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 ngamer007
    
Location: Upstate NY
Gender: Male
Time for some thrilling heroics.
 |  | Is this a good respirator?
< on 10/13/2004 4:23 AM >
|  | | | You guys always talk about P100 Purple tanks and such, but I don't see any of that, yet it says it filters out asbestos and lots of other stuff, so is this a good bet? Will it filter out mold? Will I be able to hook on those P100 tanks?
http://cgi.ebay.co...em=4330134748&rd=1
Oh, and by the way, is there anything wrong with using GMRS radios? I have Uniden FMS/GMRS radios, and I always use GMRS channels because they work at much further distances.
[last edit 10/13/2004 4:30 AM by ngamer007 - edited 2 times]
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PAWolf
  
Not from Pennsylvania
Location: KCMO
Gender: Male
We haven't located us yet.
| |  |  |  | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 1 on 10/13/2004 4:37 AM >
| | | | The 100 rating in "P100" just means that NIOSH has proven the mask to filter the finest particulates that they test for. The P means that the mask is made from oil proof rubber or latex.
As far as that particular mask I don't know what to tell you. It's important that the mask fit really well on your face or else it's useless, so if this generic one doesn't fit you well it'll be a bigger pain to return it. I'd recomend just getting AO safety or 3M one at a hardware or paint store for about $35. It's a little pricey but I for one don't like to take chances with my health. Also you have to think about how hard it will be to find replacement cartridges, that one doesnt even have a brand name.
[last edit 10/13/2004 4:37 AM by PAWolf - edited 1 times]
Make Beer, Not War. |
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Servo
| | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 2 on 10/13/2004 5:27 AM >
| | | | What PAWolf said. Home Depot and similar stores have masks for $25 that I *know* are P100 rated. They also sell replacement filters that fit, whereas who knows if you can find filters for that one.
Do you really want to cheap out on safety equipment?
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | |  | | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 3 on 10/13/2004 5:47 AM >
| | | | Use at your own risk, erm, death. Go cheap and go out fast I like to say. Follow some of the advice listed above.
BPM
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 4 on 10/15/2004 7:26 AM >
| | | | Based on my confined space certification;
The respirator itself must fit you and be comfortable. If it is not comfortable you will not be willing or able to wear it.
The abilty to deal with different types of particles will depend on the cartridge you use with it.
Several things that can sometimes be more important than a mask, limitng your exposure to a site and reducing dust can go a long way.
Also keep in mind that bad gasses are not as a common but much more serious risk. And there are no respirators that will reliably protect you. That is why rescue crews always wear self containd air supplies.
The really nasty stuff are things like oxygen deffinciency, H2S, and the like. And no respirator will protect your from that.
But in most abandonments the reason for wearing a respriator is to prevent getting unpleasant crap in your mouth and in your nose. Not to save your life.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | | | | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 5 on 10/15/2004 2:56 PM >
| | | | There are respirators out there that filter H2S. You just have to be willing to invest the money into them. When it comes to gases, the most common killer if lack of oxygen. Always make sure you have the best (if you can afford it) for the situation that you are. Skimp on the price and risk your life...
BPM
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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Giblet
Location: Atlanta
Gender: Male
| | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 6 on 10/19/2004 3:08 PM >
| | | | I searched for a comprehensive guide to personal particulate filter use and had no real luck... I have a .mil guide sitting around somewhere. I'll scan/post if I can find the stupid thing. It's a fairly thorough guide to using particulate/bio filters in a hazardous environment - how-to and how to safely remove the things once you're in the clear.
If you're sneaking around areas that rate a P100, it would be a serious mistake to just take it off when you get outside without first rinsing yourself with 'clean' water. You're still covered with whatever you were trying to block from your lungs.
I found (and reported to the EPA) a ruptured canister of sodium cyanide AR in a factory in Cincy. The stuff was all over the floor! I was never happier that I had a mask -- not that it provided complete protection by any stretch of the imagination -- but it almost certainly made it possible to be sitting here typing this. I went outside and found a big puddle and rolled in it before pulling my mask off, went home and showered very very well and made a phone call. I went back a week later and it was all 'cleaned up', but the area was taped off and there was a new fence under construction around the site.
Anyone that thinks a mask is overkill will eventually reinforce Darwin's whimsical notions. And, that's OK. The supply of idiots is inexhaustible.
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Greysand
Noble Donor
Location: USA - California
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 7 on 10/29/2004 9:57 PM >
|  | | | This is a copy of some of my safety info from my old UE site. Warning: Long post.
Gas Safety
There are many dangers associated with exploring underground areas such as drains, caves, or mines. Just some of the more promonent dangers include falling, death from above, and getting lost. But one of the prime dangers is bad air. This can be as simple (and deadly) as a lack of oxygen, or it can refer to the presence of gases. (also called "damp" - from the German word "dampf", "which is a very commonly used word for anything from vapor, fog, steam to stench, stink, perspiration and sorts." [thanks to Peo for the correction]) There are five types of damp.
Black Damp -
Combination of Carbon Dioxide, Nitrogen and low amounts of Oxygen.
