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 Corallis
 
 |  | Light For Night Exploration
< on 3/31/2005 10:22 PM >
|  | | | There are at least two major problems with using flashlights during night time exploration. First, there is the issue of being seen. A bright light in the middle of the night is very obvious and easily detected with minimal effort. This leaves you with two choices - turn off the light and possibly have trouble seeing, or use the light and risk being caught. The second major issue is the one involving human's natural night vision. It takes your eyes a good half hour to completely adjust to seeing in the dark, and that natural night vision can be ruined in just a few seconds by a bright light. What I am getting at is that normal flashlight use during night exploration is sometimes a problem.
To help solve these issues, I am thinking about purchasing a medium sized, red LED flashlight from Gerber. A link can be found here:
http://www.gerbertools.com/Gerber-Infinity-Ultra-Task-Light-Black-body-Red-LED-0013.htm
Before I purchase this light though, I was wondering if anyone here has any insight as to whether or not it will prove to be useful. Does anyone here ever use a red-filtered flashlight of any sort during night explorations? Or does anyone have any experience specifically with this Gerber one? Basically, I'd just like to hear people's opinions on these types of lights for night exploration.
Lock Pick Reviews |
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Andy "Not Dice" Dice
 
Location: We can live in dumpsters if we have to, MA
Gender: Male
UE'ing is for pussies, bro.
| |  |  | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 1 on 3/31/2005 10:40 PM >
| | | | I MADE a red filter that snaps onto my flashlight that also uses a dimmer in the form of a piece cut out of a metal screen. Long story short, it makes my light dim and red, which obviously doesn't allow you to see as much, but I feel better shining it around inside of a building with windows or even for outdoor use than I do about using a bright white light. I can unsnap the filter from it if I need to look at something carefully and up close, so it's pretty convenient.
As for effectiveness, I've never watched myself walk into a building from outside, using my nifty red flashlight, so I don't know how much it cuts down on visibility from afar, but it sure as hell makes me FEEL safer while I'm using it 
However it seems to me that any kind of light at night time (especially with a new moon) is conspicuous, but red is supposed to be lower wavelength and thus less obvious to the casual observer. Also, it won't kill your night vision AS MUCH, but once again, any amount of light is gonna hurt your night vision for a bit.
Anywho! I'm happy with my home made filter, and I can't think of any reason for investing money in a second flashlight that was built to shine red.
But, if I remember correctly from physics class, there is a difference between light that is filtered red and light that is produced by a chemical that burns red - although I'm not sure that that difference is important to this discussion, nor am I sure that those LED's even use a chemical that burns red as opposed to a filter (I'd put money on the latter though).
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cavemonkey
Location: berthoud,Colorado
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 2 on 4/1/2005 4:57 AM >
| | | | blue filters are better for not being seen at night, its what is used on military headlights so they cant be seen from a distance. ive played around with it a little and this seems to be right I bought one of those cheap elbow flashlights at the local military surplus store and used the dark blue lens out of it to get the correct shade. It took a little modification but it works pretty good. ive used it for paintball and never have had it seen by the enemy players. The blue is much harder to see than the red at night and it still allows you night vision. it gives enough light too. play around with it and see what works best for you.
[last edit 4/1/2005 5:01 AM by cavemonkey - edited 2 times]
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sympathy in chaos
Location: Chicago
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 3 on 4/1/2005 9:26 AM >
| | | | Posted by cavemonkey
blue filters are better for not being seen at night, its what is used on military headlights so they cant be seen from a distance. ive played around with it a little and this seems to be right I bought one of those cheap elbow flashlights at the local military surplus store and used the dark blue lens out of it to get the correct shade. It took a little modification but it works pretty good. ive used it for paintball and never have had it seen by the enemy players. The blue is much harder to see than the red at night and it still allows you night vision. it gives enough light too. play around with it and see what works best for you.
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moonlight is blue.
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Dages
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Midwestern US
Gender: Male
| | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 4 on 4/1/2005 7:07 PM >
| | | | I didn't have any translucent red plastic so i made my own red filter. here's the tutorial.
DIY red flashlight filter:
supplies:
red sharpie marker
flashlight
1. remove cap from flashlight
2. color inside of plastic cover with sharpie marker
3. replace cover
I'm sure that didnt need an explanation, but I've got an excess of time on my hands. Works like a charm.
cheers
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Jester
Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada
Gender: Male
Always just out of sight...
| | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 5 on 4/1/2005 9:37 PM >
|  | | | Red and (some green to a lesser degree) is what is used typically by avaiators and spec ops because they do not disrupt your nightvision. I use red led's about 75% of the time exploring as most places I end up have active security so anything brighter is not really an option.
It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. |
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NINE
Gender: Male
| | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 6 on 4/2/2005 4:27 AM >
| | | | Here's what I know:
1)Red light/filters are used because Red is the lowest visible band of the spectrum and is easily picked up by Rods; photo receptors in your retina which can only see in black and white, and detect movement. These Rods are not super accurate, but they get the job done. Red light isn't detected by your Cone receptors, they are responsible for accuracy and color separation. When you use Red lights it allows you to move around by allowing using your Rods while your Cones adjust to the night (that's where you get the 45 minute delay from).
