night than a year's worth of solitary UE expeditions. Go see the boards at stillepost.ca for people's reactions to the night.
Finally, my mention of "purity" is totally applicable. Your logic seems to dictate that a crumpled up Coke can is okay just so long as it was left there 20 years ago.
I'm not trying to condone recklessness. But I think well-organized events in abandoned places are far more noble and interesting than simple picture-taking. I want to see people INTERACTING with the buildings, not merely observing them passively, from behind a camera.
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manitou
Location: Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo
Gender: Male
I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world!
| | Re: The Don Valley Brickworks.
<Reply # 59 on 11/25/2005 4:55 PM >
| | | | Posted by No Dynamics
For people who get their jollies from breaking into ABANDONED FUCKING BUILDINGS, many of you people are incredibly uptight. Kowalski is especially dogmatic (and has a shitty sense of humour/self-righteousness).
Staging events in these buildings is waaaay more interesting than merely entering them and taking pictures. And, face it, no matter how many more parties go down at the Brick Works, it's not going to be any harder or any easier to get in. The cops don't give a shit about it. I had a show there on Oct. 28, and it went till 7 am just fine. There were about 200 people there, and none of them were idiots. Not that it would be an easy task to burn down the Brick Works.
My main problems are:
1. You act as though you own these buildings. You do not. You are a trespasser. Just like anyone who is throwing a party.
2. You pretend that your purpose is noble while all others are shit, but fail to provide evidence that suggests partying has led to a halt in UE.
3. YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO DECAY! WHY DOES THE DECAY HAVE TO BE "NATURAL"? You attach purity where none exists. Partying will happen in abandoned spaces. It's part of the organic decay of the building. I just can't see how you would regard beer bottles as "sullying" to a building's decor. If anything, the scent of parties past makes it MORE interesting.
Okay, I'm done for now.
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Judging from you post history you are just here to find out about locations for parties.
If you don't like the way people here operate you are free to leave, don't sit around for a year and make a handful of posts saying that we are self-righteous.
Partying does lead to a halt in UE. There are two excellent examples: The Canada Malting Plant and Whitby Psych.
www.dkphotogroup.com
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