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UER Forum > Archived Canada: Ontario > Sail boat? (Viewed 1817 times)
keebler 


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Sail boat?
< on 10/11/2005 7:51 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
This weekend i was on the Q.E.W and saw some kind of sail boat sticking out of the water like it had sunk in a shallow spot. Ive seen it since i was little and im just getting curious, does anyone know what it is?

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 1 on 10/11/2005 7:53 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Near St. Catherines? If so, I have seen it as well, though never had the chance to stop... I think it has something to do with a restaurant.

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Ampro 


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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 2 on 10/11/2005 8:05 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
It's La Grande Hermine, it used to be a restaurant in Montreal a while back, I have not idea when or how it got here, but you'll find it under the Boats section on http://www.infiltration.org

P.S. I used to be a lot more complete but in 2002 some idiots set it on fire and most of it burned away.
[last edit 10/11/2005 8:06 PM by Ampro - edited 1 times]

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 3 on 10/11/2005 8:37 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
The above is all correct. Basically, anything wood was burned away and only the metal shell remains. I haven't been onto the ship, so I can't say what it looks like on the inside post-fire. Might have to go out this winter to have a look.

"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 4 on 10/11/2005 10:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
Just another piece of info, the boat isn't really that old, I think it was built in the 40's. It was "dressed up" to look like a sail boat when they turned it into a restaurant.

Hey daddy-o, i don't wanna go down to the basement, theres something down there, i don't wanna go, hey romeo "I don't wanna go down to the basement"-The Ramones
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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 5 on 10/12/2005 1:11 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
speaking of old boats. Does anyone in the durham region remember the old barge, or ship that was in pickering (or maybe whitby) harbour a few years ago. It was rumored to be full of PCB's. It sat there for years, and then one day it was gone. I heard it had been towed to Toronto, or something like that. If anyone has any pictures, or history on that boat, It would be much appreciated.

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 6 on 10/12/2005 2:50 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by lopix
Near St. Catherines? If so, I have seen it as well, though never had the chance to stop... I think it has something to do with a restaurant.


If I recall correctly, it started life in the early '60s (or possibly late '50s) as a car ferry on Lake Erie.

It was later fitted with a wood outer hull and superstructure to make it resemble Jacques Cartier's ship, Le Grand Hermine, and parked in the St. Lawrence in Montreal for the Expo '67 World's Fair festivities.

Some time after that, It went downriver to Quebec City, where it served as a floating theme restaurant.

Eventually, it came back upriver into Lake Ontario, and was beached where it stands now, in Jordan harbour. It may have been intended to be a restaurant again, but somebody torched it just within the past few years.

As I went walking, I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, That side was made for you and me. - Woody Guthrie, "This Land Is Your Land"
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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 7 on 10/12/2005 2:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
the grande hermine used at expo 67 was all wood, it was floated to quebec city and served as a museum at parc cartier brebeuf, it sunk in the 80s, was hauled up on shore for restauration but fell into greater dis repair and was eventually dismantled. the grende hermine you see was a carferry or motor barge (2 different opinions on boatnerd.com) it was dressed up as la grande hermine for montreals 350th anniversary and when it flopped was towed up to ontario

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 8 on 10/12/2005 3:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
You're probably right, I am confusing two or more ships.

I should Google before I post:



Blaze guts marine landmark

Jennifer Kennedy, The Standard

LINCOLN - Just as its picturesque image lured onlookers to Jordan Marina, so did the old ship's destruction this weekend.

As Niagara Regional Police investigate what they are calling an arson fire that gutted the ship Saturday morning, others turned their thoughts and memories to its better times.

"It was a landmark and a symbol of the area," local marine historian Skip Gillham said. "An awful lot of people stopped here."

Curious locals and tourists alike fought heavy winds off Lake Ontario Saturday to get a closer look at the smouldering mass moored at the Best Western Beacon Harbourside Resort and Conference Centre.

"It was whole and beautiful when we passed it just days ago," said Eileen Depeel as she stood in the parking lot by the tall ship, her hand on a camera mounted on a tripod. "Today it's on fire."

The B.C. resident said she and her husband just noticed the tall ship last week as they drove down the North Service Road on their way to visit a cousin.

Like countless tourists before them, the Depeels unexpectedly and magnetically stopped to gaze at the ship and to take pictures.

Days later, as they passed it again, they noticed its destruction.

"It was a great attraction," she said. "But now this big, old sail ship in all its glory is gone."

The ship's tall masts still reached undamaged to the sky, but that belied the destruction to its hull.

While damage to the ship seemed greater near its stern, most of the ship, nearly 50 metres long, looked torched and blackened.

Where fire completely ate the ship's wood panelling, a steel hull left from its cargo days was clearly visible.

Gillham said the ship, built in 1914 in Lauzon, Que., and originally named Le Progress, began life as a ferry on the St. Lawrence at Trois-Rivieres.