Prolonged exposure to Black Damp will cause suffocation and eventually death. This gas can be detected by a Davy safety lamp. If this gas is present, the flame will be extinguished. Before the invention of the Davy safety lamp miners would bring canaries into the mine to try and detect this gas.
Fire Damp -
Occurs when an atmosphere is comprised of between 1% and 14% methane.
This gas is highly explosive. It has no taste, color, or odor. It is formed by decaying carbon based material in an anoxic (an absence of oxygen) environment. The Davy safety lamp can be used to detect Fire Damp as well. If Fire damp is present, the flame will grow indicating the presence of methane gas while preventing explosion. An explosion of Fire Damp will generate After Damp.
After Damp -
A gas that is formed from the by-products of a fire or explosion (usually caused by Fire Damp).
It is extremely fatal. One good inhalation of this gas can result in imminent death. (do not pass GO, do not collect mad draining props) In essence, this gas is an extreme version of Black Damp. After Damp consists of carbon dioxide and nitrogen only, since all of the oxygen has been consumed by the fire. Anyone who thinks that they can make a drain safe to explore by dropping a lit match down a manhole and burning off the methane or hydrogen sulfide, should think again.
White Damp -
Consists mainly of carbon monoxide.
Carbon monoxide, like methane, has no color, taste, or odor. It can be caused by the incomplete combustion of diesel and gasoline engines. (smog) Exposure to White Damp will cause headaches and with prolonged exposure, death.
Stink Damp -
Stink Damp consist mainly of hydrogen sulfide.
It has a sweet taste and it smells like rotten eggs. This is a particularly worrying gas in that you will no longer be able to smell it after 2 - 5 minutes. Prolonged exposure can cause respiratory paralysis and death. Hydrogen sulfide can be stirred up by walking through stagnant mud.
These gases are extremely dangerous and can be fatal. All precautions should be taken to avoid them. They are more prevalent in abandoned mines and stagnant drains, or drains that have CSO's (combined sewage overflows). The effect is dramitically worsened if there is poor ventilation. The best precaution is to NEVER enter an area where these gasses could be present. However, if you ignore all common sense, purchasing a Safety Lamp may be a good idea.
Greysand's Respirator safety.
NOTE - This guide is not designed to be the end-all / be-all of respirator safety. It is merely a quick reference aimed primarily at urban explorers. If you find something stated in this guide that sounds wrong you are encouraged to do your own research. If you do find something that is blatantly wrong - please email us with the page where you found the conflicting information and what the conflict was. And - as always - If you feel know more about a subject than we do, please write us and submit your own article.
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There are many different types of respirators. And a unique use's that go along with each type. The main type of respirator that most Urban Explorers should be concerned with are full and half face Air-purifying / negative-pressure respirators. These contain an air-purifying filter, cartridge, or canister that removes specific air contaminants by passing ambient air through the air-purifying element. These are called negative-pressure respirators because air is drawn into the respirator by the suction created when the user inhales.
A word of warning: these masks rely on producing a good seal between the edge of the mask and the wearer's face. This is not possible to achieve if facial hair (e.g.: a beard) is interposed between the mask and the skin. I've found that I can still get a pretty good seal with one or two days beard growth, but not much beyond that. Air leaking in doesn't mean the respirator is useless, but it does mean it wont protect you nearly as effectively.
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Respirators work by using either a chemical or mechanical filtration system. Chemical cartridges use specially treated activated charcoal or other substances that have a high absorption capacity.
Mechanical filters work by physically trapping particulate matter. Unlike chemical filters, mechanical filters become more efficient with use, but make it harder to breathe. Therefore, change them when breathing becomes difficult. Mechanical filter elements provide protection against particulate matter such as dust, mists or metal fumes. Change chemical filters periodically or when the odor of the contaminant is detected. The time to change filters depends on contaminant concentration and breathing rate of the user.
-IMPORTANT!- Air-purifying respirators do NOT supply oxygen and must only be used when there is sufficient oxygen to sustain life. If you go into a low oxygen area wearing a respirator you must not assume that the respirator will help you gather oxygen.
Where to wear your respirator:
A respirator should be worn whenever there is no air filtering system, when in an area that contains masonry / asbestos dust / insulation, welding fumes, toxic gases or Biohazardous materials. Prime examples of these can be found most places that Urban Explorers like to explore. Storm drains and open air sites typically do not require respirators. But for noxious drain gas's, sewage crossovers, or contact with high levels of any type of feces you should wear a respirator. Be careful to monitor your oxygen levels in these areas.
A respirator must be worn when coming in contact with (high levels of) pigeon droppings. There are at least two diseases that can breed within pigeon droppings. These diseases are actually funguses known as Histoplasmosis and Cryptococcus. Both Histoplasmosis and Cryptococcus can cause severe respiratory damage and can be fatal if left untreated. Cryptococcus can also cause inflammation of the brain and its membranes. A full face respirator is highly recommended in additions to gloves.
