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Server Time:
2024-05-11 12:13:09
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 Jonsered
     
Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
 |  |  |  | Schlage locks
< on 11/4/2005 10:59 PM >
|  | | | Got a location that I'm really hot for, an abandoned Presto factory. Been out and done a recon, and it looks good. No dogs, no power, bad fence, several paths of egress. One problem: door locks.
All the windows are intact, roof vents are secured, even the air conditioners are bolted in the frames from the inside. All the doors have Schlage locks. My lock pick gun didn't cut it. Any hot tips on Schlage locks?
Edited for spelling
[last edit 11/4/2005 11:00 PM by Jonsered - edited 1 times]
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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tnarduzzi
Location: Nevernever, LD, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 1 on 11/4/2005 11:33 PM >
| | | | Sorry Jonsered, I don't have any advice on how to pick a Schlage.
Just out of curiosity, anyone know if it is Schlage that is in use all over the TTC?
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ArmchairExplorer
Location: Vancouver
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 2 on 11/4/2005 11:52 PM >
| | | | Schlage commercial locks are some of the toughest around. Definitely comparable to Medeco.
Unless you're prepared to spend a lot of time learning how to defeat high security locks, your best bet is to forget picking and find some other way in.
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ArmchairExplorer
Location: Vancouver
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 3 on 11/4/2005 11:55 PM >
| | | | Posted by Normz
Just out of curiosity, anyone know if it is Schlage that is in use all over the TTC?
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The TTC uses Medeco locks on the public doors to their stations. I would assume they also use Medeco to protect non-public areas.
Forget about picking these.
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Inphenity
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 4 on 11/4/2005 11:55 PM >
| | | | i dont know if id go comparing it to a medeco but shlage will usually have atleast one spool pin
... well yea actually this is a flashlight in my pocket .. but im still happy to see you |
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ArmchairExplorer
Location: Vancouver
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 5 on 11/5/2005 1:25 AM >
| | | | Schlage Primus (commercial) locks are equipped with a sidebar. Security pins or not, that's Medeco territory as far as pick resistance is concerned.
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Pleiades
Location: Halifax
Gender: Male
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 6 on 11/5/2005 5:13 AM >
| | | | Wow, I didn't know Schlage was that good, still cant top Medeco tho. I tried picking a Medeco to get into some campus steam tunnels, then I did some research, and promptly gave up. You could probably count the number of Medeco locks that have ever been picked on one hand.
You could probably pick a Schlage with a lot of practice, try to get a hold of a lock of the same model, and some diagrams of its internal workings, or dismantle the thing.
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Inphenity
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 7 on 11/5/2005 5:52 AM >
| | | | wow .. i wasnt aware of the sidebar. yeah thats pretty tough
... well yea actually this is a flashlight in my pocket .. but im still happy to see you |
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blacksheep5000
Gender: Male
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 8 on 11/5/2005 7:12 AM >
| | | | yea with some practice you can pick these, the problem is getting the lock to practice on (i have a box of old keyless schlage and other locks to practice on) but if you dont have that resource its gonna cost you alot since they cost so much new. but a pick gun wont cut it here, your gonna have to have a steel set with alot of response, like the flat ones.
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 9 on 11/5/2005 12:29 PM >
| | | | Ok, to set some things straight:
Schlage locks are no where near comparable to the Medeco locks you're probably talking about, which are Biaxial locks that have pins that require rotation to a specific angle in addition to being lifted to the correct height.
Just because a lock has a side bar doesn't mean you should be afraid of it. Search out Matt Blaze's documents about Schlage primus and everest locking systems, and you will find that they aren't that big and scary.
Side-bar locks aren't "Medeco territory" - many, many brands of locks use a secondary side-bar locking system, not just Schlage and Medeco. Sargent, ASSA, Abloy etc...
Medeco Biaxial locks can be picked with some difficulty by hand with specially designed tools but it isn't that far out of the ordinary. You have to be a very seasoned lock-picker with a keen sense for the insides of the lock and excellent control over your tools. Some guy from Toool supposedly did it in 00:01:52.0 but it could have had specially loaded springs or something like that. Also, products like Medeco Keymark don't have bi-axial pins, just regular [probably security] pins in an odd para-centric keyway that is difficult to rake, but can be done.
As far as Schlage locks go, if they're bored locksets try slipping them with the old card trick. If that doesn't work, ditch your pick gun and try a bump key, which works along the same lines but usually a bit better. What you really should do instead of copping out with these "automatic" methods is try picking it pin-by-pin until you can get it open. You may have to practice a lot to learn this method, especially if the lock contains security [serrated or mushroom] pins.
If you want more detail than that go to www.lockpicking101.com, sign up for the forum and be prepared to read for a week looking at all of the answers to questions you never even thought to ask. ~Grit.
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Pleiades
Location: Halifax
Gender: Male
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 10 on 11/5/2005 8:19 PM >
| | | | Ok, maybe its not as hard as I thought to pick a medeco, but it's certainly beyond my skills and tools.
The Schlage on the other hand shouldnt be that difficult if you practice picking it pin by pin, especially if you can get your hands on a blank key. I had a look at the documents grit1 mentioned, they should get you started.
