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 fedge
    
Location: Gaud Corners, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
you blight up my life™®
 |  |  | Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
< on 8/3/2005 8:11 AM >
|  | | | Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
Residents fume about air quality and smoke clouds coming from demolition site. Urban explorers, wearing masks and eyewear, were oblivious to the dust tornados however...
http://www.durhamr...292p-3416654c.html
18-odd Years Of UER-ing! |
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 1 on 8/3/2005 9:13 AM >
| | | | Yeah, shutterbug and I were out there today and it was a real dust storm.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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IndianaTeach
Im lovin' those knobs!
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 2 on 8/3/2005 11:15 AM >
| | | | This is why politicians should be forced to get a science degree. So they learn that their actions can have serious chemical and biological effects. Am I alone here when I see one of the worst Canadian (or surely at least provincial) environmental mistakes? I mean come on, homeowners have strict laws governing asbestos removal, yet they are allowed to jeopardize our health by demolishing without safe removal procedures? And the chemicals will be airborne, water-borne, and the rest backfilled into the land. Need proof people that asbestos was used there? Look at this pic!
I wish I was a lawyer right now. Id start a class action lawsuit.
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IndianaTeach
Im lovin' those knobs!
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 3 on 8/3/2005 12:23 PM >
| | | | Here is a copy of the letter I wrote Whitby Council...
Dear Whitby Council,
I am writing you all to express my concerns for the current demo of the old psychiatric buildings on Gordon Street by the lake. Having a strong academic science background/degrees, I know that asbestos and lead particles have serious long-term health consequences. It also has been widely known (its documented, plus former workers will testify to this), that the miles and miles of underground tunnels of these buildings contained ample asbestos insulation. The buildings were also covered in thick layers of paint from over the years, surely containing potentially toxic lead.
I have read (and heard from current workers at the new mental hospital), that no asbestos removal companies were seen on the premise...ever. Residents have pictures of the current demo...dust and debris is spreading everywhere. I believe that neighbouring children, adults, patients, workers, pets, and basically the whole town (pending on wind currents) is at serious long-term health risk. This asbestos and lead dust shall spread though air, water, and land.
I beg all members of council to halt the demo, until asbestos companies can survey the grounds, and install appropriate cleanup procedures.
Historically, the loss of these buildings removes Whitby's connection to the WW1 war effort, as many returning soldiers resided in the hospital, leaving their legacy with the building of the 'Recreational Hall Building.' Preservation and/or refurbishing efforts should have been initiated years ago. I find it shameful that our town would destroy many proud heritage buildings, whereas other towns would boast such a historical connection, creating tourist locations, monuments, museums, etc.
I also find this situation very hypocritical, as one of the reasons these buildings were not preserved was due to the potentially toxic chemicals inside of them, yet why is it acceptable to demolish them in such fashion, thus releasing the aforementioned chemicals? I gather when money and profits is at stake, action is quicker to speed up a tax-generating housing development, rather than a historical preservation effort.
I wish to ask council for a copy of the paperwork that states if/if not the demo included proper/licenced asbestos removal. I also would like a copy of any paperwork that states where the garbage/rubble generated will be located.
Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Signed
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 4 on 8/3/2005 12:59 PM >
| | | | Well done IndianaTeach! Keep us up to date on what was said. You may want to follow up with a copy of this letter to the Ontario Ministry of the Environment as well. Something like this may potentially result in criminal charges. As I mentioned, shutterbug and I were out there and the dust was pretty damned wicked. Fortunately we were upwind of the dust and when we arrived, we noticed the workers were changing an air filter for their large front loader. The old filter looked pretty filthy from where we were standing.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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kowalski
 
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 5 on 8/3/2005 9:22 PM >
| | | | One of our worst environmental disasters? On the order of uranium mining and tire fires and asbestos mining and the James Bay hydro projects in Quebec and the current oil sands mining in Alberta? Worse than tailing ponds in Sudbury and toxic blobs in Hamilton Harbour? Worse than the pollution spilled into our air for decades by Nanticoke and Lakeview? Worse than a thousand premature deaths per year caused by smog? Worse than the destruction of the old Carolinian forest ecosystem of Southern Ontario or the taming of the wild prairies?
Obviously the demolition here is not being conducted in the best way possible. It may even be found to have violated laws and regulations. Certainly the failure to conduct abatement work prior to demolition is highly suspect and not something you usually see. As the Wraiths will tell you, when the buildings at Woodlands Psych in Vancouver were being taken down there was extensive abatement done before the structure was removed.
However, abatement would not have prevented the formation of noxious dust clouds here. That's a product of geography and meteorology, and I'm a bit hesitant to care that much about the complaints of suburban homeowners who probably lobbied in previous years for the thing to be demolished as soon as possible. The scale of their exposure to detrimental substances is also going to be fairly minor and not worthy of your declarations of disaster. If you want to look for a health disaster, I'm sure the past decade or so of Whitby youth have a greater asbestos and lead exposure from bratting around the site in the years it was just sitting there than adjacent homeowners are receiving now that they are knocking it down.
