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Server Time:
2024-05-11 10:42:46
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 Neo
   
Location: Maryland
Gender: Male
I have to return some videotapes
 |  | Magnet Doors(specific Case)
< on 9/4/2005 6:56 AM >
|  | | | I'm trying to gain access to a rooftop in a building where i live, because it would be just plain cool.
There are no locks on the doors, but the doors seem to be held shut BY a magnet, and there is a key in a circuit box which apparently links to the door AND to building security/some sort of alarm
any ideas short of scaling the building?
here are some pics-
whole assembly
closeup of door's magnet
also, there is a small 16"x16" metal panel which seems removable and other panels near it; see pics
im planning on removing the top plate, then attempting to disassemble the other panels, and then place some sort of false screw heads&magnet combo so that the panels will stay in place but be easily removed.
upper panel
lower pane(there are like 6 of these about 3" tall)
this is the tallest building in the area so access would be awesome
** Lexi has opped Neo
<Lexi> I'm watching you.
<Neo> Thank you Lexi ** Neo has de-opped Lexi |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 1 on 9/4/2005 10:54 AM >
|  | | | have you tried disconnecting the door section of the magnet and duct taping it to the other magnet section (so you won't break contact) but then you would still be able to use the door.. then theres always the pop the door open and see what happens from a distance idea....
Another thing you could do is start learning how to pick locks and figure out what the lock does (but that comes with some risk of it doing something completely unexpected)
Could it be rigged to the fire alarm? although it wouldn't make a whole lot of sence the way thats setup and that it's a roof access.. But sometimes they rig firedoors to magnets (but those are normally to close the doors and not unlock them.. and if it did it'd make more sence on ground level not rooftop)
In any case there would almost have to be an actually mechanical lock to provide any kind of security (power outage)... not to mention that seems a lil on the 'Hi-tech' side for some apartment building
I suppose if your power ever goes out haul ass up there and check it.. 
What would make sence the most to me is thats just a security alarm, which is easy enough, and theres just a lock somewhere that you are missing (or some kinda buzzer maybe like in the front of some buildings?) IF it is just a security alarm then the key in the board should just be there to disable it.. I'd say get onto the roof another way and get a look at the outside of the door (if thats possible)
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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atomx
   
Location: Brighton, ON
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 2 on 9/4/2005 12:43 PM >
| | | | I've seen these many a times in colleges and universities. This will hold the door shut even with a power outage.
We tried with four people pushing on the doors once to try and open one.
Good luck.
The best idea would be to pick the lock.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Richard Cook |
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Shinken
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Time enjoyed waisting, was not waisted.
| | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 3 on 9/4/2005 4:11 PM >
| | | | There is a book called "Easy Pickings" published by Beckman Associates int. That is the book we used to learn, and after we got a basic idea, the rest was self taught with experience. The book comes with a decent set of basic beginner picks too. From all the locksmiths I have talked to, the picks in the set it comes with is really all you will ever need. As far as the door being rigged to a fire alarm, I agree with Pravus, it is doubtful that a fire alarm would be rigged to a roof access door, but it could be a security system. If you want an fool proof way to get around the security system for future reference (but I don't recommend it since everyone will know you were there) is to cut through the door below the lock assembly. assuming you have the tools to do so. The good thing about this: it wont set off the alarm if you are careful and you have a few hours of exploration. Bad thing: it is kind of obvious what the bad things are. I would suggest alternate way to the roof and work your way backwards. How many stories is it?
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Ultramasturbatron
| | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 4 on 9/4/2005 4:16 PM >
| | | | I would have to imagine that it would be better to try to use social engineering and talk with someone to get access. I can admire wanting to know how to disable the lock itself, but it's always good to have "plan b".
Although, to help in disabling the lock (if it's possible) I would probably look closer at the mechanism on the door. Looks to have a label with company information possibly. Researching it, might help.
***EDIT***
Did a bit more searching, you might go here www.lockpicking101.com for more help also.
[last edit 9/4/2005 5:05 PM by Ultramasturbatron - edited 2 times]
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Neo
Location: Maryland
Gender: Male
I have to return some videotapes
| | More Details
<Reply # 5 on 9/4/2005 5:33 PM >
| | | | SKIP DOWN TO THE CONCLUSION PART UNLESS YOU WANT TO READ ME TALKING TO MYSELF
I made the post at 3am and was paranoid about campus security lol......
these doors are on the 13 aka roof floor, and this place is WIRED for security. they just put in card scanners and all that so theres no doubt that this door is linked to security of some sort
as atomx said this door is help shut by the magnet and will probably remain so. there elevator shaft sticks out of the roof by 14' so i imagine that it WILl travel to the roof....but i have no idea how to 'hack it' there are four keyholes in the elevator that are unlabeled and may all require being activated to ge the thing up to the roof..... im tempted to pop the panel and inspect the wiring
elevators are pretty much in use 24/7 though....12 floors full of college kids...
im going to probably end up jumping out the window. if i can borrow another camera ill go do some more recon
thanks for the advice/tips on the mag doors
as for lock picking ive been experimenting with making some of my own picks and all that...ive read the MIT manual already and understand the process im just having a little trouble making picks
**EDIT**
i highly doubt that there would be an alarm on the wiring box which the lock assembly is encased in...don't you agree? i could always just unscrew the cover...inspect the wiring...possible open door and trick security into thinking it's still closed?
