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2024-05-12 03:55:55
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 Wabasso
   
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I am hereby authorizing you
 |  |  |  | Popping Manholes
< on 4/20/2005 12:41 AM >
|  | | | This thread is for the discussion of removing heavy steel lids that typically cover sewage and drainage systems, despite the looming homosexual innuendo in the subject line.
So let's say there's a drain I really want to get into and the only way is to lift a lid. One would want to do this at night, and the particular hole I had in mind is in the middle of a park. The problem is, people can be found in parks at all hours, especially dog walkers. I'd be very concerned of someone accidentally falling in.
One idea is to put up some kind of barrier or pylons, you could even make it look like it was actually being worked on. The problem then becomes impersonation. I'd rather have a cop catch me opening up a manhole than have them catch me pretending to be a sanitary worker.
I'm torn between the two extremes: Leave the manhole open unguarded, or pretend it's being worked on. Any ideas?
Apologies if a thread on this has already been posted.
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tnarduzzi
Location: Nevernever, LD, Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 1 on 4/20/2005 12:50 AM >
| | | | My best suggestion would be to leave a construction cone on top of the manhole cover, then to slide cover as closed as possible without fear of trapping yourself in.
Or if you had a car nearby or something, you could always cover the entire thing with a 4' x 4' sheet of plywood with a cone on in the middle. Just get 3/4", construction grade ply and no one should fall through, it's as strong as your subfloor.
have seen manholes in parks covered like this in Toronto. It seems they do this until new lids can be ordered when they go missing, it doesnt sound like it but belive me they do. 
--Travis
[last edit 4/20/2005 12:50 AM by tnarduzzi - edited 2 times]
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ofberenonehand
 
Location: Minn-e-snow-ta
"Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve."
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 2 on 4/20/2005 12:50 AM >
| | | | Most people close it behind them. Most can be lifted from below. I know one local explorer made a replacement out of wood for a particularly heavy one. He just used that to cover the hole while he was inside.
"That's What Government Is For; To Get In A Man's Way" -Mal |
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kowalski
 
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 3 on 4/20/2005 12:53 AM >
|  | | | If you're strong enough to pop a manhole cover from above ground, you're strong enough to pop it from below, given that it will have already been lifted and thus be much more mobile than one that's been sitting unopened for years. Just get your shoulders under it, your legs well placed on stepirons high enough to give you some knee press, and push your entire body upwards. Tada.
Do not leave an open manhole unattended, ever. Please.
[last edit 4/20/2005 12:55 AM by kowalski - edited 1 times]
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Chronic
Very Noble Donor
Location: Kitchener, ON
Gender: Male
Architecture has only two enemies. Water and stupid men.
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 4 on 4/20/2005 12:57 AM >
| | | | I put in sewers with a local contractor years ago for a summer job. There are 10gauge steel pans that are available from the dealers that sell the castings.
These have a lip around the edge and fit into the manhole top. Both in round and square for catch basins.
Try Marks & Co. or Emco.
01:14:16] <Chronic> Conrad...ya gotta go....
[01:14:30] <nightbird> yes Mr. Black, life is funnier than a pocket full of stocks! And...Tim has legal friends in Chicago...we'll get thru this!!! |
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Turbo
Location: Durham Region
Gender: Male
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 5 on 4/20/2005 1:02 AM >
| | | | The best thing to do would be make the lid so it is almost closed just enough to get some leverage to slide it out of the way when you want out.. I know for a fact (being a plumber) I have a hard time lifting a lid above my head.. Just to be safe I think that's what you should do.. Use a pylon to block it off if you are worried about someone falling in..
Dan
Have you felt her breath on the back of your neck.. I have... |
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Gatsby
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Like all UER people, I've only explored your mom.
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 6 on 4/20/2005 1:32 AM >
| | | | Just a friendly reminder relating to opening a lid from beneath:
Make sure the rung(s) that you're standing on are in trustworthy condition before putting extreme pressure on them, especially when the shaft is 40' deep!
-Gatsby
I only listen to 104.7 Poop. I'm always in deep shit, so I may as well listen to poop. |
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ofberenonehand
Location: Minn-e-snow-ta
"Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve."