Red came into high fashion during Vietnam with MACSOG and AirCav units, though the technology was around long before. Unfortunately most lights I've seen in Red are much too bright for this. That Gerber CMG is 50/50 in my mind, it's too bright for climbing through a (small) tunnel and it doesn't have much control... and it makes noise when you run with it (the light doesn't have a spring with the battery terminals, so it shakes a little).
2) Green is used because the human eye responds to this color best as far as visual accuracy. Cone receptors peek with Green light, and this is why NVG goggles use a green display: because the flat image the device produces (compared to the multi-frequency image your eyes and other senses tying in use) takes some getting used to, and accuracy is the most important principle.
3) Blue light improves contrast, and because it is the highest visible light under UV, less of it is needed to cut through darkness. This is also why a lot of retailers market blue as “map reading” lights, it's supposed to help see the contrast in topo/street lines better... it doesn't.
If you are considering a light for nightops, I would suggest that the REAL most important aspect of any light used for stealth is control, not color. Also, using filters on standard lights is wasteful as a majority of the light output is blocked by the filter. You'd just be killing your batteries for ~24% of the output while you could have just gotten a cheaper, smaller light that uses less energy.
you want:
1) momentary on/off... so that you can use your light only when needed, or shut it off as soon as possible
2)tight beam pattern... which keeps away uninvited guests
3)then consider color as your needs require
I would suggest the Inova X1 instead of the CMG, the only drawback being you cannot use Lithium batteries in it (the LED is regulated, and Lithiums push twice the voltage than standard ones; thus dead light).
[last edit 4/2/2005 7:47 AM by NINE - edited 1 times]
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Servo
| | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 7 on 4/2/2005 4:26 PM >
| | | | Posted by cavemonkey
blue filters are better for not being seen at night,
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I'm not sure about this part... more research is required. I do know green is actually the *most* visible, next to white light.
| and it still allows you night vision. |
I know this is just flat-out wrong.
The reason red preserves night vision is that the rhodopsin in the rods, the chemical that builds up when you're in a dark environment and allows your eyes to become extremely sensitive to light, is not broken down by red light. But it's only red light -- blue (and green too, Jester!) light does break it down, and therefore will destroy your night vision.
Posted by NINE
1)Red light/filters are used because Red is the lowest visible band of the spectrum and is easily picked up by Rods; photo receptors in your retina which can only see in black and white, and detect movement. These Rods are not super accurate, but they get the job done. Red light isn't detected by your Cone receptors, they are responsible for accuracy and color separation. When you use Red lights it allows you to move around by allowing using your Rods while your Cones adjust to the night (that's where you get the 45 minute delay from).
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No, totally wrong. The rods are essentially blind to red light. You *do* have cones that are sensitive to red, and when you use only red light these are what are actually "doing the job". You have far more rods than cones in your eye, and even fewer "red" cones (most cones respond to green) so red is actually really lousy for high-detail vision. It is good because it doesn't destroy night vision (as I explained above) and is harder for others to see (making it a better choice for "stealthyness").
Seems like we've done this before... there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around about this. Go look at the absorption spectrum for Rhodopsin (dashed line), this tells you what colors it absorbs, and hence what colors will and won't destroy night vision:
http://en.wikipedi...:Cone-response.png
[last edit 4/2/2005 4:48 PM by Servo - edited 6 times]
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 8 on 4/2/2005 5:09 PM >
| | | | I've been using the blue Streamlight Stylus for years. It looks like a pen and uses an LED, less than $20 at any local auto parts store. Interesting side note: it also works to some degree with flourescent dyes. I will use a $5 bottle of oil tracer dye to mark a manhole to be seen from above. But I also have a UV led light at work for that when the situation arises. The blue in my opinion is less likely to attract attention than most other colors from people observing outside a window. They provide enough light to see by and it diffuses anough that it doesn't light up a room to be seen from a window. I once had to find my way out of a sewer with one and aside from not being able to see more than 15 feet, it was enough to find my way out. And if anyone finds the one I lost in Florida, You got a free night of drinking on me.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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Random
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Gender: Male
Partially Retired
| | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 9 on 4/19/2005 5:11 AM >
| | | | My LED headlamp shines blue. I have found that this is pretty hard to seefrom even relatively short distances. It could just be that it is pretty dim, but I think the blue adds some effect.
A red light would be pretty freaky to anyone that tryed to accost you though. I might get one just for the "coolness" factor.
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Shane
Moderator
Location: Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| |  |  | | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 10 on 4/19/2005 10:18 AM >
| | | | Posted by junkyard
And if anyone finds the one I lost in Florida, You got a free night of drinking on me.
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Hah, that would require rappelling gear, a hardcore industrial diving rig(complete with a dry suit and some very powerful lights), and balls so big that you'd need a wheelbarrow to carry them.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Light For Night Exploration
<Reply # 11 on 4/21/2005 12:27 AM >
| | | | You get me the SCUBA shit and I'll bring you the light. I got the rest. Or I could just but one for $18. But the offer still stands, you want frebeer, you know what you gotta do.....
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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