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Ishi
Gender: Male
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 11 on 11/6/2005 2:21 AM >
| | | | As for the TTC, they use about six different locks throughout the system:
Medeco are used on the T1 subway cars (Red Interiors) to secure the door behind the operators cab where you see the two cam locks securing what looks to be a panel. There is computer chips and breakers for the trains located in there.
These locks can be found on almost every door on the TTC.
Commonly securing janitorial rooms, elevator/escalator rooms, offices, and pretty much any room on the platform except for the rooms described below with Schlage.
Schlage locks are used on some of the little rooms on the Bloor-Danforth line, i.e. some of the double gray doors recessed into the walls at certain stations like Pape, Sherbourne, Broadview, just to name a few. I believe that they house some piping inside those cabinets. They are the same size as the red cabinets you see on the platforms (Those house emergency equipment for firefighting).
The third lock used by them is the North American padlock, most of these locks are used on the doors to escalator rooms along with the little lockplate you see when they're securing the escalator rooms when they do a complete refurblishment of the escalator. They are also found on their temporary hoarding for elevator and escalator installations.
Another lock you might have seen looks like an skeleton key, these are called "Pax Keys", I really don't know much about these keys, but my friend who works for the commission told me that they open up the subway window for the guard. Most of these locks are found on doors leading to washrooms, or break rooms. Another interesting tidbit is that these keys can open the first subway door closest to the guard cab. Used by the train crew/supervisors to access the car while all the doors are closed.
There is a square looking key that is used on the subway to access the cab of the subway.
The last key is a ACE key that is used for some of the locks on the buses from 1998 and beyond, they are mainly for the revenue box release, first aid access door, wheelchair control access (Rear Wheelchair Ramp)
Hope this helps.
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Tiberius
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Gender: Male
I'm not wearing pants
| | |  | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 12 on 11/6/2005 3:19 AM >
| | | | Take a sledge hammer and pound it off or take the door off the hinges if that is possible for this location.
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Pleiades
Location: Halifax
Gender: Male
| | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 13 on 11/6/2005 3:59 AM >
| | | | Posted by Tiberius
Take a sledge hammer and pound it off or take the door off the hinges if that is possible for this location.
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That would leave a bit more than footprints, methinks.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 14 on 11/7/2005 1:23 AM >
| | | | Personally I would get a normal pick set and camp out untill you get in.. yer bound to learn alot from the lock by the time you kill it *grin*
Theres other ways to do this but most will end up breakin something or obliterating the lock.. another good plan is maybe the roof because roof entries are not often locked.. either way search around
(and if you take a door off it's hinges, which i've done, doesn't destroy anything because you can just pop the door open then put the pins back in)
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Jonsered
Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
| | | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 15 on 11/7/2005 4:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by Tiberius
Take a sledge hammer and pound it off or take the door off the hinges if that is possible for this location.
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Got to go with Pleiades here. Not trying to devastate the facility, I just want to look inside. It has been sold, and I want to check it out before they start rehabbing the property. While I appreciate the suggestion, I would probably bring my cutting torch and just burn out the lock. Makes less noise than a sledgehammer! Either way, thanks for the suggestions, and it looks like I'm out of luck on this one.
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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Louie
| | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 16 on 11/8/2005 7:36 PM >
| | | | I figure if it's that well secured there has to be something inside that you don't want to deal with... i.e. alarms or maybe even a meth factory.
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Jonsered
Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
| | | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 17 on 11/8/2005 7:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by fatLouie
I figure if it's that well secured there has to be something inside that you don't want to deal with... i.e. alarms or maybe even a meth factory.
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Nah, our meth-cookers aren't that smart or dedicated. Way easier to take over one of the thousand abandoned mobile homes in the desert.
As an update, tried again last night. Pins aren't coming out of the doors without major damage, and I'm not up for that. The internal drainage pipes for the fire sprinkler water are only about 12" in diameter, and I'm not going to able to get through that. I may have found an air conditioner vent thats a possibility, but it has some interesting tamper-resistant screws. Any tips on removing these, or is it just a vise-grip project and an hour of time?
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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JavaDog
Location: Buffalo, NY
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 18 on 11/8/2005 8:18 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jonsered
I may have found an air conditioner vent thats a possibility, but it has some interesting tamper-resistant screws. Any tips on removing these, or is it just a vise-grip project and an hour of time?
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That is a tamper-resistant one-way screw. Goes in with a normal slotted screwdriver, but made to not come back out.
"...believe me therein upon mine honour, for you will thereby feel in your nockhole a most wonderful pleasure, both in regard of the softness of the said down and of the temporate heat of the goose, which is easily communicated to the bum-gut..." |
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: Schlage locks
<Reply # 19 on 11/8/2005 9:58 PM >
| | | | Yep, that's a one-way screw, popular on bathroom partitions and other tamper prone situations. They're not designed to be removable but there is a tool that exists to do it, I don't remember what it's called or how it works but do some googling. Did you check to see if the lock was installed in such a way that would allow you to slip the latch with a thin piece of metal, card or knife? ~Grit.
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