GRRRR i want my rubber gloves right now!
****EDIT2*****
Recon:
i went up and unscrewed the plates.........checked out the wiring and it IS connected to the fire alarm system! the key box operates in a fashion so that it seems that when the switch is in the closed position the door is locked; and when it is open the door is unlocked. i could just hit the switch with my hand; no picking required......the only thing is that the outgoing wire from the switch goes into the wall and i have no idea wtf happens to it :-/
the box that appears to control the magnet has lines from the fire alarm system going to it and a line from the keyswitch. the only problem is that the circuit isn't open.....its in a sealed plastic box that looks like a transformer (kinda like one a laptop might use for power only its bigger)
all the lines running around appear to be 120VAC so im a little nervous working around them (i'm fairly experienced with electricity though)
argeinn the suspense builds!
************conclusion********
after careful inspection i learned that the magnet it capable of withstanding a 2500lb force....so not even my truck could've pulled the door open!
the wiring goes as so for the door:
fire.alarm.main->fir.alarm.control.box-120vac->key.switch->24VDC.adapter->door.magnet
so that if the power goes out the door
so i did my wiring magic and popped the door....peeked out and ran like the dickens just in case a silent alarm was there
the electromagnetic box is like 12"x2"x2" and i inspected all the wiring but im just paranoid....ill keep my ears peeled and if theres no talk of alarms later on ill probably be going up tonight
ill post pics if i can borrow a camera again
UE rocks! what a rush!
******more notes*****
on the roof side of the door there is a bigass red button...perhaps to let trapped people back in?
i dont know....im tempted to hit it and see what happens
after going out a few times it would appear that there isn't an alarm since no siren is screaming when i open up the door....and technically i cant get in trouble since there aren't any "AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY" signs.....but i'm just kind of paranoid that if i leave the magnet disengaged it will report to somewhere that it is open.
im thinking that since the wires from the keyswitch go into the wall they probably follow this path:
keyswitch->big.red.roof.button->wall->mag control
hopefully!
if i get visitor(s) while hanging out on the roof ill just explain myself and hopefully they wont freak out and expel me. i hear that cash goes over quite well with security personnel
[last edit 9/4/2005 11:01 PM by Neo - edited 4 times]
** Lexi has opped Neo
<Lexi> I'm watching you.
<Neo> Thank you Lexi ** Neo has de-opped Lexi |
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Mark
 
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 6 on 9/4/2005 10:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by atomx
I've seen these many a times in colleges and universities. This will hold the door shut even with a power outage.
We tried with four people pushing on the doors once to try and open one.
Good luck.
The best idea would be to pick the lock.
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My best friend has pulled several open on my university
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 7 on 9/5/2005 8:32 AM >
| | | | If you want to make your own picks from scratch you can look at the basic shape you need them to be (the one you really need for sure if the diamond pick) then make the pick from a bristle of a street cleaner, sand them down untill they are all pretty then grind the shape out of them with a dremmel or another such tool, the bristles make nice picks, as for a tension wrench you could use anything that will fit such as a bent screwdriver, a nail thats been pounded into shape..... I can assure you they will work, my brother made a set this way..
If you don't want to go wandering the street looking for the bristles just go to the public works or where ever they would be kept and tell them you are doing research for a paper about some BS topic.. and have someone (an attractive female is always good for this kind of role) drone off random pointless questions to the guy to keep him busy and grab a few off a street cleaner..
It's nice to have an actual set, but if your a projects kinda guy then this could also be a fun lil side thing
Diamond pick -
______/\
________\
Can you use the fire escape hatch in the elevator and climb the shaft as an alt way up?
[last edit 9/5/2005 8:40 AM by Pravus - edited 2 times]
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Neo
Location: Maryland
Gender: Male
I have to return some videotapes
| | NEIN ALARM
<Reply # 8 on 9/6/2005 4:28 AM >
| | | | oh man.........i just went up and hung out for like an hour and a half
theres really nothing to describe it....unless you are a more experienced UE-er than me
first time ue-ing went well......
no alarm.
no security
lock was disabled for 1.5 hours no one came charging out
i guess they realize that if someone is smart enough to get up there they're not going to do anything irresponsible
way to go civil engineers!
** Lexi has opped Neo
<Lexi> I'm watching you.
