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 uem-Tux
    
Iron Wok Jan
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
 |  |  |  | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 20 on 9/13/2003 3:27 AM >
|  | | | You'll find that a lot of us have rules against grafitti...
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 21 on 9/13/2003 3:27 AM >
|  | | | Well, I would always prefer to see places free of grafitti myself. I certainly won't take someone I know would graf a place with me exploring. As for Police, I've had some very positive dealing with them, I don't see the point in disliking them. They are doing their job, and it's an important one.
edit: the post was not making sense...
[last edit 9/12/2003 10:30 PM by Jester - edited 1 times]
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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uem-Tux
Iron Wok Jan
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
| | | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 22 on 9/13/2003 3:44 AM >
| | | | I'm not a big fan of police or security, in my experience, they are opposite in mindset from us. (i.e "Rules are rules! The point is to OBEY! Never question that!")
Weighing in on the grafitti issue, as a concept (great art in a place it can really be seen, with due recognition for the artist) I like it, but in practice there are way too many fucking tags covering every surface in my city, and from what I've seen on grafitti message boards and mailing lists, most "artists" are more interested in trash talk than promoting any actual artistic endeavour.
The grafitti community needs one hell of an ethical overhaul before I'd ever accept it as going hand-in-hand with UE.
Grafitti artists and urban explorers are like oil and water, that is, they're both the same basic thing (liquid) but they don't mix.
Ahhh... it's a clumsy metaphor but I stand by it.
[last edit 9/12/2003 10:46 PM by uem-Tux - edited 1 times]
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 23 on 9/13/2003 3:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by uem-Tux
I'm not a big fan of police or security, in my experience, they are opposite in mindset from us. (i.e "Rules are rules! The point is to OBEY! Never question that!")
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Well, from having sat down in an interrogation room with an RCMP officer personally, I can say thats not entirely true. I sat there and told him about what I did, and had him agreeing with me about it's legality, "yeah, it's a grey area".
How many of us have been pulled over for speeding and let off with a warning ? Well, really... shouldn't we have been given a ticket ? Honestly, they are what you make them. Make them an enemy and they shall be...
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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uem-Tux
Iron Wok Jan
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
| | | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 24 on 9/13/2003 4:08 AM >
| | | | I'm just mad because I got ticketed a $110 dollars for having the wrong bus pass. I was on the commuter train, and apparantly they changed the rules so that there was some special train/bus pass which is only 4 bucks more. I didn't have that pass, so that's what I pay, $110 bucks. I told this to the cop, even offered to buy the pass, but he was a total asshole hardliner. I haven't met all that many security/police, but the ones I have met have been unreasonable by-the-book types.
We are so off topic. 
[last edit 9/12/2003 11:09 PM by uem-Tux - edited 1 times]
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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Stochastic Probability
Location: Barrie
Gender: Male
Yeah, well, keep it down, okay?
| |  | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 25 on 9/13/2003 4:16 AM >
|  | | | In a vain attempt to drag this thread back o-t, I will briefly discuss the book in question I'm in the process of reading it now, and find it interesting. It is, as Max said "artsy, postmodern, contrived, detached and ironic". Now these things can be good in their own way, too much kills the mood. I don't find the book to be about ue or inf'ing so much as about the personalities involved in Jinx, and their "exploits".
It's very hacker style in it's writing, very insider and sly. That said, in a lot of ways it is quite interesting, and I would actually recommend it. Although, I'm not finished it yet, so my opinion could still change
"People say that you'll die
faster than without water,
but we know it's just a lie,
scare your son, scare your daughter" |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 26 on 9/13/2003 4:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by Mr.Rat
I don't agree with how jinx is all centralized and that they have rules against graffiti
(bullshit!). And they like the cops :>(
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I see absolutely no problem with not liking grafitti. Graf artists tend to get security beefed up and draw lots of usually unwanted attention. That and I'm happy seeing just one occasion of some artist's handle sprayed on a wall, much less dozens of times over and over again. That's what paper is for.
Liking the cops is a good thing. They're just doing their job, and showing a negative additide towards them makes them think you are hiding more than you probably are (although you weed-toting graf-spraying window-smashing guys that dub yourselves "explorers" may be in just that situation).
