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 Jedi Knife
 |  | Carrying a "Creed Card"
< on 12/29/2004 1:58 PM >
|  | | | I'm rather new to this forum, so apologies in advance if this has been covered or if this is SOP for UE in general (I haven't done this yet). I was thinking of having a card made up, like a business card or even a fancier one with photo and name on it (legitimate of course), and have a UE "creed" printed on it, basically stating that: Despite what we do, we do follow a certain code of ethics.
We do not destroy or damage the property.
We do not take anything (except for pictures, and the bumps and bruises one picks up doing this).
We don't "tag" any of the places, we feel that falls under the category of damaging the property and will have no part of it. |
(From the Wraiths homepage).
This might be a mitigating factor if you're ever caught by the police, and if you're ever prosecuted, it might could even be presented as evidence in court.
Just a thought. Once again, I'm new here, so forgive me if this is already been discussed or if it's standard operating procedure for you guys.
JK
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Scaggs
       
Gender: Male
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 1 on 12/29/2004 2:16 PM >
|  | | | I always just dress like I got off work, which is true most of the time. I work in a professional office setting, so a nice polo shirt with khakis and nice shoes usually tips people off that I'm not a vandal 
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
Location: South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 2 on 12/29/2004 5:58 PM >
| | | | You know its better if you send letters to yourself, explaining exactly what you do and your ethics. Keep them sealed when they get back to you in the mail, just for evidence in courts that you really are just exploring. If that letter is dated back before you got caught your motives can be confirmed.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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Scaggs
Gender: Male
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 3 on 12/29/2004 7:58 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mark
You know its better if you send letters to yourself, explaining exactly what you do and your ethics. Keep them sealed when they get back to you in the mail, just for evidence in courts that you really are just exploring. If that letter is dated back before you got caught your motives can be confirmed.
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And technically copyrighted.
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NV
Supreme Noble Donor
Location: City of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, Mayor
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 4 on 12/29/2004 11:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jedi Knife
...I was thinking of having a card made up, like a business card or even a fancier one with photo and name on it (legitimate of course), and have a UE "creed" printed on it... |
Hmmm, I dunno...I understand the reasoning behind it, but in the unfortunate event that you DO get caught, I'm not sure how much good such a card will do you. I can imagine police and/or security guards being not too impressed by it.
A friend of mine who does UE photography carries around a laminated copy of an article from our local paper that profiled him and some other UEr's. His thinking is that if he gets caught, he has a something that "proves" that he just takes pictures. I don't think he's ever had to use it.
I know of another instance where some friends of mine were caught in an abandonment by the police, but the fact that they were carrying fancy cameras was a cue to the police that my friends were not thieves, and the police let them go.
So, there's a couple of other ideas.
-N
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Ryden
Location: Barrie On
Gender: Male
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 5 on 12/30/2004 4:29 AM >
| | | | Probably at the level you are thinking they wouldn't be that effective. But If you do really want to pursue this you could have a legal buff find a way to make it a legitimate club, and would be your I.D. Definately no legal weight still, but probably far more impressive to a cop.
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Duke
Noble Donor
Location: Awww-shitby, Ontario
Gender: Male
Move it or lose it
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 6 on 12/30/2004 10:56 AM >
| | | | Ahhh this topic never gets old. If you do a search there's plenty of threads about ID cards and such, you may find some good ideas for your own card in them. I don't think we'll ever see a standardized card because, well, it would be a pain and not everyone would use them anyway, it's a very personal thing i suppose. but choosing to carry one may not be a bad idea as long as you can explain yourself reasonably.
Contrary to popular belief, death isn't just for dead people. I know I was surprised too! It can happen to anybody! Horses, fiddler crabs, even a potato can die! - Tick
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PyroMaster
Location: wny hamburg area
Gender: Male
best band ever
| |  |  |  |  | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 7 on 12/30/2004 5:45 PM >
|  | | | if one were to be caught and were carrying one of these cards the police might be an ass and try to use it against you, you've done it before-i just caught u doing it and you'll probably do it again, i dont care if u weren't stealing or vandalizing you were still tresspassing...get my point? i say to hell with the cards just dont get caught
wait i'm not supposed to be here?
-no
o ok fuck you then |
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Jedi Knife
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 8 on 12/30/2004 9:11 PM >
| | | | | f one were to be caught and were carrying one of these cards the police might be an ass and try to use it against you, you've done it before-i just caught u doing it and you'll probably do it again, i dont care if u weren't stealing or vandalizing you were still tresspassing...get my point? i say to hell with the cards just dont get caught |
Yeah, I get what you're saying. But IMO, it might be better to show some evidence of having no malicious intentions than just letting the police decide whether or not you are a vandal. It might be easier for some of the older explorers to reason with the police, but it seems that young people might need a little more credibility on their side; just being young and in a wierd place at a weird time might already make police more suspicious (even though ideally it shouldn't).