It later became a cargo ship, a floating restaurant and bar and finally, in 1991, converted into a replica ship.

It is a mock replica of the largest of three ships -- called La Grande Hermine -- French explorer Jacques Cartier up the St. Lawrence River in 1535.

It has been moored at Jordan Harbour since July 1, 1997, said Gillham.

While there was talk of the ship becoming a restaurant or a casino, it rested in Niagara unchanged until the fire Saturday morning.

Niagara Regional Police say the Lincoln fire department was called to the fire around 5 a.m. Saturday.

Police say the ship was completely engulfed when firefighters arrived, with flames visible from several kilometres away.

After almost four hours fighting the fire, the fire department was unable to save the vessel.

Hours later, smouldering wood was still visible.

"It's definitely arson," Niagara Regional Police Sergeant Richard Storm said.

Acting Sergeant Glenn Miller said the investigation has been referred to the central arson unit because of the rash of fires recently in Niagara.

Since September, six homes under construction in Niagara have suspiciously burned.

Miller said police are still trying to determine who owns the historic ship, adding there's a possibility the owner is listed with the Town of Lincoln.

In 2000, owners of the Beacon Harbourside and a Quebec marina told The Standard they were owed significant amounts of money in dockage fees from separate owners of the vessel.

Both businesses said they didn't know how to collect on their outstanding bills.

A damage estimate is not known.


© Copyright 2003 St Catharines Standard

As I went walking, I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, That side was made for you and me. - Woody Guthrie, "This Land Is Your Land"
oldtimer 


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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 9 on 10/12/2005 4:44 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
This article confuses the two ships again: the St Catharines with the Expo '67 one. So I don't know what's what...

Group burning to rebuild torched galleon...
Plan is to set up period shipyard near Pier 4 Park"

By Paul Wilson
The Hamilton Spectator
Sep. 13, 2003

My first summer job was at Expo '67 in Montreal, working for an American amusement ride company. The guy who hired me thought I was 18. When he found out I'd just turned 16, he almost fired me. Instead, I got to be a relief worker on rides like the Super Himalaya and Voyage a la Lune. My other job was to go find the boss whenever there was a problem.

No cellphones then, so I had to track him down on foot. This guy -- sharp dresser, dark hair slicked straight back, wrap-around sunglasses day and night -- had left his lady in New Jersey and was partying hard every night.

I'd look for him first in the bar at the La Ronde marina. If he wasn't there, I would head up the gangplank of La Grande Hermine, a floating restaurant on the Lake of Dancing Waters, the place where they set off the fireworks each night.

I don't know if the food was good aboard ship. I never did more than go in, fetch the boss and leave. But that boat was part of my memories of the big fair.

A half dozen years ago, history followed me down the QEW. The boat showed up at the Beacon Hotel in Jordan, 30 kilometres east of Hamilton.

It looks like a pirate ship, crow's nests and all. But it wasn't supposed to be a villain's vessel. They named it La Grande Hermine (The Big Ermine) after the ship that French explorer Jacques Cartier sailed up the St. Lawrence in 1535.

The history on what the 140-foot replica did before and after its days as a floating restaurant is murky.

The ship may have started life as an icebreaker in 1941.

For Expo, they covered all that steel with wood, added three tall masts and she looked like a centuries-old galleon.

It's said that later she was a floating casino. Then she's supposed to have gotten tangled up in a cigarette smuggling operation. The RCMP seized her and she came to the Beacon in 1997.

She was to be a floating restaurant again, but that never happened. The ship sat there, at least providing a handy landmark for the hotel.

Last January, fire broke out on board. They figure kids set a blaze in the ornate ballroom, the one with the nude murals. Pretty well everything made of wood burned up -- the ballroom, the deck, the planks that covered the hull.

But two of three tall masts survived, along with the furled sails of steel mesh.

So the ship is still an eyecatcher from the highway.

It caught the eye of Rod Hedley of Olcott, N.Y. and he stopped by the ship Wednesday. He's president of the Lake Ontario Shipwreck Preservation Society and he'd like to see La Grande Hermine dumped in the waters off his state as the first piece of a theme park for divers. He's hoping the burned-out boat could be donated for the cause.

Fritz Loitsch told him they'd have to think about that. Fritz says he's harbour master at the marina. He says he's "been instructed by the owners to take all offers." But he's not saying who the owners are. Maybe he even has a piece of the place himself. He operates from a lovely waterfront suite in the hotel.

Suddenly, he says, there seems to be interest in the grand wreck. There was that fellow from New York Wednesday. And just a few days before that, he had a visit from four members of the Hamilton Ships Company of 1812. It was formed nearly 10 years ago, with the goal of setting up an authentic period shipyard within a log palisade near Pier 4 Park. There people could see a tall ship being built. Then the Hamilton ship would sail all over, much like the Pride of Baltimore.