<Neo> Thank you Lexi ** Neo has de-opped Lexi |
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Louie
| | | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 9 on 9/6/2005 6:49 AM >
| | | | Posted by Neo
i guess they realize that if someone is smart enough to get up there they're not going to do anything irresponsible
way to go civil engineers!
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Or perhaps they just didn't notice... as you said, there was no alarm or anything of any sort, just the complex wiring.
Now go for the steam tunnels!!
Edit:
What school?
[last edit 9/6/2005 6:49 AM by Louie - edited 1 times]
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Agent Skelly
  
Web Sheriff
Location: Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| |  | | | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 10 on 9/8/2005 4:11 PM >
| | | | My HS had the magent locks on the hallway perimeter doors. What was interesting is that the magents were actually electromagnets that were controlled by the security system in the school and well they defaulted to enough magetisim to hold the door open but could be closed still by hand.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 11 on 9/8/2005 10:46 PM >
| | | | Posted by Agent Skelly
My HS had the magent locks on the hallway perimeter doors. What was interesting is that the magents were actually electromagnets that were controlled by the security system in the school and well they defaulted to enough magetisim to hold the door open but could be closed still by hand.
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Yea, My HS had these too.. they were (or at least what they told us) fire doors, when the fire alarm goes off the magnets let all the doors close, to keep the fire from spreading faster or something..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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atomx
Location: Brighton, ON
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 12 on 9/9/2005 12:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by Pravus
Yea, My HS had these too.. they were (or at least what they told us) fire doors, when the fire alarm goes off the magnets let all the doors close, to keep the fire from spreading faster or something..
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Yes we had those too.
But these are for keeping it shut, even when the power goes out.
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Richard Cook |
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rostit
Location: South Eastern PA
Gender: Male
Imma herpin ma derp like YEAHH!!
| | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 13 on 9/16/2005 11:53 AM >
| | | | HEHE. I used to put these in. You are very close and will probably figure it out but this is what to do.
Open the panel with the keyswitch and cut one of the wires about 3 or 4" away from the keyswitch. Then strip the wires and have a nice wirenut handy. When you break the circuit you are removing power to the electromagnet at the door. If there is an alarm then there would most likely be a seperate magnetic door sensor with another wire coming from it. The panel you see is a standard electrical/conduit panel. Ignore it.
The big red button outside the door is to de-activate the magnetic door lock. If for some reason they have a screwball lock that uses a switch that is active only when its closed connect a wire via alligator clips across the keyswitch terminals. I doubt thats the case. Its a standard cheesy maglock. nothing special.
Again, if you remove power to the magnetis unit the door will remain unlocked as long as the power is off(to the magnetic unit) Sometimes they will have 12vbackup batteries and chargers around but in this case you could even unscrew the power adapter from its outlet and just unplug it. Then when you are done plug it back in. My personal choice would be to open the keylock up and remove the internal locking pins and springs. Re-assemble it and dont tell anyone about it. The real key will still work and so would anything else that can turn the lock.
Just my 2cents
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Malabaristo
Location: Eau Claire Wisconsin
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 14 on 9/21/2005 3:37 AM >
|  | | | I worked in a place that used similar locks on some of the doors, but since you've already gotten around that I won't bother explaining how. What might be good for you to realize is that a lack of audible alarm or immediate response doesn't necesarily mean the door isn't monitored. Our doors had reed switches, the wiring for which was separate from the lock itself. Generally that means a magnet imbedded in the edge of the door with the switch in the jamb so that it's neither visible nor susceptible to tampering when the door is closed.
When the door opens, all you get is a blip on a computer in the security station. What happens after that is up to the guard on duty and his or her level of laziness. Obviously, the door may just not be alarmed, but you should be aware that you may still run into problems in the future.
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Darkwolf
Mellow Moderator
Location: Florida... Again...
Gender: Male
I fix things!
| | Re: Magnet Doors(specific Case)
<Reply # 15 on 9/23/2005 11:32 PM >
| | | | We have safety release magnets all over our facility and I have had the pleasure of installing a few and man are they fun. The easiest way to defeat one is to just have the reset/release key, which you can get from grainger. Saves you from having to take it apart because some have tamper switches inside but most are just stand alone setups so they dont report to a main security system. If you see a 12 or 24volt transformer plugged in close by there is a 90% chance that will cut of the magnet. Locknetics.com has a lot of useful info.
Here is some info about the magnet pictured below: Units are Designed to Stay Locked as Long as Power is Supplied, Authorized Release by Inserting Key into Unit Reader or with Remote Activation Device, Unauthorized Release will Activate Light and Audible Alarms, Egress delay of 15 seconds is preset.
Door Magnet
*Best Post Ever* any meetups to go to the malt plant? I'll join and be the first one over, so you know I'm not a cop. Also I'll bring beer. *DO NOT MESSAGE ME WITH ISSUES. PLEASE USE CONTACT A MODERATOR* |
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