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 7 on 4/20/2005 1:53 AM >
| | | | Posted by Turbo
The best thing to do would be make the lid so it is almost closed just enough to get some leverage to slide it out of the way when you want out.. I know for a fact (being a plumber) I have a hard time lifting a lid above my head.. Just to be safe I think that's what you should do.. Use a pylon to block it off if you are worried about someone falling in..
Dan
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Yeah, if they are not fitted properly they spin when stepped on. Almost worse than no manhole cover at all.
And Gatsby's advice is good, though in my experience it's the lower rungs that rot first. Either way, lifting manholes on a weak rung is scary as shit!
"That's What Government Is For; To Get In A Man's Way" -Mal |
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 8 on 4/20/2005 2:18 AM >
| | | | Yeah, definitely something solid should be over the hole, or it should be very well blocked off with some sort of obvious barricades. Theres no reason to get you and the city sued for somebody falling down the shaft you left open. Assuming there are rungs, you should be able to pop it from below just fine, if there aren't, you might want to improvise some kind of a lighter but still solid manhole to cover the shaft. If you are exceptionally lucky, as I have been once so far, you will find a elevated manhole, that would be impossible to fall down (3-4' high) and you can ditch the cover wherever, but then you will probably need another person to help lift the cover back on, or a good chiropractor.
BTW, speaking of temporary covers, I don't suppose anybody has the dimensions of a typical St. Paul manhole on hand..? It's a long walk to the street and all...
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Turbo
Location: Durham Region
Gender: Male
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 9 on 4/20/2005 3:00 AM >
| | | | A typical manhole by Ontario codes (not sure if it's the same) is 24" in diameter..
Dan
[last edit 4/20/2005 3:00 AM by Turbo - edited 1 times]
Have you felt her breath on the back of your neck.. I have... |
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OttoL
Location: Pacific Northwest
Gender: Male
Renob
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 10 on 4/20/2005 3:11 AM >
| | | | Posted by Turbo
The best thing to do would be make the lid so it is almost closed just enough to get some leverage to slide it out of the way when you want out.. I know for a fact (being a plumber) I have a hard time lifting a lid above my head.. Just to be safe I think that's what you should do.. Use a pylon to block it off if you are worried about someone falling in..
Dan
|
I am gonna agree with you here, I was a plumber for ten years and have popped many a many manhole covers. Most weigh around 150 pounds, and I have to use a special hook or a pickaxe to get them up. I could not imagine trying to pop one up from below, since the main way that I got them open was with leverage from my hook...
What would happen if a car parked on the manhole cover after you went in? You would be screwed. I used to use plywood to cover up trenches with some orange cones to keep people from falling in, and yes they have in the past (even a four inch deep hole can get you a lawsuit. I would use the plywood and cone way since you will be safely be able to get out.
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ofberenonehand
Location: Minn-e-snow-ta
"Where now is Boromir the Fair? He tarries and I grieve."
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 11 on 4/20/2005 3:12 AM >
| | | | They look to be 23 12/" to 24," though I measure a storm drain cover at 18."
You're welcome.
"That's What Government Is For; To Get In A Man's Way" -Mal |
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Forthright with the deciduous
Location: Hamilton
Gender: Male
The leaves will fall... down, because of gravity
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 12 on 4/20/2005 3:24 AM >
| | | | To join the consensus, close the manhole and open it again from below as you exit. They are heavy, but Kowalski can attest to me being of rather slight build, but I can move them from below if I have to.
Leaving it open is inviting some poor person to break their leg/neck/brain/arm.
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kowalski
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 13 on 4/20/2005 3:25 AM >
| | | | Posted by OttoL
I was a plumber for ten years and have popped many a many manhole covers. Most weigh around 150 pounds, and I have to use a special hook or a pickaxe to get them up. I could not imagine trying to pop one up from below, since the main way that I got them open was with leverage from my hook... |
The trick is that you don't try to arm press them. You need to use your whole body and the well of strength in your legs, and the easiest way to do this is to use your upper back as the central force point between you and the cover. You use your hands to stabilize it as it comes up, but it's your leg press that boots its inertia and pushes it up off the collar.
| What would happen if a car parked on the manhole cover after you went in? You would be screwed. |
Well, the guy here is talking about a manhole in a park, so that's not an issue. Street jumps are sketchy, but generally you've got more than one option for egress. Regardless, your larger worry coming out onto a street is not that a car is going to be parked on top of your cover, but that it's going to be moving across your cover as you come out.