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Caput_58
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 27 on 9/13/2003 5:33 AM >
| | | | I deal with cops on a pretty regular basis, and in general they are pretty likable people. Most I've met aren't really obsessed with rules, they just want to do their job, which is keeping order. The worst thing you can say about them is that they are as human as anyone else.
Caput_58
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Mochi
Location: West Jordan, Utah
Gender: Male
Stare deep into a kitty's nose.
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 28 on 9/13/2003 5:57 AM >
| | | | (pulls out half his hair in disgust and frustration)
GAHHHH!!! NOT ANOTHER THREAD TOPIC CHANGE INTO THE "morals" OF GRAFFITI TAGGING AND FRATERNIZING WITH PO-POs!!! SWEET MERCIFUL MAGILICUTTY, BATMAN!! MAKE IT STOP!!!
(rams head into wall, on accident)
>_< Mochi, unconscious and loving it.
JESUS SAVES!!!
(And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!) |
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reduxzero
Location: Edmonton, AB
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 29 on 9/13/2003 6:08 AM >
| | | | Back to the book.
I bought it, and it was an interesting read- killed many hours riding the bus with it. As mentioned, my copy is now on Jester's dishwasher (read it, you!).
As far as how good it was, I agree with Kowalski's review on page 1 of this thread. My one major complaint- nowhere near enough photos! UE is such a visual thing, the lack of photos saddened me.
It seemed like there was lots of unrelated stuff; mixes of propaganda and storytelling. Jinx has explored some cool places, that's a fact- they just don't talk about the actual exploring enough for my tastes.
While reading, I did find it interesting how the writing tone shifted noticeably from Deyo to Leibowitz and back.
Also, wearing a suit & sunglasses (Jinx uniform) while exploring, absolutely anyplace, is excessive and unnecessary.
reduxzero - DrainsofmyCity |
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punkboy_jerm
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 30 on 9/13/2003 6:58 AM >
|  | | | I know its off topic but I have to add my 2cents!
I love graff's but personally I would never do it(mostly because I suck at it!) I was in a building that had never been explored before and I wrote my name, time and date. that I have no problem with but I would never tag my nick anywhere.
as for the police...I dont hate the police but I just dont trust them. Ive been arrested and abused, ive seen them hit a 6yo girl with a matraque and ive seen them do much worse. I get chills when I see the police...I just cant help it.
Portfolio and blog:
http://www.ibrokeup.net
http://www.escapeisathand.com |
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Ricotta
Nobler Donor
Location: Houston, TX
Gender: Male
De arimasu~
| | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 31 on 9/13/2003 10:53 AM >
| | | | I don't see anything wrong with a small tag like the group's emblem, the date, and maybe a URL, but most graffiti is just crap all over the place. Once I get the supplies and go draining, I'll probably leave Shar's holy symbol(my avatar, FYI) on the wall with some spraypaint, but I won't over do it. I can't see myself tagging a building though. Too many none UEers would see it and think it's just random grafitti.
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ReAct
Location: Northern Jersey... For now.
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 32 on 9/13/2003 2:35 PM >
| | | | Books about UE... That's a funny subject. Places like this site do a lot to encourage new UrbEx fans. How can you argue against a book doing the same thing? But I can also see the point, that it shouldn't be made into another half-hour MTV special like so many other things that were at one time legit and interesting.
The thing to remember, though, is a book is just a book. Even if you don't do it, it's still a lot of fun reading about it. And reading about it would probably be the end of the subject for a vast majority of folks. I think we've all had times were we've been explaining what we do to people and gotten either a dead-pan blank stare or a horrified reaction that we would ever, ever, ever-ever-ever, want to that. It's a safe bet that most people don't want to do what we do. Which is why it's so damned hard to find good, responsible, local crews! *sob*
Graffiti: If you're good at it, and can throw together rediculous murals of incredible detail and complexity, then more goddamn power to you.