JK
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Burzum
Noble Donor
| | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 9 on 12/30/2004 9:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jedi Knife
Yeah, I get what you're saying. But IMO, it might be better to show some evidence of having no malicious intentions than just letting the police decide whether or not you are a vandal. It might be easier for some of the older explorers to reason with the police, but it seems that young people might need a little more credibility on their side; just being young and in a wierd place at a weird time might already make police more suspicious (even though ideally it shouldn't).
JK
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really, it's a toss up. as a young explorer, it could help you, if you bumped into a reasonable cop. however, if the cop was reasonable, you probably wouldn't have a problem in the first place, without other circumstances (i.e. vandalism, national security etc).
if you meet a jerk cop, it could make things worse, by serving as proof of previous and continuing offence. of course, if you meet a dick cop, you are probably in trouble no matter what, irregardless.
i wouldn't do it myself - but i say trust your instincts. you've already done the right thing by taking this into consideration, so just go with what feels right for you.
www.rouskrew.com
because evil won't just do itself. |
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Bizurke
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 10 on 12/31/2004 11:44 AM >
| | | | All that an ID card does is say that you do this (trespass) so often that you had to make up a special ID card just for the purpose. Wether you destroy things or have malicious intent or not doesn't matter because you are in violation of the law and obviously you do it quite often. In an officers mind they will probably think "well it's time this person learns not to do this anymore" and the punishment will be more severe. I personally have been caught a couple times and have had no problems. I simply explain that I am doing a research project on the building or the place for a website. This is not lying at all since I document almost all my explores on the internet. Usually an officer will be fine if it seems like this is a one time deal and you didn't know any better. But carrying a "trespassers club membership card" (in their mind) won't help you in the least bit.
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greywolf45
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Male
Resident UER pain in the ass
| |  | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 11 on 1/2/2005 8:20 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jedi Knife
I'm rather new to this forum, so apologies in advance if this has been covered or if this is SOP for UE in general (I haven't done this yet). I was thinking of having a card made up, like a business card or even a fancier one with photo and name on it (legitimate of course), and have a UE "creed" printed on it, basically stating that: (From the Wraiths homepage).
This might be a mitigating factor if you're ever caught by the police, and if you're ever prosecuted, it might could even be presented as evidence in court.
Just a thought. Once again, I'm new here, so forgive me if this is already been discussed or if it's standard operating procedure for you guys.
JK
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Well JK, there is an unwritten creed that goes something like this, "Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints". I believe this covers exactly what you have down here, but i do like the idea of the cards.
greywolf45
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends"
Martin Luther King Jr. |
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SoupMeister
Location: Athens, Greece
Gender: Male
| | |  | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 12 on 1/2/2005 11:06 PM >
| | | | I carry a lot of photographic gear with me, expensive, professional-looking stuff. Today I went out with a large Tamrac camera bag (for the film camera, lenses, films and flashes) plus a 28 litre backpack with a smaller Tamrac containing the digital camera and its own accessories, as well as a tripod. This is heavy stuff. A potential vandal or thief would travel lighter.
A professional-looking camera out in the open reassures people who see you approaching an abandoned building.
I also have a habit of wearing a photographer's vest. It's useful on its own, but I've found that it marks you as a pro photographer or a reporter. People don't want to bother either and will assume you're only doing your job (kind of like when you're infiltrating in a reflective vest and hard hat).
My main worry isn't cops though, it's squatters (every single building I've been in in the past few years had been occupied at some point in its recent past), scavengers, taggers and actual vandals. I have a knife with me, and hope I'll never have to even think of using it. If I'm lucky and get stopped by the police, the photo gear (and my complete co-operation) will calm them and they won't think of searching me. Or at least that's my theory/hope.
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Bizurke
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 13 on 1/3/2005 5:01 PM >
| | | | Posted by SoupMeister
I carry a lot of photographic gear with me, expensive, professional-looking stuff. Today I went out with a large Tamrac camera bag (for the film camera, lenses, films and flashes) plus a 28 litre backpack with a smaller Tamrac containing the digital camera and its own accessories, as well as a tripod. This is heavy stuff. A potential vandal or thief would travel lighter.
A professional-looking camera out in the open reassures people who see you approaching an abandoned building.
I also have a habit of wearing a photographer's vest. It's useful on its own, but I've found that it marks you as a pro photographer or a reporter. People don't want to bother either and will assume you're only doing your job (kind of like when you're infiltrating in a reflective vest and hard hat).
My main worry isn't cops though, it's squatters (every single building I've been in in the past few years had been occupied at some point in its recent past), scavengers, taggers and actual vandals. I have a knife with me, and hope I'll never have to even think of using it. If I'm lucky and get stopped by the police, the photo gear (and my complete co-operation) will calm them and they won't think of searching me. Or at least that's my theory/hope.