My stance remains: If you can't pop a manhole cover from underneath that you just opened from above an hour ago, you shouldn't be going in a drain with no accessible inlet/outfall or you should be bringing someone along who can pop that cover again. This is common sense, and a basic part of safe draining. Don't leave open manholes unattended.
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Kakesu
Location: England. Fun!
Gender: Male
printf("shiver in eternal darkness/n");
| |  | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 14 on 4/20/2005 3:25 AM >
| | | | On a related note, how are you people opening manholes in the first place? I've just spent an evening failing to open them with screwdrivers and things, which makes a lot of sense now that I know they weigh in at 150 pounds. Are you really carrying crowbars around with you?
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kowalski
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 15 on 4/20/2005 4:00 AM >
| | | | The best tools I've seen (and I have one in my possession) use a bolt tied with some sort of resilient cable (paracord, aircraft cable, etc.). You stick the bolt through one of the holes in the cover so that each end catches the cover, and you pull. Incredibly simple. With paracord you don't need a handle, with aircraft cable you do but it's oh so sweet.
Props to the member of UEA who made me such a device. It's way easier to carry around than a pickaxe : )
On a side note: There is a publicly subscribeable draining private forum for those interested.
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 16 on 4/20/2005 4:18 AM >
| | | | Not every manhole has nice holes to fit a device like kowalski has though. Yeah, you need a crowbar for them, at least thats the easiest way. I've gotten a manhole up with a screwdriver and a pocket sized crowbar before, and I've heard of people around here using pliers to pop some manholes with a groove they can fit in (I believe MacGyver has a diagram). Be careful with your fingers, I'd wear gloves to make sure you dont drop the cover, and take off some loose skin in the process.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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Wabasso
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I am hereby authorizing you
| | | | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 17 on 4/20/2005 4:24 AM >
| | | | Wow thanks for all the help and advise.
I like the idea of keeping the manhole open just enough so your fingers can get through to push it aside. It's true that if it's too open, it'll spin. But there's also a point where enough of the circumference rests on the hole so that it'll be stable enough to walk over.
The holes I'm thinking of aren't really in a high traffic area, and in general people don't go out of their way to walk over random grates/lids in the ground (only we do that, to see if, hey, maybe they're open). The main concern is some dog falling into one while it's sniffing around / marking territory.
The plywood also works, but I'd forget about the traffic cone since it attracts a lot of attention.
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OttoL
Location: Pacific Northwest
Gender: Male
Renob
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 18 on 4/20/2005 5:42 AM >
| | | | Posted by kowalski
The trick is that you don't try to arm press them. You need to use your whole body and the well of strength in your legs, and the easiest way to do this is to use your upper back as the central force point between you and the cover. You use your hands to stabilize it as it comes up, but it's your leg press that boots its inertia and pushes it up off the collar.
Well, the guy here is talking about a manhole in a park, so that's not an issue. Street jumps are sketchy, but generally you've got more than one option for egress. Regardless, your larger worry coming out onto a street is not that a car is going to be parked on top of your cover, but that it's going to be moving across your cover as you come out.
My stance remains: If you can't pop a manhole cover from underneath that you just opened from above an hour ago, you shouldn't be going in a drain with no accessible inlet/outfall or you should be bringing someone along who can pop that cover again. This is common sense, and a basic part of safe draining. Don't leave open manholes unattended.
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I guess that makes sense... I am not much of a drainer. I guess it has to do with that it's part of the trade I work in. i see it every day. Not too exciting for me.
You are right about the car thing, I did not read all of his post too carefully... My fault.
If I use your technique, maybe I coould at least get the manhole popped, and move it back. I was just referring to how heavy they are, and how much trouble I have with them from the surface... I just never wanted to push one up from below..
As far as the other poster that only wanted to use a screwdriver to pop them.... Good luck. They are heavy, dont get you finger jammed...Ihave jammed my finger twice on storm grids, and they weigh only 75#'s, so.....
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Elshar
Location: MN/NY
Gender: Male
| | Re: Popping Manholes
<Reply # 19 on 4/20/2005 7:07 AM >
| | | | I'm really not a fan of popping covers from below. Even ones I popped from above can be hard to deal with from below, and some covers in the area have taken more than one person to get off. Has anyone tried to make an adjustable false cover? Maybe with an adjustable frame underneath with several different size top pieces?
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