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 junkyard
  
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
 |  |  | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 60 on 9/22/2005 1:59 AM >
|  | | | I guess what I'm saying is that things have a habbit of getting twisted to the reporters needs, not ours. You have less control over that than you may think. I would rather be doing something fun in my few moments of free time than giving interview after interview.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 61 on 9/22/2005 3:22 AM >
|  | | | Posted by junkyard
I guess what I'm saying is that things have a habbit of getting twisted to the reporters needs, not ours. You have less control over that than you may think. I would rather be doing something fun in my few moments of free time than giving interview after interview.
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Actually, you have far more than you realize. First, you go in with a non disclosure agreement (they will follow it if only for keeping journalistic integrity to the public). Then, when you're out for the interview, you steer the questions by your answers. I can turn almost any question into an ethics connection and ramble about that. By the end of the interview, they really have to end up running some of your *message* or they've got nothing, and they won't make up shit because of the wording of the NDA in the section outlining what info they can use for the story... As for pictures, you give them what you want them to have. "hey pose opening that door"----"no, I won't do that, how about this..." and they end up with what you give them cause they need something. They won't redo the whole story with some nimrod because time is money and they want it done...
And in a community of explorers the size you have there, you certainly wouldn't have to give every interview if a few decent people took turns...
It's easy.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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Krenta
 
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Nope, wasn't me.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 62 on 9/22/2005 6:44 AM >
| | | | NDAs are useful, but here in MN, nobody but the free tabloid has ever been willing to go anywhere with anyone, NDA or no. Lawyers, you understand. Actually, a number have been more than willing, but they got shot down by their lawyers, quite understandably.
And in a community of explorers the size you have there, you certainly wouldn't have to give every interview if a few decent people took turns...
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As far as I know, in the Twin Cities UE community - a community, however disorganized, that can reliably manage to number over fifty, for a dinner gathering, and probably numbers closer to 80, if not higher - there are no more than five people who are willing to actually meet with and talk to the media, and one of them (Max) is infamous for neither meeting with reporters in person, letting his picture be taken, or letting his real name be used. His phone number isn't widely available, and from what I've heard he pretty much responds to email only, by email only, which all told makes him less than completely attractive to your typical question-filled reporter. You can learn anything and everything about UE by reading websites, and people have even done articles entirely based on quotes from Action Squad's site, but it lacks any real human-interest angle, and quotes, if you can get any usable ones, are hard and unwieldy to attribute. Hence, the demand for warm bodies to answer questions.
As you can see, the problem, for some people, is that there are only a very few people, decent or otherwise, willing to deal with the media. Haterade seems to be a popular drink around here; everyone hates the media, hates the cops, hates each other...
Have Speed Graphic, Will Travel. |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 63 on 9/22/2005 7:01 AM >
| | | | Now that's a good idea Jester, have more than one person do it. Just maybe, more that one POV could prove usefull. As far as everyone hating the media, cops and everyone else, I think that might be a bit short sighted. Most people in the TC area don't fall under any of those criteria. I don't TRUST the media, and for several good reasons. I don't TRUST ALL cops, for good reason. But I have more cop friends or allys than you might imagine. And I don't trust certain people. Hate is a powerfull word, but yes there are some scumbags that I hate.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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Spooky
Location: Jersey C.I.
Gender: Male
And your problem is what exactly ?
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 64 on 9/22/2005 7:53 AM >
| | | | Posted by Krenta
Yeah, I meant Max Action, infamous head of Action Squad, the hard-partying, mullet-sporting rebel who seems to have come down with a bad case of an adult-onset allergy to website updates a girlfriend. 
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It’s not implausible that the lack of action (pardon the pun) on the web site has more to do with keeping the latest adventures for the forthcoming blockbuster. Is UE about to go commercial ?
It might look like I’m doing nothing – but at the cellular level I’m really quite busy ! |
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 65 on 9/22/2005 2:43 PM >
| | | | I've had one reporter say no to the NDA, and when I said back "ok, well thanks for your interest then, sorry I can't give you the interview without that show of good faith"... their story changed and suddenly the NDA was fine...
Of course even without an NDA you still can direct the story how you like by how you answer questions. Don't jump through their hoops.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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GreyKat
 
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 66 on 9/22/2005 7:39 PM >
| | | | Like Krenta says we have a fairly large community of people in the cities. At one recent coffee get together we had 53 in attendance and I know of at least 15 more that didnt make it personally as well as probably another 20-30 that dont have internet, explore by themselves, or didnt make it for one reason or another. And thats just the ones I KNOW of and there are bound to be more.