Your dedication to the site is admirable, but your tactics and analysis of the situation are unfortunately pretty juvenile and unimpressive.
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Raider
Not Gay
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
<Intelligent>
| |  |  | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 6 on 8/3/2005 9:39 PM >
| | | | Fuckin people can't make up there minds. First they bitch and complain about the buildings being there and that they should be torn down. Now they are complaining about the demolition.. right.
[13:54:15] <Agent_Skelly> Well, a friend of mine I had "benifits" with last fall was 420 lbs
[13:54:51] <Raider> Wow.... that is large.... now she doesn't crush you or anything? Not to be rude but seriously I'd suffocate
4:15:42] <bobtheallmighty> in my experiance there are very few things that are irregular when it comes to sex >_> |
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Rust
 
I am a rustbucket
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 7 on 8/3/2005 10:24 PM >
| | | | They have taken absolutely no measures to remove or abate the asbestos.
I'm fucking sickened by this.
How can they get away with this shit ? Isn't there some agency they can be reported to?
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 8 on 8/3/2005 10:28 PM >
| | | | I remember when the Fittings plant was torn down in 1990 there was a lot of concern about contamination. The building was chock full of asbestos, lead, PCB's and a lot of other lovely toxins. Prior to the demolition, there was a crew sent in (wearing their hazmat suits) to remove the asbestos and the rest of the lovely toxic soup in that building which took a couple of months. Also, when the building was torn down (and it was huge) there was no where near the same amount of dust thrown up during its demolition that there is being thrown up by the demolition happening at Whitby Psych now. They used the same equipment then, the building was noted for a lot of dust and it was located right by a residential neighbourhood.
IndianaTeach is on the mark about the health hazards being caused by this demolition. Even if there was no asbestos and lead, that dust can result in asthmatic attacks and other respiratory problems. On a demolition of that scale, there should be some kind of dust control as well as decontamination being done prior to the actual demolition in progress and any professional demolition contractor would consider that to be second nature.
[last edit 8/3/2005 11:01 PM by rainman8889 - edited 2 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 9 on 8/3/2005 10:31 PM >
| | | | Posted by Rustblade
They have taken absolutely no measures to remove or abate the asbestos.
I'm fucking sickened by this.
How can they get away with this shit ? Isn't there some agency they can be reported to?
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Same here Rustblade!
They can be reported to the Ministry of the Environment and possible the Labour Board. Of course, there will be a fine and most likely the owner or the demolition company will have deep pockets so this will be considered The cost of doing business.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Agent Skelly
 
Web Sheriff
Location: Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| |  | | | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 10 on 8/3/2005 11:14 PM >
| | | | I wouldn't go far as saying this is the worst enviromental distaster for Canada, but it certainly would go on the list.
Though if I may brag about the USA, its no Love Canal 
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IndianaTeach
Im lovin' those knobs!
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 11 on 8/3/2005 11:20 PM >
| | | | Hey guys,
I sent a letter to the MOE as well as Whitby Council...so Ill follow up and let you guys know if they comment in regards to it.
As for the more critical comments stated in regards to my letter. First, I believe that local people are the ones needed to overstress thier immediate/local problems as they are the ones usually suffering more negatively. They also are more aware usually too. (Whistle blowers)
All those environmental disasters stated are horrible indeed, and it wasnt my intent to classify this above them on a scale of catastrophe (I suppose some people search for semantic errors in order to put in their 2 cents...) The point being..., after living over 20 years in Whitby, I never EVER read or heard about a worse historical/environmental combo as this one. Especially since it WAS known that their was/is ample asbestos there.
As for the comment in regards to people being exposed to just as much asbestos when touring the tunnels...this is not the case at all. Anybody whose studied chemistry/asbestos know that when the insulation is not disturbed, its safe. Only after being broken into small tiny pieces does it become the dangerous, inhalable chemical. Hmm....and thats whats being done NOW....they are breaking up the tunnels, pipes, and insulation.
Again...because I truly care about this issue of loss and danger, it is very important to me. I dont mean to downplay other environmental disasters. I just feel obligated to spread my voice and opinions given my locality, my connection to its past, and my knowledge of it posing dangers to people.
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Duke
Noble Donor
Location: Awww-shitby, Ontario
Gender: Male
Move it or lose it
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 12 on 8/4/2005 4:57 AM >
| | | | Didn't you guys see Session 9? You call in a hazardous materials disposal company and you're just askin for trouble
Contrary to popular belief, death isn't just for dead people. I know I was surprised too! It can happen to anybody! Horses, fiddler crabs, even a potato can die! - Tick
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Boffo
Moderator
Location: Smithers, BC
Gender: Male
HONK! HONK!