Or, if you're in it for the celebrity: Two guys out of D.C., WARP and EXIST have made it a point to put their name in as many different places, in the biggest letters imaginable (on one building front the names are ten feet high!), as they possibly can. They've done a rocking job, as they've effectively covered an area of the East Coast that extends out from Washington by at least thirty miles in any direction. More power to them.
If you're just one of these pansies who likes mindless destruction (don't even get me started on the idiocy of anarchy) or the pretend adrenaline rush that comes from sitting in a pipe no one in their right mind would ever go into (I said "in their right mind" you can't argue that!) then I look at it this way: If you're discharging toxic aerosols while in a confined space, you obviously aren't that goddamn intelligent to begin with, and I've waste enough time talking about you already.
Police: KNOW THE LAWS. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Police have to enforce laws, not their wills, there can sometimes be an incredible difference between the two. Example being: Cursing out a cop is not a punishable offense in a lot of cities. No more different than cursing out your cat. But, before you run off "ReAct said I could tell you to got to hell and you couldn't touch me!" first find out if that's true in your area!
KNOW THE LAWS. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.
All that said: Police do have a very diffricult job. They deal with a lot of f'ed-up stuff day after day. Don't expect a lot of them to be your new best friend. I see no problem trying to talk your way out of trouble, but realise that if you're caught breaking a law, that was your damn fault for getting caught! Take it like the man/woman you probably are!
It is a much better idea to befriend the police than it is to try and be tough and make enemies. They can make your life needlessly diffricult. I knew a lot of local cops around my home town as friends. If they saw me walking, they'd stop and strike up a conversation. They were honestly nice folks, and very good alies to have. There will be asshole cops. That's unavoidable. Keep your answers short, to the point, don't say anything that doesn't need to be said. But don't be a goddamn punching bag, either. There's a fine line, it's something that has to be left to you to determine.
Good luck.
-React
"'13.2V...' Thirteen volts. It's thirteen volts? Jesus, I could practically be made of salt water and this wouldn't hurt me."
"That says '13.2kV.'"
"Ohhhh... Thirteen-thousand volts... I suppose that's a little different...." |
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Mike Dijital
   
UEDB Moderator
Location: Boston MA.
Gender: Male
UE ver. 1.0
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 33 on 9/13/2003 3:31 PM >
|  | | | In my world, "UE" does'nt exsist.
Therefor the threat of books and breaking sacred UE rules is'nt a factor
Try it sometime, makes this hobby superfun
www.deggi5.com / www.mikedijital.com |
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asdafaf
Location: oe'r yonder
I have always been here before.
| | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 34 on 9/13/2003 3:53 PM >
| | | | Blasphemer!
I'm looking for software engineers to hire at Amazon. |
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Mr.Rat
Location: united states
Gender: Male
| | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 35 on 9/13/2003 4:30 PM >
| | | | I personally know alot of graf writerz and they are very talented.I don't mind peoples tags either it's just when people cause unessicary destruction (People etch there names into glass with and acid type solution), that's an overkill. I just don't like to see walls with nothing on them, everything's boring and the same.
Blank walls= Blank minds.....
Tunnel rats eat raw sewage. |
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Chud
Try a 211, you'll just get 187'd...
| | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 36 on 9/13/2003 5:09 PM >
| | | | Blank walls keep the heat in and the bugs out, just the same as colorful ones.
Nobody will not agree with the Russians, ever on anything.
-Kimmo |
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uem-Tux
Iron Wok Jan
Location: Montreal
Gender: Male
UE Geek
| | | | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 37 on 9/13/2003 6:09 PM >
| | | | I'm sorry, there's a big difference between this
and this
Tags are stupid. That is all they are. They aren't art, they aren't interesting, they certainly don't stimulate the mind.
Urban Exploration Montreal
Why are you the way that you are? |
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nominal
Location: Grimsby
Gender: Male
| | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 38 on 9/13/2003 6:59 PM >
| | | | F'in right Tux. Children scribble on walls, an artist develops skills before displaying them.
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kowalski
| | Re: Book out on UE
<Reply # 39 on 9/13/2003 8:08 PM >
| | | | if I were a moderator here, I would split this thread in two.
it's pretty ridiculous how it got sidetracked.
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