The group was never able to pull that off, but has stayed active. One of the founders is Gill Bibby, 61. He's been working on boats since he was 15, when he came out of school in Burnley, England, with a box of tools. He started right in at a boatyard, making canal barges. He came to Canada in the mid-'60s and has a boat shop in Binbrook where he restores old wooden beauties.

La Grande Hermine, its bow now sitting on the sandy bottom, had filled up with water since that fire. Last Saturday Gill and friends pumped a lot of it out and today they return to make sure the water has stayed out, and that the hull is not leaking. They'll also take some measurements.

They need to determine if a working tall ship could be built on that old steel hull. The goal would be to haul it into the west end of Hamilton Harbour.

"Slap bang between the Haida and the new museum site would be perfect," Gill says. There, with the talents of retired woodworkers, pipefitters, welders, plus college students who want to learn, a ship of olden days would take shape and set sail.

Land, money, lots of luck -- they would need all of that and more. Gill is a patient man.

"We're not discouraged. Really. We'll stay at it. Boats are a disease. There is no cure."

StreetBeat appears Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. Contact Paul Wilson at pwilson@thespec.com or 905-526-3391.

copyright 1996-2003, The Hamilton Spectator.


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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 10 on 10/12/2005 6:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
well my info comes on good authority that it ISNT the expo 67 ship, the museum setup in parc cartier brebeuf in quebec city shows the ship in expo and being towed to quebec city. its all there in color glossy!

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lopix 


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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 11 on 10/12/2005 6:06 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by gworb
speaking of old boats. Does anyone in the durham region remember the old barge, or ship that was in pickering (or maybe whitby) harbour a few years ago. It was rumored to be full of PCB's. It sat there for years, and then one day it was gone. I heard it had been towed to Toronto, or something like that. If anyone has any pictures, or history on that boat, It would be much appreciated.


There was/is one in Frenchman's Bay in Pickering, some sort of bird habitat or something, to help with the wetlands restoration I believe. Not 100%, but it feels right...

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 12 on 10/12/2005 10:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Expo 67 boat at expo 67... shitty image sorry, its from a contact sheet.



Same ship set up as a display in Cartier-Brébeuf National Historic Site of Canada in Quebec City.



I have some nice shots of the Jordan Station one somewhere.....


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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 13 on 10/13/2005 2:02 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by gworb
speaking of old boats. Does anyone in the durham region remember the old barge, or ship that was in pickering (or maybe whitby) harbour a few years ago. It was rumored to be full of PCB's. It sat there for years, and then one day it was gone. I heard it had been towed to Toronto, or something like that. If anyone has any pictures, or history on that boat, It would be much appreciated.


Yeah, I remember that boat. It was a ferry until someone bought it and tied it up in Whitby harbour for some project that never came about due to no cash. It sat there for a number of years (I believe about 8) and then someone else bought it to convert to a restaurant somewhere in Toronto. However, they got as far as towing it away but nothing else was heard. As far as I know, it may have wound up either on the bottom of the lake or in the scrap yard. I had some shots of it taken years ago with my 110. If I can find them, I'll add them to this thread.

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 14 on 10/13/2005 2:52 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Mutt
Expo 67 boat at expo 67... shitty image sorry, its from a contact sheet.



Same ship set up as a display in Cartier-Brébeuf National Historic Site of Canada in Quebec City.



I have some nice shots of the Jordan Station one somewhere.....



it has since been turned into a pile of kindleing

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 15 on 10/13/2005 3:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
nostra-YOUPPI is correct, the Jordan ship is not the replica of "La Grande Hermine" that was displayed at Expo '67:

http://www2.cdn-news.com/scripts/ccn-release.pl?/2001/06/08/0608096n.html?cp=ccnmatthews_f

As I went walking, I saw a sign there,
And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, That side was made for you and me. - Woody Guthrie, "This Land Is Your Land"
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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 16 on 10/13/2005 10:28 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I just made a post in another thread about shipwrecks...I guess it would have been better here. A couple weeks ago I was just west of Hamilton on the QEW, or 403 I'm not sure, and I drove past a derelict ship listing to one side close to shore. It looked like it was constructed with steel. I just read the press release about the Grand Hermine being demo-ed in 2001, so my question is...what is or was this ship?

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 17 on 10/14/2005 12:59 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
read from the beginning of this thread my friend, your answer is there. Also, click on the link below,
http://www.infiltration.org
and then click on boats, and then la grande harmine
[last edit 10/14/2005 2:02 AM by gworb - edited 2 times]

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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 18 on 10/14/2005 3:13 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Took this a couple years ago.





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Re: Sail boat?
<Reply # 19 on 10/14/2005 12:10 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Yep, that's what I saw.

UER Forum > Archived Canada: Ontario > Sail boat? (Viewed 1817 times)
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