Out of this large group most are unwilling to speak with the media mainly because it seems to do no good, or the media casts the wrong light on things. Even Krenta's good intentions have failed when interviewing for them.
I dont think the haterade thing is exactly true though. We dont exactly trust the cops or media and sometimes not even each other. Things tend to explode when we are unsure of intentions and dont find out until afterwards that someone has acted in the community interest without talking to the community first. I dont want to get flames flying, but with the light that has been getting cast on us all by the media and the increasing amounts of it we may want to get more of a group consensus on things, and maybe even follow the example of the Cave Clan in Sydney when they started getting loads of bad press and doing a media shut down. Its something to talk about in the private forums and come to an agreement as a kinda sorta group rather than individually dont you think? We are all individuals and can do whatever we want but for an instance like this maybe we should talk as a group and decide from there. At least that my two cents on it.
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katwoman
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
Gender: Female
| |  | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 68 on 9/23/2005 3:06 AM >
| | | | Posted by GreyKat
Things tend to explode when we are unsure of intentions and dont find out until afterwards that someone has acted in the community interest without talking to the community first... we may want to get more of a group consensus on things, and maybe even follow the example of the Cave Clan in Sydney when they started getting loads of bad press and doing a media shut down. |
I like it. Perhaps if one feels that an interview is absolutely necessary, one should speak only for oneself, and not mention the "group." Doing so would imply that the interviewee is the spokesperson for all members' feelings, when that may not actually be the case.
One exception here is the documentary done by Melody, which is nearing completion. Now, I am a part of this documentary, but when it was started in early 2004, the only publicity I was aware of had been the December arrests near the ethenol plant. Now that this documentary is global, rather then focused on the Twin Cities, I am less worried.
But yes, GreyKat, I think you are right; that, in the end, people will do what they want to do. I heard today that Max Action did an interview on 89.3 FM. *rolling eyes*
Right now, I'm starting to think that the Cave Clan's decision would be a wise choice for the Twin Cities.
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GreyKat
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 69 on 9/23/2005 5:33 PM >
| | | | If anyone has a transcript of Max's interview to post it would be appreciated. I only caught the last few minutes of it when he was talking about the tail races, utility, and steam tunnels.
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Jadenala
Location: Twin Cities
Gender: Female
| |  |  | | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 71 on 9/25/2005 3:14 AM >
| | | | Wow, Amber, your still alive!! Haven't seen you around for a long time. explored anywhere cool lately?
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GreyKat
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 72 on 9/25/2005 3:16 AM >
| | | | Heya Amber, Thanks! I already got it and forgot to post I had it, now I suppose Ill hear all about it. 
Anyway thanks for posting a link.
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Miss_Informed
putting the gore in gorgeous
| | | | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 73 on 9/25/2005 4:03 AM >
| | | | Posted by Jadenala
Wow, Amber, your still alive!! Haven't seen you around for a long time. explored anywhere cool lately?
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alive and kickin ... haven't 'splored any structures lately ('cause I suck), but I did drive down to the MN/IA border to check out an abandoned cemetery couple'a days ago. (Loon Lake Cemetery ... s'posed to be haunted ... bah)
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GreyKat
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 74 on 9/25/2005 6:13 AM >
| | | | Yeah Ive been saying that for years. I liked the place a lot better before vandals got to it. I remember several years ago there were many more headstones there.
We were just there last Sunday with a group of people on our way back from an all weekend UE trip. A couple of things I noticed....The memorial with all the names is fairly new. Well at least since the last time I was there. The "witches" headstone is once again missing. Last I heard it was in storage in the county courthouse because kids kept stealing it. To bad it was a nice stone and displayed some good historical funereal traditions of that time.
The quotation on it was fairly common for its day but Im sure you never read about what the stone said on those haunted sites.
"As I am now, so you shall be. Prepare therefore to follow me."
In other words...everyone dies eventually. The stone also had a pentagram on it above the inscription. Now I know you already know that doesnt have anything to do with the devil. I have been highly interested in funereal practices and traditions for years, must have been my mom introducing me to headstone etching when I was a kid that got me started.
Loon Lake is in the area I grew up in. I made several photo trips there when I was in high school and think I still have the negatives or at least a photo or two laying around at my folks house. If the place interests you I have a lot of research on it already and you are more than welcome to look at some older photos over coffee sometime. Heres the latest round of photos from two weeks ago:
http://hollow-hills.com/Gallery/Loon-Lake
I have been pretty busy but will add text to the gallery soon.