-Note- If you hang your respirator on a hook for storage, the first breath you take will be weeks of accumulated dust. Delicious. Store your respirators in an ice-cream container or sealable polyethene bag.
The following can be used to compare the features, advantages and limitations of air-purifying cartridges.
Most chemical cartridges / canisters and filters are color coded to reference cartridges to specific applications. Although all manufacturers use some degree of color coding, cartridges from one manufacturer are not interchangeable with cartridges from another manufacturer. (i.e. a 3M cartridge will not fit on a MSA mask) The following are the color codes:
Acid gases - White
Organic vapors - Black
Acid gases and organic vapors - Yellow
Ammonia gas - Green
Highly toxic particulate filter cartridge (HEPA) - Purple / Red
Radioactive materials - Also Purple?
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Recommended Respirators:
MSA (Mine Safety Appliances) makes a number of good quality masks in a number of sizes and styles. They also make a Number of Gas Masks for the US military.
http://www.msanet.com
3M Respirator are reputed to be very good. And as such they tend to command very high prices.
http://www.3m.com/...l/respirators.html
North Safety offers a wide array of cartridges and masks to provide respiratory protection against many industrial air contaminants.
http://www.northsafety.com/airpurif.htm
Where to buy respirators:
In selecting a respirator you should try on as many different respirators as you can in order too find one with a good fit to your face. Personally I prefer a Full Face respirator (MSA Ultra-Twin) that protects my eyes and face as well as my lungs. Full Face respirators also tend to provide a better seal around your face and will result in fewer particles sneaking in around the mask. But if you wear glasses you may want to go with a half face model and safety goggles.
I would recommend a trip to your local monster home / contractor supply store to see what kind of masks / filters you can buy locally. Of more worry is filters, since you will be replacing them on a regular basis. If you do not care for the selection in your local store try shopping online. As odd as it may sound, eBay is a good source of Masks. Many are new and will often cost much less than half of what you would pay in the store.
(I tend to pimp MSA masks pretty hard Since that's what I use, and replacement parts for them are pretty cheap. I think total cost for my MSA Ultra-Twin and 6 canisters came to around $40. USD)
A cheap site for MSA mask parts is:
http://www.cascadesupply.com
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Q & A:
Q) I use a paper dust mask now. Is that good enough to protect me from asbestos or other hazards?
A) The so-called nuisance or comfort masks sold at the hardware store, really don't qualify as respirators. "They're strictly for sweeping the garage or mowing the grass," says Stephen Navarro, a technical service representative for 3M, a respirator manufacturer. Add to that, that the asbestos particles are quite small and while any mask is probably better than no mask, these particles are so small that single-use paper dust masks often do not provide the level of protection needed.
Q) What kind of filter do I need to protect me from Asbestos?
A) Filters for asbestos work MUST be classified as a HEPA filter. Most Fullface and Half masks have HEPA filters available for them. Make certain that the mask has a good fit against your face.
Q) What about Chemical or Organic vapors?
A) Look for filters that have "P100" classifications. You can often find filters that are both HEPA and P100.
Q) What should I look for in buying a respirator?
A) Not all respirators are created equally. First, pick an established and respectable U.S. manufacturer such as MSA (Mine Safety Appliances), North, or 3M. Make certain that you can readily get replacement cartridges for your mask.
Q) Will my old Surplus gas mask protect me from asbestos or other chemical / biological contaminates?
A) While its true (most of the time) that pretty much any mask is better than none. Keep in mind that most older canisters only had a shelf life of 2-3 years, therefore canisters from military surplus stores dating back to the Korean War are next to useless. Newer made cansiters have a longer shelf life. If it fits well, it might protect against asbestos. But it will no longer protect against 100% of chemical / biological contaminates.
Q) I never feel like I am getting enough air when using my respirator. Is it broken, or is it me?
A) I had this problem when I first started using my respirator. Because the respirator relies on you breathing in to filter the air - it makes you work harder to breath in. I have found that I was able to acclimate myself to the mask by wearing it around my house for a few hours or just while I was sitting at the computer for a little while. At home you know the air is safe, and if you start to get claustrophobic you can just whip off the mask and try again in a little while. Aside from it being a little heavy, I hardly notice my respirator anymore. If you still feel like your suffocating - get in the habit of taking one or two really deep breaths through your mouth every few minutes.
Q) I keep getting my hair caught in the straps of my respirator, what should I do?
A) Find a lightweight wool or cotton skull cap. It'll keep you warm, keep the straps from eating your hair, and keep crap out of your hair. Check the seal on your mask to make certain the skull cap isn't interfering and causing air to leak in. However, keep in mind that having your entire head covered does have more of special-ops look to it. And that may not be desirable in certain situations.
I don't mind Drain fog... I like to see what I breathe. |
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Slickis
Noble Donor
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Gender: Male
Rest In Piece Booger 4-6-08
| | Re: Is this a good respirator?
<Reply # 8 on 10/30/2004 8:33 PM >
| | | | This will do what you need it for and you can't beat the price for what you get.
www.galleria-e.com.../en/product/128701
I've been feeling funny since I went in that open crypt. Not sure what it is. |
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