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I wouldn't be too worried about squatters. I have spent years homeless and squatting all over and trust me, the squatter is more scared of you than you are of them. Unless you find the rare insane homicidal type, but that's probably never going to happen. Most squatters are just people down on their luck and they could use a good conversation, so if you run into a squatter don't be quick to judge and talk to them.
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lago1
Location: the 'Go
| | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 14 on 1/3/2005 8:35 PM >
| | | | Posted by abandonedsc
I always just dress like I got off work, which is true most of the time. I work in a professional office setting, so a nice polo shirt with khakis and nice shoes usually tips people off that I'm not a vandal
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You'd be surprised by how many taggers rock nothing but polo shirts, khakis, and semi-dress shoes. Not even all that baggy, sometimes.
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NV
Supreme Noble Donor
Location: City of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, Mayor
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 15 on 1/4/2005 3:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by Bizurke
I wouldn't be too worried about squatters...the squatter is more scared of you than you are of them...Most squatters are just people down on their luck and they could use a good conversation, so if you run into a squatter don't be quick to judge and talk to them. |
That's been my experience--the few times I've encountered squatters, they usually think I'm a cop/authority figure type (which is kind of funny since I don't think I look very cop-like.) Once I assure them I'm just taking photos, they're usually happy to talk, and more often then not they know a lot about the particular building they are occupying and you are exploring.
-N
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SoupMeister
Location: Athens, Greece
Gender: Male
| | | | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 16 on 1/6/2005 9:36 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bizurke
I wouldn't be too worried about squatters. I have spent years homeless and squatting all over and trust me, the squatter is more scared of you than you are of them. Unless you find the rare insane homicidal type, but that's probably never going to happen. Most squatters are just people down on their luck and they could use a good conversation, so if you run into a squatter don't be quick to judge and talk to them.
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(Sorry, slightly off-topic now -- and long too)
That is exactly why I'm worried: I'm encroaching on someone's, well, home. Many of the buildings I've visited were small suburban holiday homes from the Fifties. And in many cases I was blocking the only escape route when climbing in through a window.
Squatters here are like squatters everywhere else. In Greece, they're almost entirely dirt-poor immigrant workers from former Eastern Bloc countries. Ever since the early 90s, these guys (some of which were dodgy people, admittedly) have been blamed for every crime. To hear some people tell it, there are apparently no Greek criminals out there, they're all Albanians. For the first couple of years, the cops took a view where being from Eastern Europe was all the evidence they needed for an arrest on some idiotic charge or other.
Understandably, these people were terrified and desperate. They also didn't speak the language, and that made them extra jittery (and removed any chance of a quick explanation -- 'I'm only shooting photos').
If I were in a state like that, living in an abandoned little house in the woods, and someone dressed all in black barged in at night, I don't know what I'd do.
So I like to give them a wide berth. And protect myself (my knife is always hidden away though). Most of the immigrants are now legal, with homes, jobs and families. These days I'm just being cautious out of habit.
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NV
Supreme Noble Donor
Location: City of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, Mayor
| | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 17 on 1/7/2005 12:11 AM >
| | | | Posted by SoupMeister
(Sorry, slightly off-topic now...) |
To get us back on topic (since I sort of helped lead the thread off a bit...)
Often when I explore, if it's relevant I'll carry some sort of architectural-historical literature, like the AIA Guide to Chicago Architecture. A friend of mine carries pamphlets put out by a Indiana-based historic preservation group whenever he explores in Gary. If you get stopped, having something like this lends credibility to your "I'm just taking photos of interesting buildings" stance.
Obviously this wouldn't work in some situations, like if you were in steam tunnel or drain.
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greywolf45
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Male
Resident UER pain in the ass
| | | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 18 on 1/7/2005 7:48 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jedi Knife
I'm rather new to this forum, so apologies in advance if this has been covered or if this is SOP for UE in general (I haven't done this yet). I was thinking of having a card made up, like a business card or even a fancier one with photo and name on it (legitimate of course), and have a UE "creed" printed on it, basically stating that: (From the Wraiths homepage).
This might be a mitigating factor if you're ever caught by the police, and if you're ever prosecuted, it might could even be presented as evidence in court.
Just a thought. Once again, I'm new here, so forgive me if this is already been discussed or if it's standard operating procedure for you guys.
JK
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Your comments are welcome here, and as far as i know, this is the first time this has been covered JK.
"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends"
Martin Luther King Jr. |
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SoupMeister
Location: Athens, Greece
Gender: Male
| | | | | Re: Carrying a "Creed Card"
<Reply # 19 on 1/8/2005 9:26 AM >
| | | | Posted by NV
Often when I explore, if it's relevant I'll carry some sort of architectural-historical literature [...]
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Hmm. That would work a lot better than a creed card, especially with a well-thumbed book with notes in it (lots of post-its, perhaps?). I'm concerned about the bulk and weight of architectural books though. Many of them are extremely unsuited to field work.
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