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GreyKat
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 75 on 9/25/2005 6:16 AM >
| | | | PS - sorry I didnt mean to hijack the thread. Amber just got me going on a place Ive been going to and documenting for years.
*edit for spelling correction*
[last edit 9/25/2005 6:16 AM by GreyKat - edited 1 times]
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Doug
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 76 on 10/26/2005 4:42 AM >
| | | | Posted by Doug
When we started exploring, we used the media to gain new members. New members lead to new locations.
When we do media interviews nowadays (which is hardly ever) it is with selected media and we always direct the stories away from terrorism. We never mention bridges or service tunnels any more. Our website is being updated to remove all links/references to anything that might be deemed a threat.
At the moment I wouldn't do a media interview with the mainstream media at all.
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To elaborate...
we are having a major sporting event in Melbourne soon (Commonwealth Games) and for that reason I wouldn't do any mainstream interviews.
I know it's all been said before, but for the sake of repetitiveness...
I know the media can twist the truth - you can not say a word about Terrorism and the voice over will be like, "Blah blah blah Terrorism blah blah threat to society" and that sucks.
However, as far as ruining locations, they can only reveal what you reveal. The Sydney branch of the Cave Clan have a media ban, but if they were honest they would have to blame themselves - they were on TV saying stuff that they shouldn't have - or stuff would be printed in an article.
Sydney would treat it as an expo and invite everyone along, and if people weren't invited they would sook.
I think that IF you deal with the media follow these rules -
1 - Select the media you deal with (if you deal with Fox, you will get foxed over!)
2 - Select the location you take them to - make sure the location(s) can't be locked up or trashed by vandals who see the article.
3 - Select a few people to do the interview. If you have 20 people present, the reporter is bound to get something out of a newer inexperienced member who is wanting to get their head on TV/in a mag.
4 - Make sure you all know what TO and what NOT TO say.
5 - Avoid all the problems by not doing the interview.
I might list the reasons why I've done media interviews next time I'm here.
Anyway, it's all just my opinion.
Cheers,
Doug
The Urbex Zine Guy
https://www.cavecl...wtopic.php?t=12259
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5meodmt
Location: St. paul mn
Gender: Male
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 77 on 10/27/2005 3:49 PM >
| | | | Posted by HolyJesusILoveCreed
+GOD DAMN SHIT FUCK COCK PISS MOTHER FUCKING CUNT, thats all the swear words that came to me in a split second
Yay, great, in the fucking star trib, how many little twats will say they are "Urban Explorers", and the papers obviously know about the lab, now we all know who the fuck was in the video that stated "I could bring the whole city down if I wanted" I think "reak havoc" was the phrase used, I wish we just werent in the paper or news at all. I dont want what we do to be popular.
I dont know if anyone knew, but a Fox News network reporter wanted to get together with me a few months ago.
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Shit, i completley forgot about that bullshit sagment on channel 5. i used to have the tape somewhere but i looked and coudnt find it. anyone got the link for it?
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 78 on 10/29/2005 12:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by GreyKat
I just laugh every time I think of them piling up a mound of smokeless powder and using a firecracker as a fuse. The next frame pops into mind when the firecracker fuse burns fast and leaves a circle of now hairless, eyebrowless dumbass people looking bewildered at what happened and why it didnt work. They obviously had no clue about explosives or they would have been charged with having pipe bombs or something rather than simply powder and firecrackers. They should have called themselves the Keystone Explorers.
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Great visual GreyKat! I'm laughing right now as I'm typing!
Posted by Krenta
Keystone Invaders. Get it right. 
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Actually I was thinking of Moron Invaders! Krenta!
That visual is just beautiful! Thank you very much for the laugh!
[last edit 10/29/2005 12:54 AM by rainman8889 - edited 1 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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GreyKat
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: Too Bad.....MN explorers in the news again
<Reply # 79 on 10/29/2005 3:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by 5meodmt
Shit, i completley forgot about that bullshit sagment on channel 5. i used to have the tape somewhere but i looked and coudnt find it. anyone got the link for it?
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I dont have a link but I have it in avi format.
Your welcome rainman8889, we seem to have more than our share of keystone invaders (Thanks Krenta). The latest clueless comedian fell seven stories into a grain elevator and walked away with no broken bones after it took a couple of hours for firemen to rescue his dumb ass. Lucky for him there was grain still in it and unlucky for us its another bad media mark. We need to send our keystone invaders on tour so all cities can have as much fun with them as we do.
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