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 13 on 8/4/2005 6:04 AM >
| | | | Sounds like the Whitby council just wants the psych knocked down and doesn't really care about the people it will involve - health concerns, hell to that!
And I bet they never thought that with the psych gone that local plaza of fast food is gonna lose some business from the urban explorers passing through >_> <_< >_>
Here's a lockpick. It might be handy if you, the master of unlocking, take it with you. |
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Agent Skelly
Web Sheriff
Location: Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| | | | | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 14 on 8/4/2005 6:23 AM >
| | | | Posted by Boffo
Sounds like the Whitby council just wants the psych knocked down and doesn't really care about the people it will involve - health concerns, hell to that!
And I bet they never thought that with the psych gone that local plaza of fast food is gonna lose some business from the urban explorers passing through >_> <_< >_>
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Reminds me of a joke in chat:
"Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember from such urban exploration documentries such as "Mommy, why do the yuppies want to demolish Whitby Psych?"
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Jupiter
Moderator
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
Boffo's alright... for now.
| | | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 15 on 8/4/2005 6:54 AM >
| | | | Posted by Boffo
Sounds like the Whitby council just wants the psych knocked down and doesn't really care about the people it will involve - health concerns, hell to that!
And I bet they never thought that with the psych gone that local plaza of fast food is gonna lose some business from the urban explorers passing through >_> <_< >_>
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I've stopped at that McDonald's twice and the Wendy's/NY Fries/Tim Hortons 4 times. No longer do I have a reason to visit their establishments... hell, no more reason to visit Whitby at all. They're killing their tourism!
Abandoned Planet |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 16 on 8/4/2005 2:01 PM >
| | | | Posted by kowalskiWorse than the pollution spilled into our air for decades by Nanticoke and Lakeview?
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Very valid points indeed. However, to go off topic a bit, some of that pollution from coal fired plants is a necessary evil. Nobody wants to know about the thousands of tonnes of toxic pollution spewed out every year by the various coal fired plants in Ontario, however the bottom line is that we NEED them. The Independant Electrical Operator in Ontario has said that without the Nanticoke TGS, there would have been rotating blackouts in Ontario because of all the heat recently. Sure, people bitch about keeping them with all the pollution, but what do you think they'll say when their lights go out, which also means no A/C during extreme heat periods?
Back on topic, somebody needs to step in and stop the demo at WPH. Now. As much as I hate to see these buildings torn down, it's my belief that if they ARE going to proceed, there needs to be some serious environmental assesments done, up to, and probably including, a public inquiry into what they can do to prevent all these dust clouds which we are seeing.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Conundrum
Criticón
Location: GTA
Gender: Male
Now Entering The Bling Chamber
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 17 on 8/4/2005 2:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
What they can do to prevent all these dust clouds which we are seeing.
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Well one thing they should be doing is continuiously spraying a mist of water on the buildings they are demoing to capture the dust particles. on top of that, they don't seam to be too bright, if they are tearing down these buildings and letting asbestos dust flow in to surrounding populated areas...
Conundrum
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. Carpe Noctem
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kowalski
| | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 18 on 8/4/2005 3:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
Very valid points indeed. However, to go off topic a bit, some of that pollution from coal fired plants is a necessary evil. Nobody wants to know about the thousands of tonnes of toxic pollution spewed out every year by the various coal fired plants in Ontario, however the bottom line is that we NEED them. The Independant Electrical Operator in Ontario has said that without the Nanticoke TGS, there would have been rotating blackouts in Ontario because of all the heat recently. Sure, people bitch about keeping them with all the pollution, but what do you think they'll say when their lights go out, which also means no A/C during extreme heat periods?
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"Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You may remember me from such scene-killing public service announcements as 'I Really Doubt They're Going To Be Able To Close Lakeview' and 'Okay, So They Did, But There's No Way In Heaven That Nanticoke Is Going To Close On-Time.' "
[last edit 8/5/2005 10:23 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]
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Jesus Jones
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: back in Belleville
Gender: Male
1973-2005
| | | Re: Whitby Psych demo causing dust storm
<Reply # 19 on 8/4/2005 5:02 PM >
|  | | | Im wondering why the MoE hasnt stepped in on the WPH demo yet. They wont let Sinclair demolish the Bakelite in Belleville with implosion because the shock of the blast would likely rupture underground barrels, they wont let him knock it down with loaders and excavators either because of the asbestos and lead.
[11:23:20] * nightbird looks at jj's crotch in amazement
[19:48:06] <Freak> YOUR TOAD A SPLODE
[22:04:21] <keti> in fact, im rather robotic Virginity does not collect intrest. -Andrea [15:44:19] <Kellogs> i'm part of a complete breakfast you know =P wait...that sounds so wrong |
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